Samsung EX2F - size does matter!

Okay so I have 3 APS-C and one FF body - so why would I want to purchase a camera that gives me less IQ? Size and weight perhaps?

Well I've had quite a few small sensor cameras over the years and despite their drawbacks for which I sold them all I miss the little blighters! I've had the LX5, GRD 3 and GRD 4, Nikon 1 J1 and V1. I've dallied in m43 camp too with the G1, GH2, GF1, GF3, GF7 and EPL5. All eventually sold so I could focus on my favored format which is APS-C.

Size and weight, whilst nice - it's not what I really miss. My Coolpix A and NX500 are both as small and light as I need. What I miss is the sheer simplicity of shooting with a sensor that has such a vast DOF. There's also some advantages to a fixed lens body. No wondering which lens to use. Silent shooting. Having a lens designed specifically for that body rather than for a system or a mount. Getting to know intimately how that lens performs best.

I'd been watching the Panasonic LX7 for some time and nearly bit the bullet a few times but I kept changing my mind at the last. Will I use it? Is it just another toy to use for a few weeks and then never use again? I was also watching the Nikon J5 and I couldn't make my mind up about which sensor size I would be happiest with. The upcoming Nikon DL cameras had me drooling. Anyway. I heard good reports about the EX2F and thought it might be different enough from the LX7 to be worth considering. Got one £130 and now it's time to find out if I made the right choice.

My first quick street shoot. I say quick because my home town centre takes about 5 mins to walk round and it's not the easiest environment to be candid in. People really notice cameras here and it takes a little more courage to shoot than in say a city environment. I shot in A mode and autoISO. I used the AF to focus about 10ft away and switched to manual focus. Stopped the aperture down a little and then was all set. All I then had to do was be wary of exposure and adjust exposure compensation now and then.

Here's some of the best shots taken that day.

Am I happy with my purchase? In a nutshell, yes. Ergonomics and UI are very good. It's a bit quirky in some ways. No RAW for continuous shooting. Quite slow shot to shot times. I expect the LX7 could beat it regarding performance but I think the EX2F has the edge in other ways. That rear articulated screen is lush. The dial on the handgrip which you can push in to adjust exposure comp - I find that placement spot on. The shutter button has a nice feel. The magnesium body feels really solid. I think this camera will be around for a while and I will use it. Maybe when the Nikon DL's are available I'll start thinking about a change but I'll try and hold off until they drop some in price. VFM is key with me though I can sometimes get carried away and spend too much.

That second photo.. Not the most flattering but I guess that's Street photography for you!

markyboy81 wrote:

That second photo.. Not the most flattering but I guess that's Street photography for you!

It's all in the eye of the beholder but I take your point. I tend to shoot people who stand out from the ordinary. Not always though. Sometimes I just shoot anyone and everyone who comes my way and then back home I find myself hitting the delete button over and over. So I try and be more selective. Sometimes it's not the person that catches my eye. It could be their expression or behavior and sometimes their clothing. Sometimes it's the exceptional light, or the background.

My choices over what I put up are also very personal. I guess they say something about me, or what interests me. You can gauge this on Flickr when sometimes you post say 4 pics and all the interest is around what I thought was the worst shot. Photography, like all art is very Fickle..

Krazyheaven wrote:

markyboy81 wrote:

That second photo.. Not the most flattering but I guess that's Street photography for you!

The horrors of smoking. It's actually an incredible shot.

Every time I see black and white shots I wonder about the color that was there that day.

I like to shoot street in color but find color street is often overlooked. B&w still rules for street photography it seems. I'm easy. I switch between the two as the mood takes me. I suppose b&w is a little like a vignette in that it curtails distractions and forces you to pay more attention to the subject.

Why would you consider the LX3 when you have the EX2?

Of course the LX7 is a bit more refined but not significant enough to differentiate it  , IMO.

Veducci wrote:

Why would you consider the LX3 when you have the EX2?

I wouldn't.

Of course the LX7 is a bit more refined but not significant enough to differentiate it , IMO.

I'm happy with my choice and it's nice to have a small sensor camera back in my collection.

The EX2F is one of those cameras that should have received much more (and better) press than it did when first announced.  I have the LX7, along with the Nikon P7700, P330, Olympus XZ-1, and the Fuji X10, X20, X30, and X-S1.  You could say I'm an enthusiast camera junkie as I stumble through life trying to find the best overall advanced compact camera.

