Best camera system purchase for $399 is still m43???

After all the things I learned the past year on this forum why I should not buy m43:

- m43 gather 4x less light than FF

- too much DOF, according to some

m43 system is still highly recommended IMO for these three reasons:

1)  Kit lens perform exceptionally well IQ wise.

2)  No entry level shooter will care about how much light or lack thereof once ISO3200 is acceptable.

3)  It's the most affordable new system when factoring in the lenses.

So now, I came down to two choices that are currently $399:

1)  Oly EPL6 16MP with 2 kit lens 14-42, 40-150mm NEW.

2) Refurbished Nikon D3200 24MP with 2 kit lens (similar zoom range equiv).

I am contemplating to suggest #1 to a family member given that IQ is similar given 16MP vs 24MP is awash when looked on a 2MP monitor.

Is there a different m43 camera, maybe from Panny, in the price range I should consider?

Or can there be a better APSC deal I am not aware of?

TIA

I read that the LiveView feature is not as good as mirrorless which means very unpleasant shooting experiences and the non-tilting LCD is a huge negative.

Also, there will be no more lens purchases.  I know my family member very well.

Spend once and be done with it so the argument of having alot of lens doesn't hold.

At the same time, there's a lot of lens available if he ever needs to upgrade in the m43 format.

PS:  Portability for vacation is a huge huge bonus!

Best

The other day 43 rumors had a link to open box cameras on sale at Samy's eBay store. They have several Panasonic G5s for that price, full warranty, but only one lens. I have been nothing but delighted with my G3. The Pany is DSLR like with a built in EVF.
--
~~~ Kim

Chi Pham wrote:

I read that the LiveView feature is not as good as mirrorless which means very unpleasant shooting experiences and the non-tilting LCD is a huge negative.

Good point, especially if it is about beginners who just start learning photographing or has certain basic knowledge, and wish to learn more.

For an OVF, it is a pure blind shooting, totally relying on the camera's metering and pre-install algoritum, depending on the right metering mode and measuring on the right spot/secion, plus experience (not much obvious for a beginner) to take image on trail and error base. How to set the parameter right for every different kind of shooting would need to be built up from practice, mistake and time.

Live view shooting (dslr could, but miles behind) allow shooter to watch the exposure changed in real time on adjustment of setting. From a short learning most shooter could get the idea on +/-ev through a direct visual guide. And would translate into the using of f/stop, shutter speed and ISO. Basically no more long lecture on the meaning of those parameter (could learn on the job). As long as had trained a good eye to tell the lighting change in evf/LCD, basically he would be not far from technical correct shooting...

Also, there will be no more lens purchases. I know my family member very well.

Spend once and be done with it so the argument of having alot of lens doesn't hold.

At the same time, there's a lot of lens available if he ever needs to upgrade in the m43 format.

PS: Portability for vacation is a huge huge bonus!

Best

-- hide signature --

Ask not what the camera can do, ask what you can do with the camera.

Might think of GF6/7 (around US$300 body only), but lack of IBIS, GM5 with 12-32, below US$400 (gray market in my city), small but also lack of IBIS... Or the recently heavily discounted GX7 (US$500 for body only, bit too large)... You might have a good deal.

Gidday CP

Some of the best photos I have ever taken were taken with my E-510 plus two kit lenses (FTs) 14-42 and 40-150.

I can't imagine that the E-PL6 would be anything but better than this (still excellent) 8 y.o. 10MPx camera.

Personally, I wouldn't buy it because of the lack of any kind of viewfinder, but many prefer the phone/P&S way, so this is no big deal. If I were to buy something like this, I would have to factor in some kind of VF, and that bumps the price quite a bit.

Is the lack of a VF going to bother your family member at all?
That, basically, is the only thing I can see being a problem with this kit. Sure beats the AUD$1,600 I paid for my E-510 kit in 2007 .

Chi Pham wrote:

Is there a different m43 camera, maybe from Panny, in the price range I should consider?

The Panasonic G7 twin lens kit is an alternative - 14-42mm/45 -150mm

You have forgotten the 30 2.8 and 42.5 1.7. All of those lenses work very well on the GM line and also with the larger bodies. The "old" 20 1.7 makes a good general lens, but the 15 1.7 is my current favorite. By the way, the 12-35 and 35-100 do make a very nice working combination. Aside from being splash proof, they are reasonably lightweight.

Great feedback.!

I almost forgot about that OVF requires more knowledge and skill.

He's really is a beginner who do not want too much difficulty.

I planned to show him only 1 thing and that's exposure compensation in auto and P mode.

Once he master that after 3-6 months,  we'll move on to DOF.

Everything else, aperture, shutter speed,  ISO will be in auto.

I don't want to scare him or he'll drop this hobby.

The goal is to enjoy the hobby with the least effort.

Peace

rodriguezPhoto wrote:

The other day 43 rumors had a link to open box cameras on sale at Samy's eBay store. They have several Panasonic G5s for that price, full warranty, but only one lens. I have been nothing but delighted with my G3. The Pany is DSLR like with a built in EVF.
--
~~~ Kim

Thanks Kim.

