Can you see this too?

[Vamp898]

I hope this is the correct place in the Forum for this thread.



Is it just me, does someone else notices something here?



Is the lowest Resolution and cheapest (below 1000€) APS-C Compact camera beating the sh*t out of it's >2500€ FullFrame SLR competitors?

Look at the green fabric... nothing more to say i think

Even when the Sigma only have 5 Megapixel of green Resolution, still _much_ better results (seems the Foveon Quattro Trick works)

Even at the flat black Surface the difference is clearly noticable

Look at the blue Details, this Micro contrast...

Coming from the SD1 i thought that the reproduction of hairs in the Quattro Sensors is worse, but it's still way better than on any other Bayer camera...

Again, lowest green Resolution, smallest sensor, best resulsts



Looking at this, i can't wait for the sd Quattro H which brings even more Megapixels into the game =)

 

[barrym1966]

I hope this is the correct place in the Forum for this thread.

Is it just me, does someone else notices something here?

Is the lowest Resolution and cheapest (below 1000€) APS-C Compact camera beating the sh*t out of it's >2500€ FullFrame SLR competitors?

Look at the green fabric... nothing more to say i think

Even when the Sigma only have 5 Megapixel of green Resolution, still _much_ better results (seems the Foveon Quattro Trick works)

Even at the flat black Surface the difference is clearly noticable

Look at the blue Details, this Micro contrast...

Coming from the SD1 i thought that the reproduction of hairs in the Quattro Sensors is worse, but it's still way better than on any other Bayer camera...

Again, lowest green Resolution, smallest sensor, best resulsts

Looking at this, i can't wait for the sd Quattro H which brings even more Megapixels into the game =)

looks good although I would like to know what lenses were used on each camera

also if the fullframes were taken at the same distance (to produce the same image) it would probably be a different story. I know the D810 takes much better photos than whats shown in the images

 

[Easy Rider]

Just don't raise your ISO over 400 and you'll be fine.

I was going to get one, but research in the sigma forum showed that for higher ISO than around 400-600 the IQ from Foveon sensors degrades very rapidly.

 

[barrym1966]

Just don't raise your ISO over 400 and you'll be fine.

I was going to get one, but research in the sigma forum showed that for higher ISO than around 400-600 the IQ from Foveon sensors degrades very rapidly.

no use to me then since I shot this weekends church wedding between ISO 5000 and 12k depending which way I was facing

 

[Zone8]

Easy Rider wrote: Just don't raise your ISO over 400 and you'll be fine. I was going to get one, but research in the sigma forum showed that for higher ISO than around 400-600 the IQ from Foveon sensors degrades very rapidly.

no use to me then since I shot this weekends church wedding between ISO 5000 and 12k depending which way I was facing

Strange all this need for high ISO (actually not real - just interpolated inside the camera) as in the past, when using film max 400 ISO (was ASA then), I got perfectly fine shots down a working coal mine in Wales, UK when the only lighting was from the miners' helmet lights. ;-)

I also mostly used film of around 100-160 for weddings and did not use flash inside so as to not interrupt the service.

Regarding the comparisons - clearly the Nikon was not used sensibly - it should easily produce far better quality than the samples. However, the Sigmas (I use them) give excellent quality - and again - I basically use 100 ISO on mine and generally have no problems for the work I prefer to do. If you need high ISO - then choose a system that works for you. That's just common sense but don't expect high quality - so I would query the sort of quality attained for a wedding compared to the highest quality working at more sensible ISO ratings.

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

 

[Chris R-UK]

Just don't raise your ISO over 400 and you'll be fine.

I was going to get one, but research in the sigma forum showed that for higher ISO than around 400-600 the IQ from Foveon sensors degrades very rapidly.

The strength of the Foveon design has always been its resolution and colour reproduction and the weakness of the design has always been high noise at all but the lowest ISO settings.