Having said that, I was completely taken aback at the wonderful BSI sensor in that EX2F, along with the dynamic colors, option sets, and high-performance factors of this camera.  The EX2 is a keeper and it will stay in my collection.  In fact, prior to getting the EX2F, I never even considered Samsung cameras at all (I associated them with consumer products only).  After acquiring a new EX2F however, it opened my eyes to the entire Samsung camera line and I subsequently got hooked on various NX system cameras.  Of course, now I'm a combination of frustrated/p-i-s-s-ed off/depressed over Samsung leaving the camera market, especially given what they were capable of producing.

So keep that baby in your bag and for others who might have thought about getting one, they're more difficult to find now (and some vendors are gouging the prices on them).  But if you do get one, you'll be rewarded with exceptional imagery with regards to comparisons to other enthusiast camera lines.

norman shearer wrote:

Nice shots.

What I miss is the sheer simplicity of shooting with a sensor that has such a vast DOF.

What I miss is reasonable control over DOF.  I have an LX100 and an EX2F.  I haven't touched the EX2F once since I got the LX100.  There is no downside to the extra DOF control.  Step down if you want.  Pleasant bokeh for portraits.  Also, you can click-away in continuous RAW with several shots per second and the buffer never fills.

Only advantage for EX2F is tiltable rear display.  But the EVF is a big plus for LX100.

I know they are in different price categories, but the form factor is very close, so a comparison is fair if price is not in the calculation.

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

Nice shots.

What I miss is the sheer simplicity of shooting with a sensor that has such a vast DOF.

What I miss is reasonable control over DOF. I have an LX100 and an EX2F. I haven't touched the EX2F once since I got the LX100. There is no downside to the extra DOF control. Step down if you want. Pleasant bokeh for portraits. Also, you can click-away in continuous RAW with several shots per second and the buffer never fills.

I should have been clearer. What I mean is that vast DOF available with the lens wide open. There is indeed a downside to bigger sensors in this respect. Try shooting street at ISO 80 with a FF sensor to see it. There's a saying 'F8 and be there' which comes from zone focusing with FF cameras. You need F8 in order to get a zone big enough to get a reasonable amount of keepers.

With the EX2F sensor I can 'F2 and be there' if you see my point. This means I can claw back much of the percieved ISO advantages a larger sensor gives.

Point taken about the buffer and continuous shooting. However it does force you to be more discriminating if you know you only have one shot!

Only advantage for EX2F is tiltable rear display. But the EVF is a big plus for LX100.

Yes the LX100 has a lot going for it for general shooting. With regard to street work, maybe not so much better. Swings and roundabouts in some respects.

I know they are in different price categories, but the form factor is very close, so a comparison is fair if price is not in the calculation.

Yes. If money was of little consequence it would be in the mix. I think I would be spoilt for choice if I ignored the cost. Nikon DL's, Sony RX's etc.

Ben Herrmann wrote:

The EX2F is one of those cameras that should have received much more (and better) press than it did when first announced. I have the LX7, along with the Nikon P7700, P330, Olympus XZ-1, and the Fuji X10, X20, X30, and X-S1. You could say I'm an enthusiast camera junkie as I stumble through life trying to find the best overall advanced compact camera.

Having said that, I was completely taken aback at the wonderful BSI sensor in that EX2F, along with the dynamic colors, option sets, and high-performance factors of this camera. The EX2 is a keeper and it will stay in my collection. In fact, prior to getting the EX2F, I never even considered Samsung cameras at all (I associated them with consumer products only). After acquiring a new EX2F however, it opened my eyes to the entire Samsung camera line and I subsequently got hooked on various NX system cameras. Of course, now I'm a combination of frustrated/p-i-s-s-ed off/depressed over Samsung leaving the camera market, especially given what they were capable of producing.

So keep that baby in your bag and for others who might have thought about getting one, they're more difficult to find now (and some vendors are gouging the prices on them). But if you do get one, you'll be rewarded with exceptional imagery with regards to comparisons to other enthusiast camera lines.

Hi Ben,

I've heard conflicting views regarding the EX2F and LX7 image quality. Not unlike Sony A6000 and NX500. I knew firsthand that the NX500 trounced the A6000 though so I could well believe the BSI sensor in the EX2F beats the LX7.

I did notice that in Ebay completed listings the EX2F price jumps all over the place. I think the price I payed is roughly in the middle. The LX7 on the other hand tends to be settled and generally quite a bit higher in price. The EX2F is a sleeper for sure.

norman shearer wrote:

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

Nice shots.

What I miss is the sheer simplicity of shooting with a sensor that has such a vast DOF.

What I miss is reasonable control over DOF. I have an LX100 and an EX2F. I haven't touched the EX2F once since I got the LX100. There is no downside to the extra DOF control. Step down if you want. Pleasant bokeh for portraits. Also, you can click-away in continuous RAW with several shots per second and the buffer never fills.

