Please Mr Nikon, no video

Started Jan 13, 2016 | Discussions
Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 3,941
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

Thank you for making my point. There are always people like yourself that feel compelled to ridicule anyone that asks for features, or lack of features, in a camera if it doesn't measure up to what YOU want. Never accept something being on the market if it doesn't conform to your standards. Should people in hot climates wear heavy coats because that's what the people in cold climates need? It makes just as much sense.

lanefAU
lanefAU Veteran Member • Posts: 6,348
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video
3

Nikon must be shaking its head.  Are you aware, even professionals use DSLR Video now? If you don't like it fine, just don't use it. Same as auto on my camera, I never use it, but I am not going get worked up about it.

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inasir1971
inasir1971 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,705
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video
1

seoulsurvivor wrote:

j_photo wrote:

It's the Df.

Or, just ignore the video record button on your camera.

I do ignore the video button. I have it remapped to ISO on my D750. My fear though is that if Nikon did produce a standard DSLR style body without video (not DF form factor) it would probably go for the same price or similar to a body with video. I would only entertain the idea of no video if there was a distinct price advantage or if it added a feature or two to replace the lack of video which would justify a high price.

Video doesn't cost anything in terms of hardware if you have liveview. On the other hand a separate low volume model will cost significantly more (think D810A)

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Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 3,941
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

lanefAU wrote:

Nikon must be shaking its head. Are you aware, even professionals use DSLR Video now? If you don't like it fine, just don't use it. Same as auto on my camera, I never use it, but I am not going get worked up about it.

The Df has been on the market quite a while now, with no drop in price and certainly not pulled from production. I suspect rather than shaking its head, Nikon is smiling all the way to the bank.

lanefAU
lanefAU Veteran Member • Posts: 6,348
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video
2

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

lanefAU wrote:

Nikon must be shaking its head. Are you aware, even professionals use DSLR Video now? If you don't like it fine, just don't use it. Same as auto on my camera, I never use it, but I am not going get worked up about it.

The Df has been on the market quite a while now, with no drop in price and certainly not pulled from production. I suspect rather than shaking its head, Nikon is smiling all the way to the bank.

You know what they say? One swallow does not make a summer. I am sure there are many Nikon gear that are holding their price as well.

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Jay Paul H Regular Member • Posts: 372
Re: Please Mr Nikon, don't listen to him. I love my video!

tektrader wrote:

seoulsurvivor wrote:

Yes, I'm sure you love your video and I can appreciate how it is a major plus for many, but at least give us a choice.....that's all I'm suggesting.

Don't you already have a choice not to use it ?

Leave it off and Nikon restricts its customer base. Nikon would then have to make 2 products to address the market.... Seems pretty straight forward.......Include it...

Add it in and those that don't want it, don't use it.

If you don't ever want to see it, maybe what they should do is include a "HIDE" option so that all the video features disappear.....

That is a GREAT idea! It could possibly be accomplished with an optional firmware upgrade.

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KSV Veteran Member • Posts: 3,351
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

Problem with video that (and I am firmly believe in this) video-enabled sensor is a compromise and without video it could be developed in such way that high-ISO (that I value the most in digital) will be yet better and cleaner. But it is very costly for them to develop few sensors in parallel, so it is very unreasonable to hope that they ever will do "pure" still sensor in near future. And lets face it - even with video modern sensors are so damn good as never before!

So absent of video will not improve stills if sensor is capable for video and it simply blocked. Saying all this I still very happy that my Df has not got that stupid video button.

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Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 3,941
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

lanefAU wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

lanefAU wrote:

Nikon must be shaking its head. Are you aware, even professionals use DSLR Video now? If you don't like it fine, just don't use it. Same as auto on my camera, I never use it, but I am not going get worked up about it.

The Df has been on the market quite a while now, with no drop in price and certainly not pulled from production. I suspect rather than shaking its head, Nikon is smiling all the way to the bank.

You know what they say? One swallow does not make a summer. I am sure there are many Nikon gear that are holding their price as well.

I agree with you. But, had the Df been the colossal failure most predicted, or still believe it to be, I think Nikon would have had a fire sale to clear the shelves and ceased production. Admittedly, the disdain for the Df stems more from its overall design layout than the fact that it has no video. No video is just a small reason for most not liking it. For me, it's just a small reason, but nonetheless a reason, that I do like.

j_photo Veteran Member • Posts: 4,066
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

j_photo wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Okay. I'm exaggerating a bit. But you know what I'm talking about. The fact remains that many users of video insist that non video users simply buy cameras with video and not use it. The alternative is for videos users to not buy cameras that don't have video. Yes, those models will sell in smaller numbers and will no doubt cost more. So what? If you aren't buying one it shouldn't matter to you what it costs.

