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Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

Started Dec 16, 2015 | Discussions
Oguzhan Forum Member • Posts: 62
Why Noise Reduction on RAW?
2

NX3000 applies nr to the raw files. It doesn't make sense to me.

RAW is for advanced users who want to get the most out of the data recorded by image sensor. RAW files of photos taken at high iso values are almost undistinguishable from jpeg copies. What is the point of having raw file then?

It might offer more dynamic range but I want my image to look natural and digital noise without nr looks pretty good to me.

I printed some images taken with a Canon camera at iso 3200 without nr and they looked pretty nice and detailed. I can't do that with NX3000.

I understand that NX3000 is not the most serious camera and it is targeted at people who don't want to spend time editing images. I get that. Jpeg algorithm is pretty nice but raw should be more "raw" imo.

High iso noise reduction is set to off by the way.

Samsung NX3000
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Dmpreciado Regular Member • Posts: 195
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

The main point of noise reduction is for long exsposure. atleast thats the only time it ever matters for me. unless youre shooting in full manual mode then i dont know why youre getting such horrible RAWs. iso should always be as small as possible. mess with f/ and shutter speed.

OP Oguzhan Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?
2

This post doesn't help at all  Cameras have these iso ranges for a reason. You can't do long exposure when there is motion and you sometimes have to use a high iso value even with a wide aperture. Light levels are much lower indoors. I use my 30mm lens at f/2 and shutter speed of 1/50 to reduce blur. Iso 1600 or more is necessary with these settings.

Lifted
Lifted Regular Member • Posts: 155
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?
2

Dmpreciado wrote:

The main point of noise reduction is for long exsposure. atleast thats the only time it ever matters for me. unless youre shooting in full manual mode then i dont know why youre getting such horrible RAWs. iso should always be as small as possible. mess with f/ and shutter speed.

What a strange post.

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wpstl Senior Member • Posts: 1,251
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

What makes you think the noise reduction is applied if the setting is off?

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"Sometimes I like to throw a grenade and run away."

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OP Oguzhan Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?
1

The way it looks. You see a big difference with raw files regarding the amount of noise. Here is a comparison between nx3000 and nx300. These are f/2 1/50 and iso 3200.

nx3000 raw vs nx300 raw

And the jpeg version of the same image:

Nx3000 jpeg crop

otto k Senior Member • Posts: 2,252
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

What are you using as raw developer?

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OP Oguzhan Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

Adobe Camera Raw. Does it make a difference?

zipcode Regular Member • Posts: 312
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

There were some topics a while ago about this, I think the conclusion was the same, the nx3000 applies nr to raw no matter what.

As for the reason... who knows.

otto k Senior Member • Posts: 2,252
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?
1

OK, I don't have this camera so I used imaging resource samples and here's the thing: it does apply noise reduction in camera and quite strong one.

Here's a small crop of top edge of ISO 25600 SRW file, left side is demosaiced, right side is pure RAW in linear mode (scaled to 8 bits but it doesn't matter). Used dcraw in document mode to exclude any "smart" things raw developer might do (verified with raw therapee).

Left side demosaiced, right side raw SRW

You can actually see that NR is applied to inner part of image as borders are actually not included in final image anyway (jpeg). Transition is quite stark and illustrates the issue nicely.

What to do? Try shooting in continuous mode and see if you get better results. Why? Most (all?) of NX cameras cannot apply NR to images in continuous high mode due to processing needs. This might help you as well, just switch to continuous and give it a try.

IMO, this is extremely silly thing of Samsung to do, as you said, raw files exist for a reason, messing with them in this manner is plain wrong.

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kirschm New Member • Posts: 9
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

I like the NX3000, I only shoot RAW... and of course I am disappointed that the RAWs are 'pre-cooked' ISO wise...

But I think we have to live with it... and honestly it isn't so bad as it appears for a RAW-shooter...

Why? Although I cannot compare it I assume that modifying the 'non-pre-cooked' NX3000 RAW (which of course does not exist) in Lightroom would lead to similar results...

And yes, it still remains strange to view an ISO3200 RAW in Lightroom with no need to apply any noise reduction...

And by the way: continious shooting does not help... I always shoot via 3-picture-bracketing...

Kaziklu Senior Member • Posts: 1,301
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

There are two kinds of Noise reduction in the last generation of NX cameras. High ISO Noise Reduction and Long Exposure Noise Reduction. These are two very different things. 
The first is basically for JPGs and the JPG preview. I have no idea if it does anything to the RAW file as I have never turned it on I would assume not. However others have talked about it a fair bit. 
The second is Long Exposure Noise Reduction and this is again something I have turned off but is handy in some situations. The Camera produces heat while taking a long exposure and this can great a specific kind of noise due to hot pixels. To deal with this after a Long Exposure has been taken the Camera process the raw file buy taking a second picture of equal length with the shutter closed. Giving it a pixel map of hot pixels it can then remove. (iirc this may not be 100% accurate in function but is in mechanism) If I am taking a single long exposure I want to to keep it on. If I'm doing star trails I want to turn it off as I'm staking images and usually it will deal with the issue on it's own. 
I can't comment on the quality of the NX3000 of course as I don't own it but I do own the NX1 which is off the same generation.

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elefteriadis alexandros Regular Member • Posts: 109
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

I have the nx2000 for 2 years and nx3000 for nine months. The raw in 3000 is complete disaster with heavy noise redaction, i don't use any more over 800 asa because of that reason, i don't now what SAMSUNG think when take this approach for RAW files, after all if someone want in body noise redaction's there is the JPG..
Any way the problem is not only this but NX3000 have no focus peaking wich is important for manual focusing and no sensor dust cleaning. The only reason i use it is because for the swivel lcd and external control, other than that the picture come out from NX2000 is far superior than the NX3000.

ttbek Veteran Member • Posts: 4,869
Re: Why Noise Reduction on RAW?

The bracketing is not the same as continuous, I'm not saying it will work for you in continuous, just that testing one says nothing about the other.

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