I should have been clearer. What I mean is that vast DOF available with the lens wide open. There is indeed a downside to bigger sensors in this respect. Try shooting street at ISO 80 with a FF sensor to see it. There's a saying 'F8 and be there' which comes from zone focusing with FF cameras. You need F8 in order to get a zone big enough to get a reasonable amount of keepers.

Again: "Step down if you want." There is no intrinsic disadvantage to going to a bigger sensor (with the same normalized SNR). I'm not a big-sensor zealot, but the main advantage of a smaller sensor is NOT wider DOF, since you can ALWAYS stop down the bigger sensor/lens without sacrificing any image quality. The main advantage of a smaller sensor SHOULD BE a smaller and cheaper lens/camera system. If you ALWAYS stop down your FF camera to shoot street, then you might as well get a smaller-sensor/lens/camera. But I certainly don't ALWAYS stop down and LIKE narrower DOF when called for.  Since LX100 is about the same size, the only disadvantage is price (and other ergonomics). There is no image quality penalty in stopping down, and only extra opportunity for when you want narrower DOF!

Here's a shot of my wife's father and a friend of his. (No lightroom work yet... I think I can recover the highlights in the back and lighten their faces a bit, and I cut off a hand, but...) No way could I have pulled this off without the extra 2-stops in effective aperture of LX100 over EX2F. I'm not knocking EX2F. I loved mine and had it with me for a summer month in Paris 2 summers ago. But, again money aside for the moment, it doesn't hold a candle to LX100. If you could get an EX2F for a couple hundred bucks and that was your budget, I'd say "go for it". But even the responsiveness (no waiting for buffer to clear) is worth it for me. (Sorry, I'm not an LX100 zealot either... it doesn't hold a candle to my NX300+30mm, but they are different tools for different scenarios)

...is that they are almost always subjective, and no two folks can agree. I don't know - maybe it's just me - but I'm able to coax superb IQ levels out of any camera I touch. The biggest "attractor" to me is how a camera renders color tonality. I can accept quite a few other issues, but if the IQ and color tonality at right on (and I'm no slouch when it comes to standards regarding IQ), I'll jump on a camera in a heart beat.

Having said that, both the LX7 and EX2F are really nice cameras - but the EX2F (IMO) bests the former at cleaner higher ISO scenarios, better DR (which I found remarkable, BTW), along with a rich color tonality. Remember, I have both cameras. I mainly keep my LX7 set on 16 x 9 image ratio so I can capture wide angled scenics and it pretty much stays there (but then it becomes just 9 MP's). Since the lens speeds are similar between the LX7 and EX2F, I won't comment on that. However, the body style (and ergonomics) IMO, feels better (subjective) in my hand than the LX7. Although I cherish both cameras,  in the end, I'd have to give a huge nod (and edge) to the EX2F

As I said in my initial reply to you above, the problem with cameras such as the EX2F which did not receive much notice (or press for that matter) upon being released is that once forgotten, folks arbitrarily discount their effectiveness or IQ when the discussion comes up.  They almost always then use comparisons to C, N, P, S cameras and somehow discount the forgotten models. I venture to say (and again, I only comment on cameras I've used) that the EX2F is one of the finest enthusiast models released. Unless my mind changes, I've never been keen on Sony cameras in general. I just never warmed up to their way of rendering colors - but again, that's being purely subjective. Although I must say that the A7 R II is a camera (if I could afford it) that I'd like to get my paws on.

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

Nice shots.

What I miss is the sheer simplicity of shooting with a sensor that has such a vast DOF.

What I miss is reasonable control over DOF. I have an LX100 and an EX2F. I haven't touched the EX2F once since I got the LX100. There is no downside to the extra DOF control. Step down if you want. Pleasant bokeh for portraits. Also, you can click-away in continuous RAW with several shots per second and the buffer never fills.

I should have been clearer. What I mean is that vast DOF available with the lens wide open. There is indeed a downside to bigger sensors in this respect. Try shooting street at ISO 80 with a FF sensor to see it. There's a saying 'F8 and be there' which comes from zone focusing with FF cameras. You need F8 in order to get a zone big enough to get a reasonable amount of keepers.

Again: "Step down if you want." There is no intrinsic disadvantage to going to a bigger sensor (with the same normalized SNR). I'm not a big-sensor zealot, but the main advantage of a smaller sensor is NOT wider DOF, since you can ALWAYS stop down the bigger sensor/lens without sacrificing any image quality. The main advantage of a smaller sensor SHOULD BE a smaller and cheaper lens/camera system. If you ALWAYS stop down your FF camera to shoot street, then you might as well get a smaller-sensor/lens/camera. But I certainly don't ALWAYS stop down and LIKE narrower DOF when called for. Since LX100 is about the same size, the only disadvantage is price (and other ergonomics). There is no image quality penalty in stopping down, and only extra opportunity for when you want narrower DOF!