The Foveon sensor has been around for a ling time now (10-15 years?) and its market penetration has always been tiny.

--
Chris R

 

[Easy Rider]

It's a shame really because I like Sigma products, their lenses are great these days and often same IQ but better value for us that are not making money out of photography.

I'd love to own one of their cameras but like you said not good for more than base ISO and apparently AF isn't ace either.

If you're doing landscapes on a tripod in good daylight though, I've seen stunning results better than say an D810 and with almost that MF 'sense of being there' in the shots.

 

[Vamp898]

Yes, with processing.

I owned an D800E, 5D Mark II and Sony a99 and i can confirm that without any sharpening, Images from Bayer Sensors are almost unusable at 100%.

The Sample Images from dpreview are with 0% sharpening and when i download the RAW-File i can confirm this.

That was the first Thing really blew me away when testing the SD1 for the first time. You make a shot, you develop it (no sharpening, no editing), you go to 100% and BAM, it Looks 100% clear and sharp.

Especially in Terms of Color. You have to take into consideration. The D810 is an 36 Megapixel Camera. That means it does have 18MP Green, 9MP Red and 9MP Blue, if you split it down like that, 36MP doesn't Sound that great anymore.

Especially the Color Resolution is much better on any Sigma, just compare this

SD1 Merrill Original

SD1 Merrill upscaled to 36 Megapixel using GIMP and Lanczos Algorithm

D810 with Default sharpening (sharpening not disabled)

The D810 doesnt have the tiniest Chance against the 15,33 Megapixel APS-C Sensor from the SD1

I have to admit that due to higher birghtness and more Color Saturation, this comparison except for Sharpness/Color Contrast is unfair, but on the D810 you cant really raise the Saturation without making the pink swatch unusable.

For Bayer, Red = Red.



As said, i cant wait to get my Hands on the sd quattro H

 

[Vamp898]

Depends on the Image Quality you want. SPP is optimized for the Noise of the Quattro Sensor and you can quite usable shots up to ISO 1600 without Problems.

The Noise is immense, but the Special noise reduction works quite well without killing the Details.

As 98% of my shots are ISO 100 and 1,9% 200-400 i dont have a sample on the Hand right now, but i made samples with ISO 1600 which Shows that the camera is usable up to this Point.

But the Noise Recution is _that_ Feature that was improved with the new Quattro design. Sigma Claims >1fstop, i'd say exactly 1fstop, depending on the Scene maybe sometimes a bit more, but not much

Oh wait, i have one shot made at ISO 1600 with highest noise reduction applied i think

As you see it kills the Colors, but the result is clean and with a bit of editing the Colors are back



For B/W the camera is usable up to ISO 6400 without Problems btw.

 

[Vamp898]

I made an sample of the dp2 Quattro at ISO 1600 with NR _disabled_

As you can see, it highly depends on the subject you shoot. The NR is quite good, but as all NR Algorithm by far not perfect... it depends on what you Need.

The lack of high ISO was one of the reasons why it took me over an year to Switch to the Sigma SD1, but i then noticed that with a lot of Images i could have used lower ISO without Problems and most of my shots have been at low ISO anyway.

I trained myself to shake less, sounds funny but actually worked. I can shot with the 50mm without OS at situations where it was blurred with the a99 with OS enabled. So it's somethink you can work on.

The Image Quality defenetly was worth it. I sold all my camera Equipment after testing for 9 months and bought lenses for the SD1 with that Money. Never regret it and highly await the sd Quattro which improves the SD1 in all aspects (especially AF, Speed and Noise Performance)

My personal oppinion, just test the Sigma. You will hate it first, wait a week, test it again, you'll still dislike. Test another week and you wont give it out of your hands.

After my first test shots i had some very great shots and some very bad (at high ISO). So i started to hate the Sigma and thought, the Low ISO Quality doesnt worth the downsides.



