Panasonic G2

Jurre van Wouw wrote:

Loga wrote:

It will be much better, no contest at all. In fact, I think the 'bad' low light performance of the old 12mp sensor is overrated. It's true, that at ISO1600 you can get nasty results sometimes, but it depends on the circumstances as well. However, I found that post-12mp-era cameras rises ISO much quicker than the old ones, and when I reach ISO1600 with my old cam, I am at 2500-3200 with the new one already.

After coming across this old topic again, I have now, years later (and many nice pictures from my G2 (and XZ-1) later ), figured out why:DxO comparison of G2, GH3, GX8

In other words, massive inflation of ISO values; the GX8 says it is at 6400, when in fact it is barely above 3200 (3400). So when comparing in DPR's studio comparison tool, you should basically pick 3200 for the G2 and 6400 for the GX8, and then suddenly the difference is not all that great anymore. Meanwhile, I am planning to purchase another cheap body this year for use with a 45-175 mm or 45-200 mm II (absolutely torn between them, so it'll come down to which one has the lowest price on sale ). The G6 is attractive, but I might just end up buying a second G2 (commonality has its advantages as well). Either way, I am not in a rush to buy a 20MP body; I'd rather spend the money on a 20 mm f1.7 (or even a used 15 mm f1.7 perhaps :D). I'd love to join the IBIS club, but at this point Panasonic IBIS-enabled bodies are simply still too new and expensive for me, and I am still (perhaps even more since my 12-50 mm needed repair shortly after purchase due to a decentered lens element, which took ages) wary of Olympus bodies with their build quality issues. And so the G2 lives on for me!

2 weeks ago I reviewed some of my pictures from 2014, when I just took the marvelous 1.7/20mm and the G2. Viewed on a 2k 24' screen I was amazed by the beauty of these pictures. And of course the 20mm lens is very versatile. However, I am not so convinced of the tele zooms you are looking at. I find the 45-200 v1 rather soft (and the 45-150 as well), but there might be a lot of sample variation. I might not be wrong to consider the Olympus 40-150 as well. Make sure you are able to return them, if you don't like them.

Peter

Yes, sometimes as an alternative to my G80. There is a certain "something" about the pictures from the 12 MP sensor.

Taken two days ago (Helios 44-M).

Taken two days ago (Helios 44-M).

I will still be using my G2 this summer. Did not take much pictures in 2019 and none at all in 2020 (well, except for some utilitarian snapshots with my smartphone), but I am planning to go back out there again this year. I actually looked into replacing the G2 as I was worried about it using old batteries (the newer G series have their own battery types) and therefore even "new" aftermarket batteries being in poor condition due to having been fully drained while sitting on the shelf for years. However, I am still on a very limited budget and I could not find anything that would have been a good replacement for me, even after looking at every system (even old Pentax DSLRs that run on AAs, unfortunately they seem to suffer from electrical issues). The best I could come up with was the E-P1 (since the latest Pen cameras still use the same battery basically) but that would be quite a downgrade in pretty much every aspect.

Luckily, it occurred to me to write Wasabi (the well-known aftermarket battery manufacturer) to see if they could tell me when their BLB-13s were produced. They replied quickly and informed me that their stock was "about a year old"! Of course, they also provide a 3-year warranty. Relieved, I ordered one and I am glad that I will be able to continue enjoying using my (low shutter count) G2 (with which I have been very pleased) for the foreseeable future. It would sure be great to have IBIS, higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and an even nicer EVF, but I will have to wait until those bodies come down in price significantly on the second hand market. For now, the G2 still produces great pictures and I (attempt to) eek out every last drop of performance out of it by shooting RAW and developing using Darktable.

I only had the G1 before moving on to the GX7, but from memory I assume the G2 will share these same drawbacks...

Last year for some nostalgic fun, I decided to take the G1 out for the day. The form factor is wonderful and although 'only' 12mp, the images are super sharp and beautiful colours.

However I tend to shoot a lot of action and was quickly reminded of the shutter lag!!! ... It's certainly not the best action camera that's for sure.

It was a sunny day, so the ISO400 limit was not an issue, however the harsh light quickly revealed it's limited dynamo range.

I really loved using the camera and taking it out for the day was a good lesson. It rapidly brought to the fore my appreciation of what progress has been made and how fortunate we are to have the wonderful cameras that m43 now offers.

PS. Sadly the rubberised finish on the G1 had gone all sticky, however (and I know many will be horrified at this but) rubbing it in custard powder seems to have done the trick and made it feel nice in hand once more

.. No I don't recommend this method, the powder may well work it's way inside.

Of course in terms of DR and ISO limit, the G2 lags behind. The question is how much affects these the quality of the pictures, and this comes down to the use cases. I still use a mighty GF1 (same era and specs as the G2), and I have no intention to replace it any time soon. But my use cases are snapshots of shorter trips / walks, family photos, and a few portraits (not many these days). And the results are mostly very satisfying, at least for me.