I know what you are saying and for general photography you are correct in most respects. Stepping down either entails raising ISO or dropping in shutter speed. The street work I do is mostly around 1/400s or faster. So with FF you are upping ISO and losing ground on that superior dynamic range and noise.

I guess they more or less cancel each other out. With the EX2F I can be at ISO 80 and shoot street. With bigger sensors I need to raise the ISO but they have a bigger dynamic range to begin with so I can afford to lose some and can crop more etc.

So all things being equal you have no advantage. Providing you have a good handle on DOF and can calculate what you get or need. With small sensor you don't even have to think about it. So you could say that a smaller sensor removes some of the complexity and frees your mind to focus on events to shoot. The bigger the sensor means you have to be a little more mindful of the camera settings - if you want a similar keeper rate.

Same is true if you shoot street with wide angle lenses. The wider they are the less you have to think about when it comes to DOF and the easier it is to shoot blindly from the chest. I've tried doing it with a 50mm lens opened up using an APS-C sensor and it requires much more precision and you have to really know your focus zone.

That's partly why many people make such a fuss about autoISO implementation. It's all about removing the need for user input so you can focus on the shooting and the timing of the shot.

Here's a shot of my wife's father and a friend of his.

Nice shot. The hair is a tad oof. With the EX2F it would not be an issue. 

norman shearer wrote:

Here's a shot of my wife's father and a friend of his.

Nice shot. The hair is a tad oof. With the EX2F it would not be an issue.

Touche. I guess I could have stopped down if I'd wanted. But then the background isolation would not have been as good. FWIW, according to the EXIF data, it was f/2.6 at 47mm equiv. I don't remember exactly what max aperture on LX100 is at 47m equiv, but I *think* I *was* stopped down at least a little bit

(but it was pretty darn close to wide open http://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/9166939407/images/Equiv_Ap.png

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

Here's a shot of my wife's father and a friend of his.

Nice shot. The hair is a tad oof. With the EX2F it would not be an issue.

Touche. I guess I could have stopped down if I'd wanted. But then the background isolation would not have been as good. FWIW, according to the EXIF data, it was f/2.6 at 47mm equiv. I don't remember exactly what max aperture on LX100 is at 47m equiv, but I *think* I *was* stopped down at least a little bit

(but it was pretty darn close to wide open http://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/9166939407/images/Equiv_Ap.png

I don't really know if the hair is oof, I was just kidding! 

I see you have an NX300. When I was after a backup NX500 and not finding one at a decent price I did consider the NX300 might fill the role. Nearly bit the bullet on one and then a bargain Coolpix A came along instead.

I know. I can't stick my Samsung lenses on the Coolpix A if my NX500 breaks but at least I'll have a small silent street shooter that can fill that role. Still it would leave me with a bunch of Samsung lenses and no body to use them on. Gawd - I hate dilemmas. I'll probably end up watching NX300 prices and snagging one at some point..

norman shearer wrote:

shademaster wrote:

norman shearer wrote:

Here's a shot of my wife's father and a friend of his.

Nice shot. The hair is a tad oof. With the EX2F it would not be an issue.

Touche. I guess I could have stopped down if I'd wanted. But then the background isolation would not have been as good. FWIW, according to the EXIF data, it was f/2.6 at 47mm equiv. I don't remember exactly what max aperture on LX100 is at 47m equiv, but I *think* I *was* stopped down at least a little bit

(but it was pretty darn close to wide open http://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/9166939407/images/Equiv_Ap.png

I don't really know if the hair is oof, I was just kidding!

I see you have an NX300. When I was after a backup NX500 and not finding one at a decent price I did consider the NX300 might fill the role. Nearly bit the bullet on one and then a bargain Coolpix A came along instead.

I know. I can't stick my Samsung lenses on the Coolpix A if my NX500 breaks but at least I'll have a small silent street shooter that can fill that role. Still it would leave me with a bunch of Samsung lenses and no body to use them on. Gawd - I hate dilemmas. I'll probably end up watching NX300 prices and snagging one at some point..

Yep, the samsung stuff isn't getting any cheaper.  I should have gotten an NX1 when there was the firesale at B&H.  Now they're back up (if available at all).  Oh, well. 
PS It's hard for me to go back to the NX300 after LX100 due
to...

the...

processing....

processing...

processing...

when shooting RAW bursts.  But I am still always happy with anything I shoot with the NX 30mm.