Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

Started Jun 21, 2016 | Discussions
Marco Cinnirella
Marco Cinnirella Veteran Member • Posts: 7,691
Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

So just how common is this an issue (trapped dust in lens mechanism or on sensor) ? I can't get a feel from forums whether this has affected many LX100s or just a minority? And how exactly it impacts IQ ?

I found a store with a decently priced used LX100 but this is a picture they posted - does it look like trapped dust inside this lens?

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,192
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?
4

The publicity has been damaging. I would not buy a LX100 for this reason. Have Panasonic ever made a statement on the issue?

furfoots Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

The only way to test for dust is to take a picture of a white wall @ F11. My LX100 has a couple of dust specs too.

Bangers and Mash
Bangers and Mash Veteran Member • Posts: 3,000
Re: Consensus? Widespread.

Greynerd wrote:

The publicity has been damaging. I would not buy a LX100 for this reason. Have Panasonic ever made a statement on the issue?

I agree. I was excited when I purchased mine. It's a pretty decent camera, but for this issue. My first one had dust and hair. I sent it back for another one and so far it is fine. But I'm sorry I bought the thing now. It just sits in the bag and I've gone back to using my Oly EM5. Besides, the EM5 a much better camera anyway. If I can sell my LX100, I will. The camera has left a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm somewhat reluctant to use it anymore because of concern for more dust. As much as it is a good camera feature wise, no matter the settings, you can't crop much without getting a lot of grain/noise. If dust problems come up in the future it goes to the bottom of the lake. I'm serious. I've never developed such disdain for a camera as I have for this one. Like I said, it sits in my bag. My wife can use it if she wants, and if she uses it and dust arrives; Lake here I come.

I know some are going to comment on my post and say how great a camera it is and that I'm crazy for how I feel about it. Don't waste your time. No amount of kindly persuasion will change my mind.

I also put the blame on Panasonic. They know/knew about the issue, and just turn their heads. Personally they should have have put out a recall notice like the automobile industry does, and don't tell me they can't afford to.

Yes, I'm one p___d off LX100 owner.

Wayne

Edit: I bought the LX100 as a walk around camera. My camera of choice now . . . my new iPhone 6s+. Yes, believe it or not. It takes great images, and it slides nicely in my pocket. I wouldn't have believed it before. I used to scoff at people using their smartphones as cameras, but now I know why. You can do so much with it. Sure you can't create images like a decent camera, that's what I use my EM5 for, but for walking around and having ease of use, you can't beat it. What I like about the new iPhone; it has a touch screen that focuses very fast and also exposes on that same area. You can even lock focus and exposure. Yep, it be my walk around camera.

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pda4you Senior Member • Posts: 1,617
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?
4

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

So just how common is this an issue (trapped dust in lens mechanism or on sensor) ? I can't get a feel from forums whether this has affected many LX100s or just a minority? And how exactly it impacts IQ ?

Dust is a fact with any zoom lens especially these fixed power zooms.  ALL lenses suck in dust.  Since the lens is fixed on this body that can be a bit of an issue.

But with that said - dust in the lens itself makes little if any IQ difference.  Dust on the sensor can be an issue as you stop the lens down and have very consistent light backgrounds.

If you post process - it is easy to take care of dust spots that may appear.

So while I get folks who upset about dust.  Some gear is worse than others.  Dust in the lens - a non issue.  Dust on the sensor is an issue, but it can be cleaned.  It is too bad manufactures can't "solve" this but it is hard as the lens must both suck and blow air.  There isn't a good way around that as the elements move inside the lens itself.

Most make far more of an issue than it really causes.  And remember it all can be cleaned, at a cost.  It can also be dealt with in post, especially if minor.

Mike

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,192
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

pda4you wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

So just how common is this an issue (trapped dust in lens mechanism or on sensor) ? I can't get a feel from forums whether this has affected many LX100s or just a minority? And how exactly it impacts IQ ?

