G-series vs other Powershots - IQ comparison for beginners

FIL is looking for my advice on a new camera. I'm a Nikon DSLR user, and I love my D7100. But I've had great luck with Canon p&s back in the day, and I know the in-laws like Canon more. So I have a few questions for the DPR experts about the differences between them.

They are mainly looking for a camera for family pictures and the FIL wants a quality camera for pictures of the homes he's remodeling so he can eventually build a gallery for his website. Budget is definitely <$400, but preferably <$250, meaning the G9 and G16 are probably the only G-series models in consideration. A huge zoom range isn't desired or necessary. It's really a question of how big the IQ differences are between the two lineups.

When reading Canon specs on sensor size, does 1/1.7" mean (1/1.7*25.4) = 14.94mm? Assuming so, that's a nice step up from entry-level p&s, but still a good bit smaller than even the APS-C/DX sensor size for DSLRs.

I'm mainly comparing the following models:

G9 - $429 - 25mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 125-12,800, 28-84mm FL

G16 - $379 - 15mm sensor, 12MP, ISO 100-12,800, 28-140mm FL

S120 - $449 - 15mm sensor, 12MP, ISO 80-12,800, 28-140mm FL, touch screen

Elph 170 IS - $109 - 11mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 80-1,600, 25-300mm FL

Elph 350 HS - $159 - 11mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 80-3,200, 25-300mm FL

Is the main difference between the expensive ones and the Elph series going to be in low light, or are they going to take noticeably better pictures all the time? Seems to me like the Elph might not be appreciably different quality than a smartphone, but you do get the zoom capability. Are there other models I should be looking at?  What would your recommendation be?

patriot07 wrote:

When reading Canon specs on sensor size, does 1/1.7" mean (1/1.7*25.4) = 14.94mm? Assuming so, that's a nice step up from entry-level p&s, but still a good bit smaller than even the APS-C/DX sensor size for DSLRs.

Unfortunately, all sensor sizes other than FF are quite a bit smaller than what their name seems to imply. 1/1.7" sensors are actually only 7.6 x 5.7 mm i.e. 9.5 mm diagonally = 0.37 inch instead of 1/1.7" = 0.59".

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format#Common_image_sensor_formats

Is the main difference between the expensive ones and the Elph series going to be in low light, or are they going to take noticeably better pictures all the time?

You can compare image quality for many cameras on this site: https://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM (click on "all cameras" at the top for the older ones).

When comparing different models, keep in mind that a slower lens makes the camera select a higher ISO sooner - but I'm sure you knew that.

Mark9473 wrote:

patriot07 wrote:

When reading Canon specs on sensor size, does 1/1.7" mean (1/1.7*25.4) = 14.94mm? Assuming so, that's a nice step up from entry-level p&s, but still a good bit smaller than even the APS-C/DX sensor size for DSLRs.

Unfortunately, all sensor sizes other than FF are quite a bit smaller than what their name seems to imply. 1/1.7" sensors are actually only 7.6 x 5.7 mm i.e. 9.5 mm diagonally = 0.37 inch instead of 1/1.7" = 0.59".

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format#Common_image_sensor_formats

Is the main difference between the expensive ones and the Elph series going to be in low light, or are they going to take noticeably better pictures all the time?

You can compare image quality for many cameras on this site: https://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM (click on "all cameras" at the top for the older ones).

When comparing different models, keep in mind that a slower lens makes the camera select a higher ISO sooner - but I'm sure you knew that.

Thanks for the reply.  To your last point - do p&s cameras suffer from the same degradation in sharpness wide open as DSLRs do?

Not used to looking at aperture as a "camera" feature.  Thanks for mentioning it.

Most, if not all, small sensor cameras are designed to work best with the lens wide open. I'm sure the image is degraded, but when stopping down the increased diffraction degrades it even more. It's only with sensors 1" or larger that there is sometimes an advantage to stopping down.

