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Samsung NX cameras and audio/Mic Input - The reason for the flop in sales of the NX cameras...

Started Dec 15, 2015 | Discussions
tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales

The chance could be fw hacking, but those who stars, soon disappear (kidnapped by samsung??) hehehe

 tecnoworld's gear list:tecnoworld's gear list
Samsung TL500 Samsung NX100 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX300 Samsung NX1 +15 more
flip 21
OP flip 21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Re: well said Jorginho... Samsung is abandoning us...

Well said Jorginho. I always like your comments They are always very well balanced. No wonder your a veteran here

I always loved Panasonic cameras. The HC-X900 from Panasonic, is still one of the best consumer videocamera available today. The TM700 blew its competiotion when it was launched (I own it). The problem for me is that I already invested in Samsung NX cameras and APS-C lenses. On the other hand, I have still some hope, that we might see the NX50 release next year (I know, is like beleiving in SantaClauss). I got my fingers crossed, anyway. That is why I still didn't but the G7, or the GX8. The sound quality on Panasonic Cameras is outstanding. On the other hand, the sound quality on the NX cameras, and of all samsung videocameras cameras I came in contact with is a crap. The only camera that has good sound quality is the NX1, but it took too much time to disable its damn AGC from its firmware. If they didn't do that in their last firmware, there were people here that would got "stucked" with poor sound quality for the rest of their NX1 life. Syncing audio is time consuming...

Nowadays, video should be undissociated from audio. For intances, we call it Video Editing Software, but we expect good audio performance with that type of software, right? At least decent audio quality. If samsung doesn'yt care about audio on their cameras, even the ones that as mic input, such as the NX30, they might as well turn it off. At least we'll have smaller files. That was what I expected when I bought a Samsung NX camera. Good or decent audio. Good AGC, or a way to disconnect it, at least.

It makes me angry, because the EM10 has a headphone input, and the sound capture by this mic is great, but when its recorded by the camera, the sound turns to "unusable"... The constant shif in volume, from loud to zero, and vice versa, makes me want to threw my NX300 camera at the head of a the person that programmed that old, and annoying, crazy AGC :). What makes me angry is despite not having a mic input some of the drawbacks of the NX500 are indeed due to sofwtare, they are due to its lousy firmware, and I beleive they did this on purpose. The absence of theh H264 codec...

On the other hand, Jorginho, one thing I really love is the 120fps on the NX1, and on the A7s II. I don't undserstand, why the Panasonic FZ1000 has it, but the G7 don't. Even the LX100 has 120fps in 720p. Why is that? I really love to have this feature...

The AF of the G7 is not as good as the NX500, that's a fact. But as I already said here BAD SOUND QUALITY makes your videos look like crap. The opposite is not true, though.

By the way, Kishasa, can you explain me why on earth was the Samsung EM mic discontinued? Or why it was produced in the first place, if the recorded audio on the NX cameras destroy the wonderful sound capture by this mic? Why wasn't this software bug never corrected? Why did Samsung disabled it in the NX cameras firmware, so it isn't compatible with the NX500, and the NX3000?

For me the truth is that they just wanted to avoid being sued by Sony. Samsung is a great brand, but it makes really big mistakes, when they start plagiarating ideas......

For some of you Samsung didn't make any mistake, but they did. And now they are abandoning us Bad Samsung ....snif, snif...

Martin Maier Contributing Member • Posts: 696
Re: Samsung NX cameras and audio/Mic Input - The reason for the flop in sales of the NX cameras...
1

Tugela wrote:

So, your theory that mic inputs are necessary for a camera to sell well is a load of hogwash.

Clap, clap - i think same. I want a CAMERA ... extern mic = place 99 !

 Martin Maier's gear list:Martin Maier's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS60 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Samsung NX500
flip 21
OP flip 21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Re: Samsung NX cameras and audio/Mic Input - The reason for the flop in sales of the NX cameras...

Tugela wrote:

flip 21 wrote:

The absensce of a mic input is a drawback. Every review says that it is. Is a disadvantage against the Panasonic G7, for instances. It's in every review a read...

Bad áudio is very common on NX cameras

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKzcKWPJVvQ

I have never seen a microphone mounted on a small ILC. Ever. No doubt some people do use them on larger ILCs, but by and large those people don't shoot that sort of video with small travel cameras.

Here you go. It too me just a mouse clik...