I don't shoot video, but I don't mind that it's included in my D800. In fact, I'm glad it's there in case the day comes when I need it.

I don't mind if Nikon makes bodies without video for those who prefer not having it. But I don't see how it would be cheaper given the relative sales volumes. Maybe the cheapest way to do it is to take existing bodies, remove the video record button and hide the video-related menus--and charge more of course.

That would be fine for me if the additional price was reasonable. Say, a couple hundred dollars. The video button doesn't need to be removed. Just programmed to another function. Or better yet, make it user programable as many are now. Not having video related menus in the way is worth something to me. I'm sure I'm the exception. Since Nikon is willing to make two different models of the D5 (involving hardware), a separate model of some particular model to simply use a bit different firmware to remove the video function menus should be very doable.

Good luck with that. I'm not holding my breath!

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Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 3,941
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

j_photo wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

j_photo wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Okay. I'm exaggerating a bit. But you know what I'm talking about. The fact remains that many users of video insist that non video users simply buy cameras with video and not use it. The alternative is for videos users to not buy cameras that don't have video. Yes, those models will sell in smaller numbers and will no doubt cost more. So what? If you aren't buying one it shouldn't matter to you what it costs.

I don't shoot video, but I don't mind that it's included in my D800. In fact, I'm glad it's there in case the day comes when I need it.

I don't mind if Nikon makes bodies without video for those who prefer not having it. But I don't see how it would be cheaper given the relative sales volumes. Maybe the cheapest way to do it is to take existing bodies, remove the video record button and hide the video-related menus--and charge more of course.

That would be fine for me if the additional price was reasonable. Say, a couple hundred dollars. The video button doesn't need to be removed. Just programmed to another function. Or better yet, make it user programable as many are now. Not having video related menus in the way is worth something to me. I'm sure I'm the exception. Since Nikon is willing to make two different models of the D5 (involving hardware), a separate model of some particular model to simply use a bit different firmware to remove the video function menus should be very doable.

Good luck with that. I'm not holding my breath!

I'm a realist. I'm not holding my breath either. The odds have to be better than hitting the Powerball jackpot.

GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 13,974
False logic
20

seoulsurvivor wrote:

<snip>

...   But many users are paying for a feature that they will never use and I would love to see a quality product slipped into the product range which gives consumers a choice between video or no video. With the D800/D800e we had a choice of AA filter or not. In the D5 we have a choice of CF cards or XQD cards. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to give us a video option.

You are actually probably paying less for your DSLR because video is included.  Take video out and the camera will not sell as well, and that means a smaller production run and that means a higher cost to produce the camera.

If you do not want video, easy, just ignore it.  Do not use it.  Pretend it is not there, but be happy it is there, because it's presence has saved you some money.

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Bill1000Evening
Bill1000Evening Regular Member • Posts: 275
Nice to have the extra button
4

I have a Df and a D800 and I never shoot video - but it's great to have the button on the 800 - programmed to control ISO.  I use it all the time.

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G1Houston Senior Member • Posts: 2,823
If it has live view, the video comes with it already.
2

seoulsurvivor wrote:

j_photo wrote:

It's the Df.

Or, just ignore the video record button on your camera.

I do ignore the video button. I have it remapped to ISO on my D750. My fear though is that if Nikon did produce a standard DSLR style body without video (not DF form factor) it would probably go for the same price or similar to a body with video. I would only entertain the idea of no video if there was a distinct price advantage or if it added a feature or two to replace the lack of video which would justify a high price.

It is already there, not a "costly add on" as you imagine.  Taking it out to make a still only camera will only complicate production to increase the cost and you will then end up paying more for a niche product.  Why do you think the Df costs so much more???

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G1Houston Senior Member • Posts: 2,823
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video

seoulsurvivor wrote:

Hmmm, don't know about that. I still think a substantial number of non video users would jump at it if it was priced right.

"a substantial number of non video users," 5 or 10 years ago, may be, but now non-videos are becoming rare.  Videos are fun, try it!

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hdkhang Regular Member • Posts: 175
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video
2

KSV wrote:

Problem with video that (and I am firmly believe in this) video-enabled sensor is a compromise and without video it could be developed in such way that high-ISO (that I value the most in digital) will be yet better and cleaner. But it is very costly for them to develop few sensors in parallel, so it is very unreasonable to hope that they ever will do "pure" still sensor in near future. And lets face it - even with video modern sensors are so damn good as never before!

