D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

Started Jul 1, 2016 | Discussions
MrScrooge Contributing Member • Posts: 746
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

Ooh - that Full SNR button's new!

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 9,762
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 66,609
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

Well, it might be hard for Nikon to use the Renesas line, since it's now owned by Sony. Still, the fab line is of little consequence, so long as it has the capability to fab the design. Nikon's designers have a history of making some pretty good pixels, including the D3s which had a very low read noise relative to pixel size and saturation capacity. They have done decent high density pixels too, for instance the D3200.

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Bob.
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 9,762
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

bobn2 wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

Well, it might be hard for Nikon to use the Renesas line, since it's now owned by Sony. Still, the fab line is of little consequence, so long as it has the capability to fab the design. Nikon's designers have a history of making some pretty good pixels, including the D3s which had a very low read noise relative to pixel size and saturation capacity. They have done decent high density pixels too, for instance the D3200.

They're good sensors but they're very specialized and for non-sports shooters there are better options.  I don't need as much speed so I'm more than satisfied with the image quality coming from the D600.

maico New Member • Posts: 16
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

bobn2 wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

Well, it might be hard for Nikon to use the Renesas line, since it's now owned by Sony. Still, the fab line is of little consequence, so long as it has the capability to fab the design. Nikon's designers have a history of making some pretty good pixels, including the D3s which had a very low read noise relative to pixel size and saturation capacity. They have done decent high density pixels too, for instance the D3200.

Toshiba sensors used in Nikon D7100/7200 switched over to Sony branding in April. What makes you say Renesas is owned by Sony ?

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 66,609
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

maico wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

Well, it might be hard for Nikon to use the Renesas line, since it's now owned by Sony. Still, the fab line is of little consequence, so long as it has the capability to fab the design. Nikon's designers have a history of making some pretty good pixels, including the D3s which had a very low read noise relative to pixel size and saturation capacity. They have done decent high density pixels too, for instance the D3200.

Toshiba sensors used in Nikon D7100/7200 switched over to Sony branding in April.

That's because Sony bought Toshiba's sensor operation.

What makes you say Renesas is owned by Sony ?

I didn't and it isn't. What I said was that Sony bought the Renesas fab line that Nikon used, and they did.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201401/14-0129E/

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Bob.
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 66,609
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark

Negative287 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

whumber wrote:

Negative287 wrote:

Eric Calabros wrote:

Its not first time that their measured number doesn't represent real life performance. in ISO 3200-12800 range, there is only one sensor that performs better than D5: Sony A7s, with %60 less pixels.

Wow that's not true. There are several Sony sensors that perform better than the Sony sensor in the D5 when it comes to DR and noise. D600, D750, D800, D800E, D810, D4, D4s, DF, and D3X.

First, all reports indicate that the D5 sensor is not made by Sony. Second, the D5 beats all of the cameras you've listed in the indicated ISO range. So yes, "Wow that's not true".

No it doesn't, not even the D600! You're wrong about that and I'm not saying the D5 is bad, just not Nikons best in every area even if it is their highest ISO capable body.

Have you even bothered to look at the actual measurements or are you just going by the single number scores?

You measure DR at Base ISO, that's more than 2 full stops! So yes, see the chart below? The Sensor is behind higher MP sensors through ISO 1600 and the 1/2 stop at ISO 3200 or full stop through 6400 can be accounted for with good NR software thanks to the increased resolution. There's no real effective advantage for that Sensor below ISO 25600.

Well look there, turns out the D5 slaughters the D750 and D600 for high ISO.

If it isn't made by Sony then who else has a FF sensor this advanced?

Well Renesas manufactured the sensor in the D4/Df/D4s so that would be a good place to start.

No that was a Nikon Design, there's a difference between manufacturing and designing the sensor. Nikon's thing is a balance of lower resolution to gain advantages in Noise and DR.

I didn't even touch on the fact that images at the highest of ISO settings are pretty much unusable!

Well, it might be hard for Nikon to use the Renesas line, since it's now owned by Sony. Still, the fab line is of little consequence, so long as it has the capability to fab the design. Nikon's designers have a history of making some pretty good pixels, including the D3s which had a very low read noise relative to pixel size and saturation capacity. They have done decent high density pixels too, for instance the D3200.

They're good sensors but they're very specialized and for non-sports shooters there are better options. I don't need as much speed so I'm more than satisfied with the image quality coming from the D600.

No argument from me on that. Nikon's main weakness with respect to sensors seems to be the IP for the ADC.

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Bob.
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?

Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,757
Re: D5 wrongly reviewed by DXOmark
1

If you don't like the result, then use SenScoreas reference! As a D5 user, I really don't care much about these tests.

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