Have you seen any Samsung camera with good sound quality? Even Samsung videocameras? Have you seen a Video Editing software with unusable audio quality? You haven't, and you know why? Because Video is undissociated from audio. Maybe Samsung only do perfect cameras for silent film... The problem here is the merge between still cameras and video cameras... some still photographers, doesn't want this to happen... they want to be stucked to tradicional still cameras... some still photographer just hate video... that's the truth...For some photographer, Canon 5D MArk II was the worst thing that could happened because it introduced good quality video in DSLR cameras....

ShootMeAlready Senior Member • Posts: 1,031
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales

Kisaha wrote:

I have a NX300 and a NX500 and the 500 is a much better camera in every sense. The 500 is a perfect B-cam for a set with the NX1.

No EVF. Not perfect at all. Not even EVF possible. It is take it or leave and people leave it. Mostly.

This is a NX300 and a NX500 comparison, and I said that NX500 is a a perfect B-cam set for the NX1. Your comment is irrelevant.

Agree if you have the Samsung glass, the NX500 is a great B-cam.

NX1 competition was Canon 70D, 7II, Panasonic GH4, and NX1 is the better camera among all of them, not very competitive priced, but a better mix of all the cropped cameras.

The real problem is that the system is abandoned, but in my opinion, the system was very competitive and modern, and it deserved a better look fror people.

Lets discuss NX1 as a stills camera. Its not any better than a 70D.  70D has great AF, similar DR, and great IQ.   Yet the 70D is cheaper, and carries forward one's investment in glass. Samsung has some really great glass, but its missing some rather obvious wholes, like f1.4 primes for popular portraiture lengths (30mm,50mm).  It needed that on day one to be competing with the 70D and higher priced stills.

Now as a video camera the NX1 had a great edge 4k video, 120fps for 1080p, H265. But even that advantage I think has diminished.  The real cost of a Samsung kit for video would include, a great deal of money in glass plus the body.  Ball parking estimate on the glass:

- Zooms 16-50mmf2.8, 50-150mmf2.8 (all Samsung) ~ $3k

- Primes: 12mmf2.8, 30mm f1.4, 50mmf1.4 (all Ronkinon MF), ~ $1.2k, 85mmf1.4 (Samsung) $800

Total glass ball park $ is $5K.  One can probably shop around get some deals, but having priced these all out at different times its not a bad ball-park, but to be favourable lets say $4k with some digging.

The body was running on park with 7dmkII, at NX1 body $1.7.  Grand total is $5.7k.

So at this point, I would suggest, if you want 4k video on an aps-c sensor, its cheaper to go for a BMD ursa mini 4k, at $3k, plus some fast SD cards, and resuse your battery and canon glass.  This will come in  lets be generous and say $4k, and you have a much better 4K camera with global shutter, and pro res 4:2:2 or if you really have the time 4k 12bit raw.  Saving about $1.7k.  So it looks to me that the NX1's days as the best 4k video option have passed.

Not that its a bad camera to have its just that all technology moves on, and if your trying to win a market share with an expensive glass+body system you have to carve out a niche.

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"Shoot Long and Prosper"

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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales
2

NOT BETTER THAN A 70D?!?!?!?

It's huge miles better!!!!!

Some data:

15fps vs 7fps

28mp vs 20mp

83 vs 68 in DXO mark

half a stop better iso

1.5 stops better DR

1.7 bits more color depth

big and great EVF vs small and not so great OVF

HUGE difference in exposure latitude:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=samsung_nx1&attr144_1=canon_eos70d&attr144_2=canon_eos70d&attr144_3=canon_eos70d&attr146_0=100_6&attr146_1=100_6&attr146_2=100_5&attr146_3=100_4&normalization=compare&widget=205&x=0.007941243281401661&y=-0.001650126039982514

It's like saying that a porsche 911 and a Corolla Sedan are not much different.

 tecnoworld's gear list:tecnoworld's gear list
Samsung TL500 Samsung NX100 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX300 Samsung NX1 +15 more
Kisaha Senior Member • Posts: 2,300
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales
1

Lets discuss NX1 as a stills camera. Its not any better than a 70D. 70D has great AF, similar DR, and great IQ. Yet the 70D is cheaper, and carries forward one's investment in glass. Samsung has some really great glass, but its missing some rather obvious wholes, like f1.4 primes for popular portraiture lengths (30mm,50mm). It needed that on day one to be competing with the 70D and higher priced stills.

I have used the 70D twice, and only in manual mode (in general I am using mostly M mode in focus and all the other parametres with every camera) and I do not own the NX1, so I am not sure I can judge AF performances, but the 70D is really just a mediocre camera for a lot of money. The 70D sensor is worst than NX300 sensor. Even 7DmarkII has just a mediocre sensor. I am sure you have heard about how Canon is far behind in the sensor battle, that is objective. Now, how the pictures look, that is subjective, and one can have whatever opinion, and all are respectable.

