Focus stacking: E-M1 with Oly 60 macro

gardenersassistant wrote:

Lester, thank you. Terrific investigation, explanation and presentation.

Almagest wrote:

Thanks Lester,

After looking at other websites with regard to Olympus focus bracketing along with your extensive research confirms (in my mind) that both Olympus and Panasonic use very similar algorithms for focus bracketing.

At least now, I have a better foundation to base my experiments on.

Tanks again...

Warren

Warren, since you are using a G80, have you tried using post-focus to capture images for stacking? I know you only get 4K resolution but if you haven't tried it you might want to give it ago. You might want to see these two threads where I went into this with the FZ330. The success I had with botanical subjects in particular (hand-held btw, and just look and shoot, no calculations needed) is why I am on this forum now, suddenly finding myself very interested in the G80 (because that would give me better base images, captured both at 4K with post-focus as well as full resolution with focus bracketing, which I think may turn out to be better for invertebrates - can't tell without trying it).

Seven stacked botanical close-ups

More on Post-focus focus stacking

Hi Nick,

I started using post focus stacking when I first got my G7 last year, I had to do the stacking manually because the G7 couldn't do the stacking in-camera. The 8mp results are really good IMO and even better now with the G85, as the stacking can be done in-camera.

But the lure of full resolution images using focus bracketing is very enticing, but the manual provided little to no info on how to use it. But I'm slowly getting to hang of it...

G85 Focus Bracketing with 1 Step and 30 shots, stacked using Affinity Photo

I still need more practice, but at least I'm on the right track...

Your 4K post focus shots are very good, congratulations!

Warren

Almagest wrote:

Hi Nick,

I started using post focus stacking when I first got my G7 last year, I had to do the stacking manually because the G7 couldn't do the stacking in-camera. The 8mp results are really good IMO and even better now with the G85, as the stacking can be done in-camera.

But the lure of full resolution images using focus bracketing is very enticing, but the manual provided little to no info on how to use it. But I'm slowly getting to hang of it...

G85 Focus Bracketing with 1 Step and 30 shots, stacked using Affinity Photo

I still need more practice, but at least I'm on the right track...

A bit further on than that I think. The knife worked out well.

How fast does it capture the images? One of the issues I found with post-focus was the time (and the unpredictability of the time) it took to capture the images, from  40 or so to over 200, which at 30fps can take seven seconds. That's a long time to be hand-holding, and a long time for a the breeze to hold off and not blow a plant around, and a long time for an insect to not move. I'm hoping that with focus bracketing I can capture perhaps 10 or 20 shots and that this  could be done a lot faster than a post-focus capture even though the shots are full resolution.

Your 4K post focus shots are very good, congratulations!

Thanks.

Warren

gardenersassistant wrote:

Almagest wrote:

Hi Nick,

I started using post focus stacking when I first got my G7 last year, I had to do the stacking manually because the G7 couldn't do the stacking in-camera. The 8mp results are really good IMO and even better now with the G85, as the stacking can be done in-camera.

But the lure of full resolution images using focus bracketing is very enticing, but the manual provided little to no info on how to use it. But I'm slowly getting to hang of it...

G85 Focus Bracketing with 1 Step and 30 shots, stacked using Affinity Photo

I still need more practice, but at least I'm on the right track...

A bit further on than that I think. The knife worked out well.

How fast does it capture the images? One of the issues I found with post-focus was the time (and the unpredictability of the time) it took to capture the images, from 40 or so to over 200, which at 30fps can take seven seconds. That's a long time to be hand-holding, and a long time for a the breeze to hold off and not blow a plant around, and a long time for an insect to not move. I'm hoping that with focus bracketing I can capture perhaps 10 or 20 shots and that this could be done a lot faster than a post-focus capture even though the shots are full resolution.

Your 4K post focus shots are very good, congratulations!

Thanks.