A few recent examples:

OOC with 'Natural' preset of the camera

OOC with 'Dynamic' preset of the camera

OOC with 'Natural' preset

'Natural' preset

Tweaked in LR, but as far as I remember from an OOC image

Cheers,

Loga

Adrian Harris wrote:

I only had the G1 before moving on to the GX7, but from memory I assume the G2 will share these same drawbacks...

Last year for some nostalgic fun, I decided to take the G1 out for the day. The form factor is wonderful and although 'only' 12mp, the images are super sharp and beautiful colours.

However I tend to shoot a lot of action and was quickly reminded of the shutter lag!!! ... It's certainly not the best action camera that's for sure.

It was a sunny day, so the ISO400 limit was not an issue, however the harsh light quickly revealed it's limited dynamo range.

I really loved using the camera and taking it out for the day was a good lesson. It rapidly brought to the fore my appreciation of what progress has been made and how fortunate we are to have the wonderful cameras that m43 now offers.

PS. Sadly the rubberised finish on the G1 had gone all sticky, however (and I know many will be horrified at this but) rubbing it in custard powder seems to have done the trick and made it feel nice in hand once more

.. No I don't recommend this method, the powder may well work it's way inside.

Heck, I am still using my G1. In low light and minus 11F (minus 24 C)

F.

Loga wrote:

Of course in terms of DR and ISO limit, the G2 lags behind. The question is how much affects these the quality of the pictures, and this comes down to the use cases. I still use a mighty GF1 (same era and specs as the G2), and I have no intention to replace it any time soon. But my use cases are snapshots of shorter trips / walks, family photos, and a few portraits (not many these days). And the results are mostly very satisfying, at least for me.

Loga

Up until lockdown I was shooting a lot of sport, and the shutter delay on those early Panasonic m43 cameras was just enough to ensure I missed every decisive moment!  I ended up having to predict what someone was going to do and press the shutter early! Previously with my Sony DSLR I could wait and photograph the correct moment.

The Panasonic GX8 arriving was a revelation and regarding speed was on par with any camera for sport.

Adrian Harris wrote:

I only had the G1 before moving on to the GX7, but from memory I assume the G2 will share these same drawbacks...

Last year for some nostalgic fun, I decided to take the G1 out for the day. The form factor is wonderful and although 'only' 12mp, the images are super sharp and beautiful colours.

However I tend to shoot a lot of action and was quickly reminded of the shutter lag!!! ... It's certainly not the best action camera that's for sure.

It was a sunny day, so the ISO400 limit was not an issue, however the harsh light quickly revealed it's limited dynamo range.

I really loved using the camera and taking it out for the day was a good lesson. It rapidly brought to the fore my appreciation of what progress has been made and how fortunate we are to have the wonderful cameras that m43 now offers.

PS. Sadly the rubberised finish on the G1 had gone all sticky, however (and I know many will be horrified at this but) rubbing it in custard powder seems to have done the trick and made it feel nice in hand once more

.. No I don't recommend this method, the powder may well work it's way inside.

Loga wrote:

Of course in terms of DR and ISO limit, the G2 lags behind. The question is how much affects these the quality of the pictures, and this comes down to the use cases. I still use a mighty GF1 (same era and specs as the G2), and I have no intention to replace it any time soon. But my use cases are snapshots of shorter trips / walks, family photos, and a few portraits (not many these days).

This is sad, I remember your admirable  portraits und this forum!

Peter

And the results are mostly very satisfying, at least for me.

A few recent examples:

OOC with 'Dynamic' preset of the camera

Cheers,

Loga

Same

Owen wrote:

Does anyone on the site use their's anymore? Mine has been relegated to the shelf since my GX7.

Owen

Adrian Harris wrote:

Up until lockdown I was shooting a lot of sport, and the shutter delay on those early Panasonic m43 cameras was just enough to ensure I missed every decisive moment! I ended up having to predict what someone was going to do and press the shutter early! Previously with my Sony DSLR I could wait and photograph the correct moment.

The Panasonic GX8 arriving was a revelation and regarding speed was on par with any camera for sport.

That's interesting to read, Adrian. Earlier in this thread I posted a snapshot of a girl laughing. It was taken with a manual focus lens. As I remember I have never had any issues with shutter lag on my GF1/GF2, but I just quickly looked up some test results for the G2 and the GX8. Here is what I found:

GX8

G2

Of course I don't know how accurate these tests are, but base on these, the (prefocused) shutter lag is the same for both. Of course if you use AF, the GX8 will be quicker.

eques wrote:

Loga wrote:

Of course in terms of DR and ISO limit, the G2 lags behind. The question is how much affects these the quality of the pictures, and this comes down to the use cases. I still use a mighty GF1 (same era and specs as the G2), and I have no intention to replace it any time soon. But my use cases are snapshots of shorter trips / walks, family photos, and a few portraits (not many these days).