So absent of video will not improve stills if sensor is capable for video and it simply blocked. Saying all this I still very happy that my Df has not got that stupid video button.

I'd bet you would be very very wrong in your assumption.

Video functionality requires sensors that do not overheat as much, a sensor that overheats is one that adds noise to the image. Video drove the development of more efficient sensors, and that helped with high ISO image quality that you so value (as well as I'm sure, long exposure photography). You should be grateful for video.

Second function that helped with image making, video drove the demand for faster processing and faster image read out which drove adoption of better processors for image processing.

Unrelated to photo taking but video also expanded the market reach of DSLR's to a generation of film makers who in part helped to bring the prices of cameras down.

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emem
emem Veteran Member • Posts: 4,415
No cat, no pigeons, just don't use it - duh!! (n/t)
1

seoulsurvivor wrote:

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons. There is no doubt that the latest products to be announced, the D5 and D500 look to be great cameras.........on paper at least, and I'm sure they'll sell well to their intended market. Well done, Nikon!

But with all the latest features and enhancements that accompany these new products which no doubt evolve as a result of market feedback, I wonder if we will ever see a camera in the future which lacks video and is aimed squarely at the stills photographer. Think about the amazingly popular (and still is an all time favorite of many) D700.

I for one have never used the video component of my cameras and I guarantee I never will in the future. Video just doesn't interest me at all. Surely I'm not alone in this boat. Yes, yes, I know Nikon is not going to build a camera just for me and I know some will say that it's better to have it available if ever you need it. I get all that. But many users are paying for a feature that they will never use and I would love to see a quality product slipped into the product range which gives consumers a choice between video or no video. With the D800/D800e we had a choice of AA filter or not. In the D5 we have a choice of CF cards or XQD cards. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to give us a video option.

Personally, if I had a FF body say with 24mp and the build quality of the old D700 or the later D8** models, but minus the video, I'd probably never part with it. Surely there must be a huge market for such a camera based around thousands upon thousands of users who never use and never intend to use the video component.

I'm sure it will never happen because camera production has much to do with keeping up with or staying ahead of the opposition and it would probably require Nikon to go out on a limb and take a huge gamble with such a product. A product sans video to me would be all about getting back to basics, but at a higher level. I may be totally wrong, but I would venture to say that many of the pro sports shooters or photo journos who simply want quality images at a super high frame rate, rarely if ever use the video function and would love to see a product simply aimed at stills photography if it came at a reduced price.

No doubt many readers will come back to me telling me they use their video all the time and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Fair enough, but I'd like to see what non video users have to say and what they would like to see in their future non video FF body.

Cheers

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Mike McEnaney. (emem)
www.veritasmea.com

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antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,653
there is the Df!
1

Hi seoulsurvivor,

couple thoughts:

- you do not have to use any of the video features in any camera.  And things have evolved in such a way that where that camera has video features, you're not paying extra for them, at least not much.

- camera makers have to try to run a business that can live on for years, in the face of growing pressure from smartphones (more exactly: smartphones already represent 97 percent of all cameras sold!).  One of the axes is video, because pros and enthusiasts increasingly want video, because their clients want video.  They don't have the luxury to make a stills-only camera, except with very niche, and ideally premium, positioning.
Nikon has one such product:  the Df.  Solid image quality.  A bit pedestrian performance though: 5.5 fps, more importantly AF sensitive only down to -1EV ie requires 2x more light than an old D7000, 4x more light than a D7200 or D750 or D810, and 8x more light than a D500.
Proble with the Df is that it has a weird design, mixed direct controls and digital controls, and it is pricey, around $2'800.  You can get a better-performing D750 for just $2'000: better AF, better screen, better high ISO, and you even get a built-in flash.

- all this being said, I personally never use my DSLR for video.  Why?  Because it is heavy and because it can't AF while filming.  For short family things I use my Smartphone.

seoulsurvivor wrote:

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons. There is no doubt that the latest products to be announced, the D5 and D500 look to be great cameras.........on paper at least, and I'm sure they'll sell well to their intended market. Well done, Nikon!

But with all the latest features and enhancements that accompany these new products which no doubt evolve as a result of market feedback, I wonder if we will ever see a camera in the future which lacks video and is aimed squarely at the stills photographer. Think about the amazingly popular (and still is an all time favorite of many) D700.