Dust is a fact with any zoom lens especially these fixed power zooms. ALL lenses suck in dust. Since the lens is fixed on this body that can be a bit of an issue.

But with that said - dust in the lens itself makes little if any IQ difference. Dust on the sensor can be an issue as you stop the lens down and have very consistent light backgrounds.

If you post process - it is easy to take care of dust spots that may appear.

So while I get folks who upset about dust. Some gear is worse than others. Dust in the lens - a non issue. Dust on the sensor is an issue, but it can be cleaned. It is too bad manufactures can't "solve" this but it is hard as the lens must both suck and blow air. There isn't a good way around that as the elements move inside the lens itself.

Most make far more of an issue than it really causes. And remember it all can be cleaned, at a cost. It can also be dealt with in post, especially if minor.

Mike

I am sure they could put a filter in the body, sensor shaker and a replaceable sticky pad. I cannot believe this camera dust issue could not have been resolved in some way.

Whether it is an actual issue is not really relevant because once it is perceived as an issue and a make gets a reputation it will have adverse effects.

I find my Fuji XT-10 and f2.8-4 18-55 on an accessible aps-c sensor does the job like a LX100 with a shutter speed and on lens aperture dial so probably better value, but not compact I admit and not so wide angle. Worth thinking about if you like the LX100 non mode dial control system which always appealed to me.

old jim
old jim Veteran Member • Posts: 4,907
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

A question that will be answered with prejudice, from those who have, or have not had this problem. I am, at least temporarily, in the latter category :-). Reality is that most fixed lens Zooms are vulnerable to this problem. Air comes in and goes out and dust gets where we don't want it. Some have removed it with self help, others have had it fixed by Panasonic, and some use the dust removal tool in PP. There are also others who will not notice they have it:-) Ignorance can be bliss/blessing sometimes. From the length of time the LX100 has been out, the number of copies sold, and the number of complaints posted, I don't think it will be discontinued. However, it would be nice, for me, if they had a weather resistant version like the FZ300. Maybe the FZ200???

Who knows! Warmest regards,

p.s. I don't believe an external examination is reliable. Take the picture, as was suggested. Evidence will be clear! IMHO of course

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Bangers and Mash
Bangers and Mash Veteran Member • Posts: 3,000
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is? Jim

old jim wrote:

A question that will be answered with prejudice, from those who have, or have not had this problem. I am, at least temporarily, in the latter category :-). Reality is that most fixed lens Zooms are vulnerable to this problem. Air comes in and goes out and dust gets where we don't want it. Some have removed it with self help, others have had it fixed by Panasonic, and some use the dust removal tool in PP. There are also others who will not notice they have it:-) Ignorance can be bliss/blessing sometimes. From the length of time the LX100 has been out, the number of copies sold, and the number of complaints posted, I don't think it will be discontinued. However, it would be nice, for me, if they had a weather resistant version like the FZ300. Maybe the FZ200???

That Jim is the only answer to this issue. I won't keep blabbering on about my issue with the LX100, but from now on if ever I purchases a fixed zoom lens camera again, it will have to be one that is dust proof. It would seem to be the only way to avoid this problem. Shame Panasonic didn't do that, and it's a shame, considering the issue, Panasonic hasn't come up with a way to resolve this on the LX100. Simply designing a seal to prevent dust from entering. I would gladly send my camera back to them and have that installed, even if it is an out of pocket expense for the part.

Hello Jim

Regards

Wayne

Who knows! Warmest regards,

p.s. I don't believe an external examination is reliable. Take the picture, as was suggested. Evidence will be clear! IMHO of course

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Jack Brandt217
Jack Brandt217 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,826
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?
1

I think I'm in the "Ignorance is Bliss" category. I haven't noticed a problem with mine.

Jack

pda4you Senior Member • Posts: 1,617
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

Greynerd wrote:

I am sure they could put a filter in the body, sensor shaker and a replaceable sticky pad. I cannot believe this camera dust issue could not have been resolved in some way.