This is sad, I remember your admirable portraits und this forum!

Peter

Thank you very much for your compliment! I am just a 'causal portrait' photographer, but I am glad if you like those. You may check my webpage to find a small collection of portraits, and also a few street photos.

Cheers,

Loga

Loga wrote:

Adrian Harris wrote:

Up until lockdown I was shooting a lot of sport, and the shutter delay on those early Panasonic m43 cameras was just enough to ensure I missed every decisive moment! I ended up having to predict what someone was going to do and press the shutter early! Previously with my Sony DSLR I could wait and photograph the correct moment.

The Panasonic GX8 arriving was a revelation and regarding speed was on par with any camera for sport.

That's interesting to read, Adrian. Earlier in this thread I posted a snapshot of a girl laughing. It was taken with a manual focus lens. As I remember I have never had any issues with shutter lag on my GF1/GF2, but I just quickly looked up some test results for the G2 and the GX8. Here is what I found:

GX8

G2

Of course I don't know how accurate these tests are, but base on these, the (prefocused) shutter lag is the same for both. Of course if you use AF, the GX8 will be quicker.

Thanks for the links. Reading those figures was a trip down memory lane for sure.

I always used/use autofocus for shooting sports as frequently have no idea where the next piece of exciting action will be.

I had gone from a Sony A100 DSLR to a mirrorless G1, then added a Sony A77 SLT (a truly beautiful camera but very poor at high ISO), to a mirrorless GX7, then the (I still think fabulous) mirrorless GX8.

Other than small pocketable digital compacts from the turn of the century which had horrendous shutter lag, the G1 was the only camera I used which caused me to consistently miss decisive moments.

So I know it was the camera. And as the same lenses were used on the gx7 and gx8, it wasn't those lenses causing the delay.

Studying shutter lag became a serious pastime I can tell you

Of course the issue was only milliseconds and it could have been being caused by EVF lag (which I don't recall being measured in those tests) and also they may well have sped up the G2 .. The G1 was their very first after all?

Adrian Harris wrote:

Loga wrote:

Adrian Harris wrote:

Up until lockdown I was shooting a lot of sport, and the shutter delay on those early Panasonic m43 cameras was just enough to ensure I missed every decisive moment! I ended up having to predict what someone was going to do and press the shutter early! Previously with my Sony DSLR I could wait and photograph the correct moment.

The Panasonic GX8 arriving was a revelation and regarding speed was on par with any camera for sport.

That's interesting to read, Adrian. Earlier in this thread I posted a snapshot of a girl laughing. It was taken with a manual focus lens. As I remember I have never had any issues with shutter lag on my GF1/GF2, but I just quickly looked up some test results for the G2 and the GX8. Here is what I found:

GX8

G2

Of course I don't know how accurate these tests are, but base on these, the (prefocused) shutter lag is the same for both. Of course if you use AF, the GX8 will be quicker.

Thanks for the links. Reading those figures was a trip down memory lane for sure.

I always used/use autofocus for shooting sports as frequently have no idea where the next piece of exciting action will be.

I had gone from a Sony A100 DSLR to a mirrorless G1, then added a Sony A77 SLT (a truly beautiful camera but very poor at high ISO), to a mirrorless GX7, then the (I still think fabulous) mirrorless GX8.

Other than small pocketable digital compacts from the turn of the century which had horrendous shutter lag, the G1 was the only camera I used which caused me to consistently miss decisive moments.

So I know it was the camera. And as the same lenses were used on the gx7 and gx8, it wasn't those lenses causing the delay.

Studying shutter lag became a serious pastime I can tell you

Of course the issue was only milliseconds and it could have been being caused by EVF lag (which I don't recall being measured in those tests) and also they may well have sped up the G2 .. The G1 was their very first after all?

Oh, I see, so we are talking about two different cameras here The G1 was the very first indeed, and it has a bit worseshutter lag results , than the G2. But as you wrote, you always use autofocus for that use case, so the differences become obvious between a G1 and a GX8.

Yes, this is the Loga I remember!

Beautiful pictures, outstanding composition.

All the best, Peter

eques wrote:

Yes, this is the Loga I remember!

Beautiful pictures, outstanding composition.

All the best, Peter

You exaggerate, but thank you very much!

I love my G2, After a decade of FZ Panasonics, I bought a second hand G2, and was delighted with it, every thing I needed and more, sadly it let me down, the screen packed a sad. Fortunately I spotted one with a 45 200 Oly lens on trade me, very cheap, I think I was the only bidder,

so now I own a broken G2, A good G2, and for luck a G10, What more could I ask for?  The only downside is my aging eyes and perhaps a slipping memory, can't blame the camera for that.  I am not a pixel peeper, nor do I make huge prints, raw is for the experts and I am not scared of using digital zoom,  I keep my eye on camera progress and reckon the G9  or others may have better auto functions and fester shutter speeds, I can manage without the modern technology, having fun and getting nice pictures is all I need.