EPL6 & Shutter Shock - explain it to me like I'm a 10-year old

Is the bottom line that I should just turn IBIS off, use the quick shutter menu option and that the 1/8 second delay setting has nothing to do with addressing this? My lens collection is listed in my profile.

Thanks.

Jsara --

Guy offers an excellent summary of measures available to counter SS and their consequences.  And forgive me for presuming that you are the slightest bit interested in the reaction of a whizzened old guy to all this.

But . . . Avoid shooting from 1/30 to 1/320?  EXCUSE ME!  Those are the three most valuable and common stops of shutter speed that most of us reflexively use.  So that is a really big deal.  Basically the only way to comply is to drive the ISO from, say, 400 to 3200 . . . which is obviously not so nice to image quality on a small m4/3 sensor.

It is worse with some lenses than others and even holding technique seems to matter.  If you have the problem --  and you will not want to hear this -- but the final answer is to choose a newer m4/3 body (like, say, the PL7 if you like that form factor) that has a feature like "zero shutter", EFCS, etc, which, i am happy to say, effectively eliminates the problem.

I had the problem with a couple of Panny bodies.  It was very very frustrating to try and reliably get a sharp shot and in early m4/3 days we didn't understand that much about it.  I shoot a PL7 now, and an EM5 (which only has the 1/8 shutter function) that do not seem to exhibit it.

I would generally say that the "keepers" from the EPL6 have been excellent.  The low-light handheld stuff tends to be dicey, but that's generally the case with nearly every camera.  
Thanks for the responses.

Guy Parsons wrote:

jsaras wrote:

Is the bottom line that I should just turn IBIS off, use the quick shutter menu option and that the 1/8 second delay setting has nothing to do with addressing this? My lens collection is listed in my profile.

Thanks.

The E-PL5/6 cameras use the original 2 axis IBIS which is quite unlike the newer 3/5 axis IBIS. So step 1 for general image clarity is to leave IBIS off until proven to be really needed, mainly because the 2 axis IBIS actually adds a tiny amount of blur.

Or use Panasonic lenses with OIS and switch on the OIS via the lens switch or if unswitched then use Lens IS Priority On plus IBIS On - they then work out between them who is in control and only one will work at a time.

The 1/8 second anti-shock delay does seem to help a little with shock issues, it certainly makes for a better sounding shutter action but adds that delay, so needs timed anticipation if shooting action.

Shock can occur in the shutter speed range maybe 1/30 sec to 1/320 sec so one way is to strenuously avoid that speed range if you are seeing shock often. It generally depends on the lens choice, some lenses seem to be worse than others where shock is concerned.

If you never see the shock or never notice it then all is good. If it is seen it is most easily detected on bright edges where a distinct double edge happens usually displaced in a near vertical direction, or sideways if taking a portrait orientated shot. That is different to 2 axis IBIS blur which can be a general tiny softening of the image.

Try lots of shots at say 1/125 second to see if you get the effect happening. I can do it reliably with the 75-300m at 300mm on a heavy tripod and remotely released......

Four shots in a row shown at 200% to see what the consistency of the effect is, the image at full screen has just a general blur. Here the crops show the bright edges and bright spots of corrosion with the distinct double image shift, this time in a 45 degree up to the right direction. If same done hand-held then the shock effect varies from nearly none to about 4 times this displacement.

Regards.... Guy

Sounds like mostly a problem with the longer lenses?

I haven't seen any SS then again the I use shutter speeds between 2 sec - 1/30 sec and then between 1/1000 sec - 1/4000 sec - nothing in between (shutter priority mode or full manual mode.)

Guy Parsons wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

..... I'll try and find an old accidental shot that distinctly shows the blur that the old 2 axis IBIS can add. ....

Accidentally stumbled on this discarded image while looking for something else, reduced size whole frame accident while playing with 9mm fisheye B&W one night with 1/8 second exposure....

Sydney and Harbour Bridge from Kirribilli, with a bit of shake

And now a crop......

The gross wobbles on the light traces are caused by me moving the camera, the high frequency wobble to the overall trace is caused by the E-PL5 2 axis IBIS. That high frequency wobble can cause a softening of a normal image, so best to try and leave 2 axis IBIS off as much as humanly possible.

Ah, I feel better now that I found it and completed the thread.