Will keep my eyes open to include G5 and GH2.  The G3 looks kinda weird and reminds me of the E300.

Peace

EM10 would be a great deal if I can get refurb +2 lens for 400.

Will keep looking.

Thanks!

John King wrote:

Gidday CP

Some of the best photos I have ever taken were taken with my E-510 plus two kit lenses (FTs) 14-42 and 40-150.

I can't imagine that the E-PL6 would be anything but better than this (still excellent) 8 y.o. 10MPx camera.

Personally, I wouldn't buy it because of the lack of any kind of viewfinder, but many prefer the phone/P&S way, so this is no big deal. If I were to buy something like this, I would have to factor in some kind of VF, and that bumps the price quite a bit.

Is the lack of a VF going to bother your family member at all?
That, basically, is the only thing I can see being a problem with this kit. Sure beats the AUD$1,600 I paid for my E-510 kit in 2007 .

Greetings John!

I did informed him that there will be no EVF or viewfinder.  He asked me what's that? ! LOL.

Therefore,  it must have a tilt or swivel LCD.

Peace

Thanks for the suggestion,  but there's no way anytime soon the G7 + 2 lens are going for $399.

Peace

aLoto wrote:

Chi Pham wrote:

After all the things I learned the past year on this forum why I should not buy m43:

- m43 gather 4x less light than FF

- too much DOF, according to some

m43 system is still highly recommended IMO for these three reasons:

1) Kit lens perform exceptionally well IQ wise.

2) No entry level shooter will care about how much light or lack thereof once ISO3200 is acceptable.

3) It's the most affordable new system when factoring in the lenses.

So now, I came down to two choices that are currently $399:

1) Oly EPL6 16MP with 2 kit lens 14-42, 40-150mm NEW.

2) Refurbished Nikon D3200 24MP with 2 kit lens (similar zoom range equiv).

I am contemplating to suggest #1 to a family member given that IQ is similar given 16MP vs 24MP is awash when looked on a 2MP monitor.

Is there a different m43 camera, maybe from Panny, in the price range I should consider?

Or can there be a better APSC deal I am not aware of?

TIA

Nikon, in this case, no doubt. Your family member will have many more affordable lenses to choose from when him/her want to upgrade and also a much more capable sensor. The Nikon also will give him/her more a pleasant shooting experience from the start if he/she is not looking to save a few grams on weight... but if that was case then you would have specified that in your post :).

Still no gear list?

Chi Pham wrote:

After all the things I learned the past year on this forum why I should not buy m43:

- m43 gather 4x less light than FF

- too much DOF, according to some

Of course the other part of some, me included,think you can never have enough DOF

Chi Pham wrote:

I read that the LiveView feature is not as good as mirrorless which means very unpleasant shooting experiences and the non-tilting LCD is a huge negative.

Also, there will be no more lens purchases. I know my family member very well.

Spend once and be done with it so the argument of having alot of lens doesn't hold.

At the same time, there's a lot of lens available if he ever needs to upgrade in the m43 format.

PS: Portability for vacation is a huge huge bonus!

If the potential owner is unlikely to add any more lenses... then the EPL6 two lens kit should be ideal for their needs. Both kit lenses are pretty impressive, and together they cover a very useful shooting range.

As far as lens upgrades go, M4/3 has plenty of good options, as you duly noted. But anyone who wants to spend $400 "and be done with it" is unlikely to want to buy any $1,000 lenses. Not from Olympus, nor from Nikon.

The EPL6 two lens kit is a very good place to start. You could stop right there with much more capability than a $900 Sony RX100 camera at less than half the cost. Or it could become your second camera if you ever decide to move up. And it is still a relatively small camera.

Plus, the size and weight difference is embarrassing for Nikon. The Nikon with normal kit lens is 700 grams. The Panasonic kit weighs in around 440 grams.

DSLRs do have some advantages over MILC cameras, but none that would be important for a casual amateur shooter. They rarely prefer OVF or EVFs because they are accustomed to framing with the LCD from their P&S or cell phone.