I for one have never used the video component of my cameras and I guarantee I never will in the future. Video just doesn't interest me at all. Surely I'm not alone in this boat. Yes, yes, I know Nikon is not going to build a camera just for me and I know some will say that it's better to have it available if ever you need it. I get all that. But many users are paying for a feature that they will never use and I would love to see a quality product slipped into the product range which gives consumers a choice between video or no video. With the D800/D800e we had a choice of AA filter or not. In the D5 we have a choice of CF cards or XQD cards. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to give us a video option.

Personally, if I had a FF body say with 24mp and the build quality of the old D700 or the later D8** models, but minus the video, I'd probably never part with it. Surely there must be a huge market for such a camera based around thousands upon thousands of users who never use and never intend to use the video component.

I'm sure it will never happen because camera production has much to do with keeping up with or staying ahead of the opposition and it would probably require Nikon to go out on a limb and take a huge gamble with such a product. A product sans video to me would be all about getting back to basics, but at a higher level. I may be totally wrong, but I would venture to say that many of the pro sports shooters or photo journos who simply want quality images at a super high frame rate, rarely if ever use the video function and would love to see a product simply aimed at stills photography if it came at a reduced price.

No doubt many readers will come back to me telling me they use their video all the time and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Fair enough, but I'd like to see what non video users have to say and what they would like to see in their future non video FF body.

Cheers

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chary zp Senior Member • Posts: 1,488
Very good point! n/t

GodSpeaks wrote:

seoulsurvivor wrote:

<snip>

... But many users are paying for a feature that they will never use and I would love to see a quality product slipped into the product range which gives consumers a choice between video or no video. With the D800/D800e we had a choice of AA filter or not. In the D5 we have a choice of CF cards or XQD cards. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to give us a video option.

You are actually probably paying less for your DSLR because video is included. Take video out and the camera will not sell as well, and that means a smaller production run and that means a higher cost to produce the camera.

If you do not want video, easy, just ignore it. Do not use it. Pretend it is not there, but be happy it is there, because it's presence has saved you some money.

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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 502
Re: If it has live view, the video comes with it already.

The D300 and D700 both had live view, but no video.....

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Jur

KSV Veteran Member • Posts: 3,351
Re: Please Mr Nikon, no video
2

hdkhang wrote:

KSV wrote:

Problem with video that (and I am firmly believe in this) video-enabled sensor is a compromise and without video it could be developed in such way that high-ISO (that I value the most in digital) will be yet better and cleaner. But it is very costly for them to develop few sensors in parallel, so it is very unreasonable to hope that they ever will do "pure" still sensor in near future. And lets face it - even with video modern sensors are so damn good as never before!

So absent of video will not improve stills if sensor is capable for video and it simply blocked. Saying all this I still very happy that my Df has not got that stupid video button.

I'd bet you would be very very wrong in your assumption.

Video functionality requires sensors that do not overheat as much, a sensor that overheats is one that adds noise to the image. Video drove the development of more efficient sensors, and that helped with high ISO image quality that you so value (as well as I'm sure, long exposure photography). You should be grateful for video.

Statement is true, but conclusion is wrong. Heat is big problem and this is true, but it generates by extensive usage of sensor, i.e. video, so for pure still it is unnecessarily to battle those heat because it not generated at first place.

Second function that helped with image making, video drove the demand for faster processing and faster image read out which drove adoption of better processors for image processing.

Again it is for video only. May be partially for high FPS. I am not interested. However exactly necessity for fast enough readout that vital for video making compromise in still - cells cannot be discharge properly fast enough.

Unrelated to photo taking but video also expanded the market reach of DSLR's to a generation of film makers who in part helped to bring the prices of cameras down.

And who buying D5 and alike exclusively for film making? Even if one made perfectly fine videoprocessor very nature of DSLR and in particular it ergonomic makes it incredibly uncomfortable to shoot video. Expending market is just fantasy, no more. Video demanded in DSLR by greedy people who like to buy one unit that do everything and they believe that they will use it. And also stupid herd that like all boxes ticked - indeed why 6K DSLR cannot do it when iPhone can? It is like 4WD - 95% why buy them use them just for shopping and fool themselves that one day they will go for that trip. Never happens. Yes 4WD (and DSLR for this merit) became more affordable because sold in masses, but people who buying 4WD to go out (actually intended purpose) have to modify them heavily because from factory they catered for those 95% of <<insert your favorite insult word here>> that never go out. Unfortunately DSLR cannot be modified that easy.

So IMHO video in DSLR is useless gimmick that compromises still performance. But unfortunately we have to live with it. I just glad that my Df has not got that ugly video button.

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