Steen Bay wrote:

patriot07 wrote:

When reading Canon specs on sensor size, does 1/1.7" mean (1/1.7*25.4) = 14.94mm? Assuming so, that's a nice step up from entry-level p&s, but still a good bit smaller than even the APS-C/DX sensor size for DSLRs.

A so-called 1/1.7" sensor is only app. 7.5 x 5.6mm. Take a look here :

http://www.dpreview.com/glossary/camera-system/sensor-sizes

The sizes are not 100% correct, but close enough.

Thanks!  Looks like the G9 has a decent size sensor.  The rest are all fairly small.

If the interior shots are well lit, you should be fine with any decent camera. Lighting and post processing are going to be more important than the camera, assuming you start with something decent... S120, g16, g7x. Any of these will be more than up to the task.

patriot07 wrote:

Looks like the G9 has a decent size sensor. The rest are all fairly small.

Could it be you mean the G9X? The G9 is a 2007 camera with a 1/1.7" sensor like its current successor the G16.

damian5000 wrote:

If the interior shots are well lit, you should be fine with any decent camera. Lighting and post processing are going to be more important than the camera, assuming you start with something decent... S120, g16, g7x. Any of these will be more than up to the task.

There will be no pp or external lighting. Does that change your opinion?

Mark9473 wrote:

patriot07 wrote:

Looks like the G9 has a decent size sensor. The rest are all fairly small.

Could it be you mean the G9X? The G9 is a 2007 camera with a 1/1.7" sensor like its current successor the G16.

Yes, G9X

patriot07 wrote:

FIL is looking for my advice on a new camera. I'm a Nikon DSLR user, and I love my D7100. But I've had great luck with Canon p&s back in the day, and I know the in-laws like Canon more. So I have a few questions for the DPR experts about the differences between them.

They are mainly looking for a camera for family pictures and the FIL wants a quality camera for pictures of the homes he's remodeling so he can eventually build a gallery for his website. Budget is definitely <$400, but preferably <$250, meaning the G9 and G16 are probably the only G-series models in consideration.

Go to the Canon USA Store at shop.usa.canon.com. Use the menu to find the refurbished Powershots. I have purchased a number of "refurb'ed" items and never had them look less than brand new. Enter the code "LUCKYCHARM" to get 15% off refurbs. Stick with the "1 inch" sensor cameras. IMHO, I would purchase either the G7X for ~ $450 w/ discount. If you can't swing that, get the G16 for $265. I would stay away from the ELPHs.

I'm mainly comparing the following models:

G9 - $429 - 25mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 125-12,800, 28-84mm FL

G16 - $379 - 15mm sensor, 12MP, ISO 100-12,800, 28-140mm FL

S120 - $449 - 15mm sensor, 12MP, ISO 80-12,800, 28-140mm FL, touch screen

Elph 170 IS - $109 - 11mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 80-1,600, 25-300mm FL

Elph 350 HS - $159 - 11mm sensor, 20MP, ISO 80-3,200, 25-300mm FL

Is the main difference between the expensive ones and the Elph series going to be in low light, or are they going to take noticeably better pictures all the time? Seems to me like the Elph might not be appreciably different quality than a smartphone, but you do get the zoom capability. Are there other models I should be looking at? What would your recommendation be?

Hello.

I´ll try to answer most of your answers as I am long term Powershot user and now/few times EOS user...

If you go with compact cam, G series will give you more in terms of image quality. Lighting is crucial. So while I´d say "you´re lost If you don´t do your lighting", every bit of camera performance can help here, and G series with faster lenses will help here. Also these are a bit sharper.

P&S cameras suffer from the same problems of DSLR lenses, but these problems are masked by being in trouble and past the edge of diffractions and stuff at every settings. You just pick if you want your image more diffraction limited or abberation/glowing limited. From mud to sh....

Powershot G cameras are better stopped down a notch, but some others are better wide open. You really need to know details about the particular camera you´re about to buy.

My reccomendation?

1) For this money, you can find some basic DSLR with kit lens. I´d go that way. And I´d order Youngnuo flash too.