I dare to say, the 60D was a better camera in its era (because there wasn't so much mirrorless competition) and I used it for a lot of low(no) budget projects, and not the 70D as they are much better options right now (that they weren't available back then when the 60D was "king"). The lens selection is another subject, and obviously Canon has a bigger lens selection, for my personal use NX is just fine, pro work is - again - a completely different subject. The glass investment is not exactly true, as Canon APS-C lenses are not working on FF Canon cameras.

Now as a video camera the NX1 had a great edge 4k video, 120fps for 1080p, H265. But even that advantage I think has diminished. The real cost of a Samsung kit for video would include, a great deal of money in glass plus the body. Ball parking estimate on the glass:

- Zooms 16-50mmf2.8, 50-150mmf2.8 (all Samsung) ~ $3k

- Primes: 12mmf2.8, 30mm f1.4, 50mmf1.4 (all Ronkinon MF), ~ $1.2k, 85mmf1.4 (Samsung) $800

Total glass ball park $ is $5K. One can probably shop around get some deals, but having priced these all out at different times its not a bad ball-park, but to be favourable lets say $4k with some digging.

The body was running on park with 7dmkII, at NX1 body $1.7. Grand total is $5.7k.

All the aforementioned prices are exaggerated. If you do the math, and you are familiar with what is going on in video productions, the price is very good, as it includes a full set of 2 top performing zooms and all the Rokinon cine primes (I do exchange the 85mm with the Rokinon one, as it is preferable for video). Try to do this in any other system and you will be surprised (with the low cost option of the Rokinonos for the other systems of course), the 16-50S is well priced for what it is, the 50-150S should have been closer to the 16-50S lens, price wise.

So at this point, I would suggest, if you want 4k video on an aps-c sensor, its cheaper to go for a BMD ursa mini 4k, at $3k, plus some fast SD cards, and resuse your battery and canon glass. This will come in lets be generous and say $4k, and you have a much better 4K camera with global shutter, and pro res 4:2:2 or if you really have the time 4k 12bit raw. Saving about $1.7k. So it looks to me that the NX1's days as the best 4k video option have passed.

Not that its a bad camera to have its just that all technology moves on, and if your trying to win a market share with an expensive glass+body system you have to carve out a niche.

I do not know if you have ever used a BMD camera before, I was really excited with the pocket a few years ago, but it was a disaster of a camera, as it was near impossible to use it as it was (just the camera and a lens), logically these cameras are very difficult to achieve mainstream acceptance, as their advantages are overshadowed by their disadvantages. I am not going to buy an Ursa, if I haven't test it first, as I have been burned a few times by them, even though the comparison is unfair, as it is a video camera and NX1 obviously is a hybrid (one of the few cameras that really deserve this distinction), I mean, try to take pictures with an Ursa mini...

The problem with the NX system is that it won't have any evolution, as you are talking about a camera (URSA mini) that is not really tested in the field yet, with a camera close to its end cycle (NX1). I am 100% that NX2 would have been a better video camera, even vs a dedicated video camera as the Ursa mini, plus the price comparison is again irrelevant, as the NX1 with the 16-50S, an SD card and a spare battery you are ready to go, while the Ursa needs, obviously a lens, V-lock battery(-ies), top handle, view finder (this alone is close to 1.500$ I think!) plus the CF fast cards that are quite expensive right now (do they accept SD cards too?), so I do not agree at all with your opinion budget wise, plus the Ursa 4K sensor is not anything amazing, and worst than the NX one in every sense (from what I have read, I do not have personal experience). I am more excited about the new 4.6K one and I will be follow them closely, as it is a very interesting and exciting company that can keep prices relatively low.

For video, nothing beats a dedicated video camera as an everyday tool, and that's why we mostly use FS700 (mostly for slow motion), C100 (the workhorse) and C300 for low to medium budget projects, and it is kind of a stretch to ask for everything a video user needs from a photo camera, and I replied to you because you seem to understand the differences between using a video camera, and a photo camera that captures good video as well.

Again, the Ursa Mini is a video camera, the NX1 is both a photo and video one, and my argument was, that as a camera, it is better than the 70D, 7Dii, GH4 which was the competition of NX1. These cameras have some pros as well, I am not going to negate them, as there isn't a "perfect" camera yet, probably will never be, and that makes perfect sense and its fine with me, as I am in no crusade finding the Holy Grail of Cameras.