After that day, all Images i shot with other cameras, i always thought "Wow, wish i had the Sigma now with me, this shot would be perfect for the sensor".

I looked at my very best photos after an session and thought, awesome shots, but i wish i would have done them with the Sigma.



After this happened a few times i knew, i will never be satisfied with the D800E or the a99, i always wished i had the Sigma with me. So i accepted the downsides of the Diva and im happy now



There a easy Girls who are good for a night and there are complicated woman which are the love of your life.

 

[Easy Rider]

I'm starting a 2 year photography MA in Autumn. They have the Sigmas plus Analogue and digital Mamiyas and Hassleblads, so I'll probably skip the Sigmas and dive into MF and LF, but for self ownership, if the high ISO was bit better, and the AF and if there were support from Adobe, the Foveon cameras for self use would be very tempting for me.

 

[Vamp898]

Yeah but even an 50MP MF is still 25MP Green + 12,5MP Red + 12,5MP Blue.

More Pixels doesnt mean better Colors, better Color contrast or something like that. More Pixels just mean bigger Images.

MF is like a mystical word, like a holy grail nobody can ever touch except being rich.

I shoot with several MF (Analoge and Digital) and i was highly disappointed. Except for Noise they are on pair with every other camera, but 10x Price. Thats all. Thats all the Magic.

Some People argue about the DoF which is different as you have to use longer focal lenghts and so more Boke. But common, f/1.4 for an 50mm is already that swallow, that there is so limited use....

If i had to choose between an SD1 and an Hasselblad, i knew my choice.

Color, Contrast, Dynamic, thats what everyone notices first, even on an 10x15cm print. The slight Advantage at ISO 800 is what nobody cares about except the People with mags in front of the Image.

 

[vipkingfun]

The Sigma Dp2 Merrill has been in my possession for a while but it is going back. In other words, I am not going to purchase it. But not because of the image quality. Before I even write one more paragraph I have to say that the image quality of this camera is flat-out amazing when shooting at low ISO with good light. I found it better than the Leica X2, Sony NEX-7, or just about any other comparable camera I have shot with in recent times. Using a 46 Megapixel Foveon Sensor, this Sigma DP2 Merrill is the 1st “DP” model I have seriously considered purchasing. With its 30mm f/2.8 lens that is razor-sharp giving you a 45mm f/2.8 equivalent, it is a perfect match to the sensor inside.

Sigma also has a DP1 Merrill coming that will feature the same insides but with a 19mm f/2.8 lens giving us a 28mm equivalent.

 

[barrym1966]

I made an sample of the dp2 Quattro at ISO 1600 with NR _disabled_

As you can see, it highly depends on the subject you shoot. The NR is quite good, but as all NR Algorithm by far not perfect... it depends on what you Need.

The lack of high ISO was one of the reasons why it took me over an year to Switch to the Sigma SD1, but i then noticed that with a lot of Images i could have used lower ISO without Problems and most of my shots have been at low ISO anyway.

I trained myself to shake less, sounds funny but actually worked. I can shot with the 50mm without OS at situations where it was blurred with the a99 with OS enabled. So it's somethink you can work on.

The Image Quality defenetly was worth it. I sold all my camera Equipment after testing for 9 months and bought lenses for the SD1 with that Money. Never regret it and highly await the sd Quattro which improves the SD1 in all aspects (especially AF, Speed and Noise Performance)

My personal oppinion, just test the Sigma. You will hate it first, wait a week, test it again, you'll still dislike. Test another week and you wont give it out of your hands.

After my first test shots i had some very great shots and some very bad (at high ISO). So i started to hate the Sigma and thought, the Low ISO Quality doesnt worth the downsides.

After that day, all Images i shot with other cameras, i always thought "Wow, wish i had the Sigma now with me, this shot would be perfect for the sensor".

I looked at my very best photos after an session and thought, awesome shots, but i wish i would have done them with the Sigma.