Warren

That's the conundrum, it appears that focus bracketing has many variables associated with it. The number of "steps" 1-10, the number of "images chosen", the focal length of the lens, the lens aperture chosen, the shutter speed chosen, depth of focus required for everything you want to be in focus.

The image of the knives required 30 shots using step #1 @ f/8, I had to use iso 3200 because I was indoors. I have no idea what settings I would have use if I were outdoors and wanted to do a landscape shot with everything from 3 feet to infinity in focus, or say a flower 20 feet away and a focus range of 5 inches.

So yes, I've got a lot experimentation to do before I could say I know what I'm doing.

At this point I do think that any focus bracket shot would require a tripod. That why I'm glad that the G85 has both types of stacking available to the user. Post focus 4K stacking is doable handheld especially with dual IS-2 lenses.

Since the G85 gave me no clue for how to use bracket focus I started here...

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/09/04/using-focus-bracketing-on-the-olympus-om-d-e-m10-ii/

Copied from the above website...

Depending on the number of subjects in the shot, your distance from the subject, how much of the subject you want to capture, and your chosen f-stop, the number of shots and the focus differential required will vary. Knowing which values to choose is really a matter of trial and error, though experimentation and experience will help you make an educated guess. Generally speaking, you’ll need more shots if:

• there are many subjects in your composition at varying distances from the lens
• you are very close to your subject
• you want to cover a wide depth of field
• you are using a fast aperture

And this...
http://extreme-macro.co.uk/focus-stacking/

http://www.duford.com/2016/07/using-focus-bracketing-on-olympus-om-d-cameras/

Good luck...

Warren

Almagest wrote:

That's the conundrum, it appears that focus bracketing has many variables associated with it. The number of "steps" 1-10, the number of "images chosen", the focal length of the lens, the lens aperture chosen, the shutter speed chosen, depth of focus required for everything you want to be in focus.

The image of the knives required 30 shots using step #1 @ f/8, I had to use iso 3200 because I was indoors. I have no idea what settings I would have use if I were outdoors and wanted to do a landscape shot with everything from 3 feet to infinity in focus, or say a flower 20 feet away and a focus range of 5 inches.

So yes, I've got a lot experimentation to do before I could say I know what I'm doing.

Understood. I've been doing a lot of that myself.

At this point I do think that any focus bracket shot would require a tripod. That why I'm glad that the G85 has both types of stacking available to the user. Post focus 4K stacking is doable handheld especially with dual IS-2 lenses.

I've certainly found 4K post-focus capture doable hand-held, at some surprisingly low shutter speeds too. Two of those flowers I linked to were 1/60 sec with hands/camera completely unsupported, and with some support - hands on desk or hands on thighs while kneeling - I have gone right down to the minimum possible for post-focus, 1/30 sec, which was the case for example for a couple of the examples in the other linked thread.

I still don't understand why such slow shutter speeds worked hand-held - these were all close-ups after all, and some were probably macros (depending on how you like to define that). But since they did work, I'm wondering why focus bracketing wouldn't work hand-held.

Since the G85 gave me no clue for how to use bracket focus I started here...

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/09/04/using-focus-bracketing-on-the-olympus-om-d-e-m10-ii/

Copied from the above website...

Depending on the number of subjects in the shot, your distance from the subject, how much of the subject you want to capture, and your chosen f-stop, the number of shots and the focus differential required will vary. Knowing which values to choose is really a matter of trial and error, though experimentation and experience will help you make an educated guess. Generally speaking, you’ll need more shots if:

• there are many subjects in your composition at varying distances from the lens
• you are very close to your subject
• you want to cover a wide depth of field
• you are using a fast aperture

And this...
http://extreme-macro.co.uk/focus-stacking/

http://www.duford.com/2016/07/using-focus-bracketing-on-olympus-om-d-cameras/

Good luck...

Warren

Thanks for the links. I shall read them with great interest.

One of the really nice things I like about using post-focus is that I don't have to think about how many shots and what differential to use. All I have to do is to watch where the focus points light up during the capture and adjust the distance if they aren't falling appropriately and try again.