The problem is the end of the NX system, as newer cameras and more lens options would have establish Samsung as a more serious player, do not forget that NX1 was their first serious (with pro characteristics) effort of Samsung, and they abandoned it as they just becoming to create some buzz.

flip 21
OP flip 21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales

tecnoworld wrote:

The chance could be fw hacking, but those who stars, soon disappear (kidnapped by samsung??) hehehe

No Tecnoworld, Kidnap by people who hate that their "stills" cameras are being also used to shoot video

flip 21
OP flip 21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Re: Samsung NX cameras and bad audio quality/Hiss

Where are you from?

Kisaha Senior Member • Posts: 2,300
Re: Samsung NX cameras and bad audio quality/Hiss

flip 21 wrote:

Where are you from?

Greece, so more or less similar market to the Portuguese one, actually the 2 countries are the most financially similar in EU.

flip 21
OP flip 21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Re: Samsung NX cameras and bad audio quality/Hiss

Kisaha wrote:

flip 21 wrote:

Where are you from?

Greece, so more or less similar market to the Portuguese one, actually the 2 countries are the most financially similar in EU.

Yes.. .we are both poor These American dudes, gemans, etc, have loads of cash, they should offered us some NX1 cameras this christmas... Are you listening people? ehehhe

They have more money, and their cameras are cheaper... we have to import everything

Tugela Contributing Member • Posts: 755
Re: Samsung NX cameras and audio/Mic Input - The reason for the flop in sales of the NX cameras...

flip 21 wrote:

Tugela wrote:

flip 21 wrote:

The absensce of a mic input is a drawback. Every review says that it is. Is a disadvantage against the Panasonic G7, for instances. It's in every review a read...

Bad áudio is very common on NX cameras

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKzcKWPJVvQ

I have never seen a microphone mounted on a small ILC. Ever. No doubt some people do use them on larger ILCs, but by and large those people don't shoot that sort of video with small travel cameras.

Here you go. It too me just a mouse clik...

Have you seen any Samsung camera with good sound quality? Even Samsung videocameras? Have you seen a Video Editing software with unusable audio quality? You haven't, and you know why? Because Video is undissociated from audio. Maybe Samsung only do perfect cameras for silent film... The problem here is the merge between still cameras and video cameras... some still photographers, doesn't want this to happen... they want to be stucked to tradicional still cameras... some still photographer just hate video... that's the truth...For some photographer, Canon 5D MArk II was the worst thing that could happened because it introduced good quality video in DSLR cameras....

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that everyone is doing it, or that most people are doing it, or even that some people are doing it.

Let me reiterate....I have never seen a mic attached to a small ILC. The only cameras I have ever seen them attached to are on 5D3s, and even then I can count those occasions on one hand and still have fingers left over. The same goes for dedicated video camcorders.

People who buy small consumer cameras almost never attach microphones to them. It is not a make or break feature when it comes to buying decisions, because that particular input is never used in 99%+ of those sorts of cameras.

It is one of those things that casual users have no need for.

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Nikon Coolpix P900 Sony RX100 V Nikon Coolpix P1000 Samsung NX1
Tugela Contributing Member • Posts: 755
Re: There are better reasons for the lack of sales

ShootMeAlready wrote:

Lets discuss NX1 as a stills camera. Its not any better than a 70D.

As soon as you said that I started laughing and didn't read any further.

 Tugela's gear list:Tugela's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Sony RX100 V Nikon Coolpix P1000 Samsung NX1
Kisaha Senior Member • Posts: 2,300
Re: Samsung NX cameras and bad audio quality/Hiss

flip 21 wrote:

Kisaha wrote:

flip 21 wrote:

Where are you from?

Greece, so more or less similar market to the Portuguese one, actually the 2 countries are the most financially similar in EU.

Yes.. .we are both poor These American dudes, gemans, etc, have loads of cash, they should offered us some NX1 cameras this christmas... Are you listening people? ehehhe

They have more money, and their cameras are cheaper... we have to import everything

I had Portuguese friends when I was studying cinema in England, and some people I know live in Lisbon, so I have an insight of your society.

Maybe they are in this situation because they did some things right, a few decades ago, and they took better decisions than our governments and the people, that vote for these governments.

Still, there was (and still is) a certain amount of external interference in Greek and Portuguese politics, but maybe this is WAY off topic, and that happens all the time in this world.

If I took as an indication, how angry you are with the lack of mic in in certain Samsung cameras, the political situation in Portugal (now, but especially "then") must make you really mad!

I am sure Portugal and Greece are very nice places to be though, and it is not that bad, maybe "poorer" than before, but dissent, nevertheless, something that is not a certainty for richer countries, and most of the poorest ones.

Sorry for the off topic.

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