Regards.... Guy

eeeek, ever try IR photography on that camera, Guy?  It looks like a B&W IR shot!  I keep the IS on, I haven't seen that kind of issue either- and I want to do 2 sec exposures handheld.

gear1box wrote:

Jsara --

Guy offers an excellent summary of measures available to counter SS and their consequences. And forgive me for presuming that you are the slightest bit interested in the reaction of a whizzened old guy to all this.

But . . . Avoid shooting from 1/30 to 1/320? EXCUSE ME! Those are the three most valuable and common stops of shutter speed that most of us reflexively use. So that is a really big deal. Basically the only way to comply is to drive the ISO from, say, 400 to 3200 . . . which is obviously not so nice to image quality on a small m4/3 sensor.

It is worse with some lenses than others and even holding technique seems to matter. If you have the problem -- and you will not want to hear this -- but the final answer is to choose a newer m4/3 body (like, say, the PL7 if you like that form factor) that has a feature like "zero shutter", EFCS, etc, which, i am happy to say, effectively eliminates the problem.

I had the problem with a couple of Panny bodies. It was very very frustrating to try and reliably get a sharp shot and in early m4/3 days we didn't understand that much about it. I shoot a PL7 now, and an EM5 (which only has the 1/8 shutter function) that do not seem to exhibit it.

It depends man, I don't use those shutter speeds, really on any of my cameras, SS or not.  I use S priority or M mode, and all my shooting is either really low light (stars, milky way, etc) or very bright light.  I dont shoot when it's cloudy, because it looks yucky when it's cloudy anyway and I dont shoot anything indoors.  I use shutter speeds between 2 sec - 1/30 sec and 1/1000 sec - 1/4000 sec.

What lenses do you see the issue with? I use the 1/8 sec shutter delay on my E-PL6.  I wasn't aware that the quick release option helps keep the SS down, does it?

Guy Parsons wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

..... I'll try and find an old accidental shot that distinctly shows the blur that the old 2 axis IBIS can add. ....

Accidentally stumbled on this discarded image while looking for something else, reduced size whole frame accident while playing with 9mm fisheye B&W one night with 1/8 second exposure....

Sydney and Harbour Bridge from Kirribilli, with a bit of shake

And now a crop......

The gross wobbles on the light traces are caused by me moving the camera, the high frequency wobble to the overall trace is caused by the E-PL5 2 axis IBIS. That high frequency wobble can cause a softening of a normal image, so best to try and leave 2 axis IBIS off as much as humanly possible.

Ah, I feel better now that I found it and completed the thread.

Regards.... Guy

Fortunately I've not encountered anything remotely like this with my humble setup.

Guy Parsons wrote:

alexisgreat wrote:

eeeek, ever try IR photography on that camera, Guy?

Not on that one, tried briefly on E-PL1 with varying results but not really interested in shots that are not more or less like reality.

It looks like a B&W IR shot! I keep the IS on, I haven't seen that kind of issue either

It was 100% rubbish shot at ISO 25600 with the 9mm f/8.0 fisheye, but when I went to delete it I saw those wobbles to the traces. That ties in exactly with the CRO traces of CrisPhoto's thread http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53456685 where the E-PM2 traces show the same wobble.

- and I want to do 2 sec exposures handheld.

For that you really need a device called a tripod.

Regards.... Guy

those shots look like they were taken during an earthquake, Guy I bet someone could make a horror movie with them lol.

lol about the tripod, I would use that for longer shutter speeds than that, I've gotten fairly good at holding the camera steady up to 2 sec- I'm getting 1 out 5 (avg) at that speed.

Guy Parsons wrote:

alexisgreat wrote

Sounds like mostly a problem with the longer lenses?

Not really, can happen at any focal length, but longer lenses may reveal the effect more readily. Some lenses are worse than others maybe due to movable elements inside them being shocked.

I haven't seen any SS then again the I use shutter speeds between 2 sec - 1/30 sec and then between 1/1000 sec - 1/4000 sec - nothing in between (shutter priority mode or full manual mode.)

If you strenuously avoid the problem shutter speeds then all is good.

The problem goes away completely with fully electronic shutter operation, but of course introduces new problems. Also 0 sec anti-shock pretty much totally fixes it as well.

Regards.... Guy

I was playing around with an idea in my head about how to permanently fix this problem and not need a shutter at all, is there some way to send an electrical signal to the sensor to turn it "on" for the exposure, and then to turn it "off" to complete the exposure- this would avoid needing a mechanical shutter at all and the issue of actuations and shutter wear.  I think astronomical ccd cameras use this method.