Yes sensor shakers have been around for a while, but at the end of the day not sure how much good they especially with large particles.

Whether it is an actual issue is not really relevant because once it is perceived as an issue and a make gets a reputation it will have adverse effects.

Check.  It is amazing that the TINY minority of people who go on photography forums and churn up issue after issue, real or not is funny to me.  For the most part folks in internet forums just love controversy.

I find my Fuji XT-10 and f2.8-4 18-55 on an accessible aps-c sensor does the job like a LX100 with a shutter speed and on lens aperture dial so probably better value, but not compact I admit and not so wide angle. Worth thinking about if you like the LX100 non mode dial control system which always appealed to me.

I found my Fuji X-E2 a joy to use and shoot with.  Fuji glass is brilliant.  What SUCKS about Fuji is their menu systems and their Bayer processor and post processing.  I just never got the results I wanted.  After fussing for hours, I rarely achieved what Fuji did, directly with the in camera JPG processor.

So I left Fuji - for a reason...

Mike

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Jon_T
Jon_T Veteran Member • Posts: 4,387
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

pda4you wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

So just how common is this an issue (trapped dust in lens mechanism or on sensor) ? I can't get a feel from forums whether this has affected many LX100s or just a minority? And how exactly it impacts IQ ?

Dust is a fact with any zoom lens especially these fixed power zooms. ALL lenses suck in dust. Since the lens is fixed on this body that can be a bit of an issue....

True, however the technology/ knowledge been around for years to provide a zoom lens with dust and splashproofing resistance -- i.e., higher-end DSLR's lenses. My old Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 (2008) was used in dusty conditions and never had any dust intrusion.

For the LX100 being an "Enthusiast" type camera and for its initial price, no logical reason why LX100 not to have the same dust and moisture resistance as the older Sony RX10.

Cheers,
Jon

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yellodog Senior Member • Posts: 2,270
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

No problems, but on the other hand I'm not the kind who shoots the sky or white washed walls a f 16. I've never had a need to go smaller than f 5.6 and f 4.0 is the sweet spot.

M H S
M H S Contributing Member • Posts: 733
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?
1

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

So just how common is this an issue (trapped dust in lens mechanism or on sensor) ? I can't get a feel from forums whether this has affected many LX100s or just a minority? And how exactly it impacts IQ ?

I found a store with a decently priced used LX100 but this is a picture they posted - does it look like trapped dust inside this lens?

No problems with the LX100 after many thousand shots, and lots of travel, beach time, coat pocket time, etc..

However, I did have dust on the sensor of my Sony rx100 mark ii after only a few months of use.  That drove me crazy. I eventually had it serviced and cleaned, but dust reappeared quickly.

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David Lozoya Contributing Member • Posts: 842
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

Fingers crossed we have not seen any dust to date. I bought it used from B&H and has worked beautifully...love this little gem. It is what it is - a small 4/3 wonder. We took it to the Caribbean a few weeks ago on the beach...no issues.

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curiosifly Senior Member • Posts: 1,190
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

furfoots wrote:

The only way to test for dust is to take a picture of a white wall @ F11. My LX100 has a couple of dust specs too.

Do you see the impact from dusts in regular shots? I haven't noticed dust on mine yet but I've never tried to test it using a white background, besides I seldom shoot at f11 or above. I guess, I am not willing to test because if I know it is there, I'll get discouraged when using it even if it does not make any real life difference.

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Castaway
Castaway Veteran Member • Posts: 4,603
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

Hi Marco.

Had the camera since it came out. No problems.

There, you have now had 13 answers with only one report of dust in the LX100. A similar survey recently didn't significantly come up with reports of dust.

You have also received one report of dust in a Sony camera. If you do a search in other forums including DSLRs you will find reports of dust on the sensor.