After this happened a few times i knew, i will never be satisfied with the D800E or the a99, i always wished i had the Sigma with me. So i accepted the downsides of the Diva and im happy now

There a easy Girls who are good for a night and there are complicated woman which are the love of your life.

looks like a good camera for everyday outdoor use, certainly no good for inddor/nighttime events photography or the like but looks like a decent holiday camera

 

[WGHalvorsen]

So, the Sigma Dp2 Merrill was a great camera, but you are sending it back?? Please tell us why.

/Bill

 

[Vamp898]

Yeah, as if the most spectacular nature phenomenon happen indoors at night.

When does someone really Need ISO 1600 except for concert photography (which is a very small part of photography and is more like "Money Earning" than actually "Photography")



It might look bright, at this shot, but it actually was quite dark (1/15s, f/11).

With the 17-50mm f/2.8 Handhellt (OS Enabled) it was no Problem at all. This still is ISO 100. There is a Long way to 1600 from here.

Sure there are Moment when ISO 1600 and higher is needed, but how often are These and how many People Need These? With my analoge i never shot over 400 and i made a lot of indoor shots

 

[Vamp898]

One have to accept that while the Image Quality of the DP2 is awesome

Look at 100%, just beautiful

it is not the typical compact camera one might expect. Very low battery life, big RAW-Files (46mb Minimum), can only be processed with Sigma Photo Pro (or you use TIFF Export for further processing) and, of Course, non-interchangable fixed focal length.

It is a camera for those who want best Image Quality over everything. Best Colors, Color contrast, Light, just that. No Speed, or Features or something. It cant even shoot Video.

No Image Stabilisation and the Image Quality is not as good as with the SD1, sadly. Dont know why but most likely because the Sensor is always on (warmer) but im not sure. But i found that the SD1 have better Image Quality than the DP2, even they use the same sensor.

 

[Easy Rider]

The photos yourself and Vamp have posted are lovely. They really to me have that MF or LF feel. You know that feeling you cannot describe but it's like you're looking at the scene for real rather than a photograph of it? They way they render the 3-d space itself and tonal separations etc? gorgeous.

Amazing especially as Vamp's was shot on the 17-50 F2.8. no a bad lens I own it myself but not quite prime quality, yet his shot looks like it was taken on a top end camera with a top end piece of glass on it.

If I had the spare cash and were into landscapes, these shots and the shots I've seen on the Sigma forum of this site would make me get one for sure, large files, slow processing whatever, for these kinds of results in that price range, it's a no brainer.

I'm a street photographer however so not much use to me.

At university I will be doing some studio work and Cityscapes that will be treated like landscapes so I will experiment with digital MF and the Sigma Foveon cameras and see which I prefer before choosing which to do my cityscape shots with. Luckily I will be able to rent them out for free, lucky me!

But yeah those Foveon sensors in good light and lowish ISO beat certainly a D810 for me, there is that 'something special' I wrote about above that you also get when looking at prints from LF film cameras.

 

[Vamp898]

I Never done Street Photography but here a few sample which might tell you what you want to know

These have all been shot spontenious and handhelt... maybe thats at least comparable to street photography

 

[Glen Barrington]

However I am pretty concerned about battery life. and the lack of IS. Are third party batteries available for switching out? I like to shoot wetlands and woods and am frequently gone 8-10 hours at a stretch. I'd hate to have to cut my day short because of battery life.

In your opinion, is this a handheld camera or is it something that really needs a tripod for adequate results? What is the base ISO? And is it adequately fast, in your opinion?

You say that no one supports sigma raw files except the sigma application. Does it come with the camera? or is it an additional purchase?

EDIT: One last thing How useful is it for B&W conversions overall?


A sample of the sort of things I like to do. . .



--
I look good fat, I'm gonna look good old. . .
http://glenbarrington.blogspot.com/
http://glenbarringtonphotos.blogspot.com/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130525321@N05/