2) Then, there is EOS M. Can be found cheap, and is even more compact than basic DSLRs, and it has APS-C sensor. With kit lens, or with 22mm prime pancake, it can do serious SERIOUS job too

3) Olympus XZ-2. It´s obsolete, but it´s very good camera. If you find this one, I´d recommend it.

4) Powershot G7X.

5) Powershot G9X

6th choice after you discart even G9X -  Forget it, go have some good lunch with your relatives instead of buying camera

patriot07 wrote:

damian5000 wrote:

If the interior shots are well lit, you should be fine with any decent camera. Lighting and post processing are going to be more important than the camera, assuming you start with something decent... S120, g16, g7x. Any of these will be more than up to the task.

There will be no pp or external lighting. Does that change your opinion?

That will depend on the natural light if it's indoor shots. If low light, then the 1" or bigger sensor is probably what you want... Though at typical web sizes, the difference may not tell.

If well lit, then sensor size won't matter much, if at all...

No offense, but to not PP shots for professional portfolio or anything other than social sharing/casual shots would be foolish and shoddy.

I don't mean need to shoot RAW and labor over the images for hours, generally curves/levels/brightness/exposure/saturation and unsharp mask will do wonders.

damian5000 wrote:

patriot07 wrote:

damian5000 wrote:

If the interior shots are well lit, you should be fine with any decent camera. Lighting and post processing are going to be more important than the camera, assuming you start with something decent... S120, g16, g7x. Any of these will be more than up to the task.

There will be no pp or external lighting. Does that change your opinion?

That will depend on the natural light if it's indoor shots. If low light, then the 1" or bigger sensor is probably what you want... Though at typical web sizes, the difference may not tell.

If well lit, then sensor size won't matter much, if at all...

No offense, but to not PP shots for professional portfolio or anything other than social sharing/casual shots would be foolish and shoddy.

I don't mean need to shoot RAW and labor over the images for hours, generally curves/levels/brightness/exposure/saturation and unsharp mask will do wonders.

You're preaching to the choir. I have a D7100 and am not shy about using Lightroom. But it's just not going to happen with the FIL. He's looking to take pictures that are less blurry and grainy. Agree with you, but I'm just being realistic.

crashpc wrote:

Hello.

I´ll try to answer most of your answers as I am long term Powershot user and now/few times EOS user...

If you go with compact cam, G series will give you more in terms of image quality. Lighting is crucial. So while I´d say "you´re lost If you don´t do your lighting", every bit of camera performance can help here, and G series with faster lenses will help here. Also these are a bit sharper.

P&S cameras suffer from the same problems of DSLR lenses, but these problems are masked by being in trouble and past the edge of diffractions and stuff at every settings. You just pick if you want your image more diffraction limited or abberation/glowing limited. From mud to sh....

Powershot G cameras are better stopped down a notch, but some others are better wide open. You really need to know details about the particular camera you´re about to buy.

My reccomendation?

1) For this money, you can find some basic DSLR with kit lens. I´d go that way. And I´d order Youngnuo flash too.

2) Then, there is EOS M. Can be found cheap, and is even more compact than basic DSLRs, and it has APS-C sensor. With kit lens, or with 22mm prime pancake, it can do serious SERIOUS job too

3) Olympus XZ-2. It´s obsolete, but it´s very good camera. If you find this one, I´d recommend it.

4) Powershot G7X.

5) Powershot G9X

6th choice after you discart even G9X - Forget it, go have some good lunch with your relatives instead of buying camera

Thanks!

I think you mean G9x

You can compare the first 3 cameras here. The last 2 are not available for comparison.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_g9x&attr13_1=canon_s120&attr13_2=canon_g16&attr13_3=canon_sx60hs&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=125&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0&y=0

This will give you an excellent idea of IQ.  You can pic different parts of the test image and different ISO's.

The last 2 cameras are high zoom, smaller sensor, and will have lower IQ compared to the first three.