Yes you can get dust on the sensor of the LX100 but not more so than with other cameras.

Yes you have heard it frequently here mostly from one or two people who tend to bring it up at every opportunity.

My recommendation is to get the camera, one of the most enjoyable. If getting it second hand check it out very carefully. Personally I wouldn't get any camera second hand.

Good luck

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Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,555
The LX100 Lens extend / retracts too often.
6

I just got a LX100 myself but coming from Canon Powershots I can tell you that the LX100 extend/retract the lens much more often than the Canon P&S which could contribute to a higher rate of dust gathering inside the lens.

For instance, with a Powershot if I just want to see some pictures I just hit the Play button the camera will turn on but just in Play Mode, so the Lens & Sensor remain inactive. Whereas with the LX100 you have to first turn on the Camera, the Lens extends and Sensor on, then you can hit Play to see pictures, a bit later the Lens will retract back.

It doesn't help that when taking pictures the lens retract too soon if you spend more than 1 minute or so in the Play mode. Then is another extra extension adding up.

I think Panasonic needs to think seriously about how to avoid unnecessary lens extensions. Is not just the dust, but the battery, the lens motors and the time it takes.

I hope, there is a setting buried somewhere to fix this, but so far, can't find it.

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AndreasBraun
AndreasBraun Contributing Member • Posts: 723
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

Castaway wrote:

Hi Marco.

Had the camera since it came out. No problems.

There, you have now had 13 answers with only one report of dust in the LX100. A similar survey recently didn't significantly come up with reports of dust.

You have also received one report of dust in a Sony camera. If you do a search in other forums including DSLRs you will find reports of dust on the sensor.

Yes you can get dust on the sensor of the LX100 but not more so than with other cameras.

Yes you have heard it frequently here mostly from one or two people who tend to bring it up at every opportunity.

My recommendation is to get the camera, one of the most enjoyable. If getting it second hand check it out very carefully. Personally I wouldn't get any camera second hand.

Good luck

That's indeed the only way to look at it: statistically. We often have posters with a real or perceived problem who answer every question asking about this problem. This behaviour does indeed generate the impression that the problem is 1. well known, 2. very widespread, and 3. should have been taken care by the manufacturer long ago.

The reality is different: the LX100/D-Lux (109) has been sold many, many times. If the problem would be really common the discussions would have been very pronounced - which they are not.

Andreas

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xi5
xi5 Contributing Member • Posts: 848
Re: Consensus on how widespread LX100 sensor/lens dust issue is?

You could use Google to get an estimate of actual complaints on this site (or change to "dust lens"): LX100 dust on sensor site:dpreview.com

And could also replace dpreview.com with other site(s) or internet search in general.

I don't doubt there are people who have this issue and understand why they would be upset...but it must be a low number of voices heard comparative to owners worldwide/with or without the problem.

Keep in mind the "1% rule":

"...the 1% rule is a rule of thumb pertaining to participation in an internet community, stating that only 1% of the users of a website actively create new content, while the other 99% of the participants only lurk."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)

Also:

Canon Powershot dust on sensor site:dpreview.com

Sony Cybershot dust on sensor site:dpreview.com

Jon_T
Jon_T Veteran Member • Posts: 4,387
Re: The LX100 Lens extend / retracts too often.

Photato wrote:

I just got a LX100 myself but coming from Canon Powershots I can tell you that the LX100 extend/retract the lens much more often than the Canon P&S which could contribute to a higher rate of dust gathering inside the lens.

For instance, with a Powershot if I just want to see some pictures I just hit the Play button the camera will turn on but just in Play Mode, so the Lens & Sensor remain inactive....

Maybe Pany is addressing this with newer models?

Like the Canon PowerShots the ZS50 allows you to press and hold the "Play" button and will turn on camera without extending the lens to view images taken. When finished viewing images press the power button to turn camera off, or press the Play button to extend lens for taking pictures.

Cheers,
Jon

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