finally have what we always wanted: HEVC support in Adobe Premiere!

MikeDPR wrote:

zipcode wrote:

neosushi wrote:

I don't have this problem with Premiere Pro.
My videos are exactly the same if I open them with MPLAYERX or with Premiere Pro. No conversion applied just the "raw" H265 file.

Same here. mpc-hc playback and premiere imported h265 look exactly the same.

Interesting. What are your nx1 settings? I used 0-255, gamma DR and blacks are crushed when imported to PP. No problem with MPC-HC. I wonder if it's specific to the camera settings.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I have an nx500. Where I don't have any options but I think it's 0-255 (as should be normal). I tried more than 1 clip, and I'm very sure they are exactly the same.

Also, I think native support is overrated tbh. Everybody was complaining about the extra transcoding step, but actually it could save time.

My workflow: avisynth directshowsource + encoding to lossless utvideo 4:2:0 in virtualdub(there's 4:2:2 too if you want, but will take more space). This operation is Fast, realtime encoding at 1080p50. Of course, you'll need some good hdd space. So where is the time saving you ask? It's the instant seeking in the stream. With the native hevc, seeking will be damn slow. With lossless it's instant. Depending on what you do with the footage, this can save lots of actual work time. And it's lossless. Why would anyone encode to slower and not lossless prores is beyond me.

I refer back to the original post when I first discovered this problem:

I have found that applying the brightness and contrast filter to all clips using these settings brings it back fairly close to the original exposure: brightness -3, contrast -15. (Video Effects, Color Correction, Brightness & Contrast), I use these settings on an adjustment layer.

I have found that "Brightness & Contrast" is the only filter that actually makes the difference and returns the clip to almost original settings, please try it and report, thanks.

Melidonia wrote:

Happy Daze wrote:

I refer back to the original post when I first discovered this problem:

I have found that applying the brightness and contrast filter to all clips using these settings brings it back fairly close to the original exposure: brightness -3, contrast -15. (Video Effects, Color Correction, Brightness & Contrast), I use these settings on an adjustment layer.

I have found that "Brightness & Contrast" is the only filter that actually makes the difference and returns the clip to almost original settings, please try it and report, thanks.

Thank you, with your settings, i can recover the burned highlights.

It's my pleasure, I'm happy that it worked for you.

I'm coming back to this thread to post what I found out in the meantime.

The 0-255 files on nx1/nx500 are odd. At least on nx500, since that's all I have. Yes, they are flagged as fullrange, but not in the correct way I think. It's basically like having a 16-235 played back as 0-255, so it is indeed blackcrashed. My current guess is that no decoder currently actually looks for any flags, it is all default to 16-235.

Now the funny thing is, I said files look the same played back as in premiere imported. And it's true. But that's because the playback is crushed too, in VLC, or mphc. I just didn't realize it until now.

So basically so many people having problems with playback and encoding was actually to their benefit, because by some lucky coincidence ffmpeg converts 0-255 with a pc>tv level conversion by default.

I can't yet find a way to properly play it back yet. Selecting 16-235 output in LAV doesn't change anything, it's confusing, there is something I don't understand here. But I will find a way.

Also importing directly in premiere shows the footage crushed as on playback, but can be recovered for some reason with highlight/HDR white, contrast etc, but not sure it can be made to the exact same look.

So for people who want to use lossless footage before grading do a ffms or dss2 in avisynth and absolutely add a ColorYUV(levels="PC->TV"), or else you get a permanently crushed lossless file.

EDIT after some more trying around: the only way I find currently to playback correctly is  to use madvr renderer. EVR definitely is crushed, and so are all the other renderers. I think madvr is the only one that has source range detection. Press ctrl+j and you can see that it says: fullrange(says upstream). For blurays etc it is detected as limited range and they are also displayed correctly of course.

But it's still odd to me that ffms2 decodes it crushed as well considering it detects correctly it's fullrange.

More EDIT: in VLC, unchecking the option use hardware YUV>RGB conversions solves the problem. So it may be somewhat related to video card as well (I have nvidia)? BTW, range is correct with that setting even on other 16-235 clips.

Also, unrelated, using NVIDIA cuvid in lav decoding options is the best speed for my card (gtx 970 which has the so called hybrid accelerated decoding) with about 30% cpu usage vs the 35 of DXVA2 and 70% of pure software (none).

So the conclusion for now is to absolutely not use 0-255 if you have an nx1, I seriously doubt you actually get any benefit, besides the massive headache of handling it properly.

I'm coming back to this thread to post what I found out in the meantime.

The 0-255 files on nx1/nx500 are odd. At least on nx500, since that's all I have. Yes, they are flagged as fullrange, but not in the correct way I think. It's basically like having a 16-235 played back as 0-255, so it is indeed blackcrashed. My current guess is that no decoder currently actually looks for any flags, it is all default to 16-235.

Now the funny thing is, I said files look the same played back as in premiere imported. And it's true. But that's because the playback is crushed too, in VLC, or mphc. I just didn't realize it until now.

So basically so many people having problems with playback and encoding was actually to their benefit, because by some lucky coincidence ffmpeg converts 0-255 with a pc>tv level conversion by default.

I can't yet find a way to properly play it back yet. Selecting 16-235 output in LAV doesn't change anything, it's confusing, there is something I don't understand here. But I will find a way.

Also importing directly in premiere shows the footage crushed as on playback, but can be recovered for some reason with highlight/HDR white, contrast etc, but not sure it can be made to the exact same look.

So for people who want to use lossless footage before grading do a ffms or dss2 in avisynth and absolutely add a ColorYUV(levels="PC->TV"), or else you get a permanently crushed lossless file.

EDIT after some more trying around: the only way I find currently to playback correctly is  to use madvr renderer. EVR definitely is crushed, and so are all the other renderers. I think madvr is the only one that has source range detection. Press ctrl+j and you can see that it says: fullrange(says upstream). For blurays etc it is detected as limited range and they are also displayed correctly of course.

But it's still odd to me that ffms2 decodes it crushed as well considering it detects correctly it's fullrange.

More EDIT: in VLC, unchecking the option use hardware YUV>RGB conversions solves the problem. So it may be somewhat related to video card as well (I have nvidia)? BTW, range is correct with that setting even on other 16-235 clips.

Also, unrelated, using NVIDIA cuvid in lav decoding options is the best speed for my card (gtx 970 which has the so called hybrid accelerated decoding) with about 30% cpu usage vs the 35 of DXVA2 and 70% of pure software (none).

So the conclusion for now is to absolutely not use 0-255 if you have an nx1, I seriously doubt you actually get any benefit, besides the massive headache of handling it properly.

And what do you suggest for the NX500? There is no 0-255 option in camera.

Ok, took a file (all files on nx500 are 0-255 and you can't change that), straight to premiere pro, and export. Indeed h265 file is output as 0-255 and to h264 it outputs as 16-235 but without any conversion, so it's just clipped, or at least it's played back as clipped (with any decoder/renderer), because if I do a pc>tv conversion in avisynth it appears correct again (I'm quite confused here, there's something I don't understand about how this range flagging works).

MikeDPR, not sure what you mean by washed out look playing 16-235 on 0-255. That's pretty much the case of every video file until now (like dvd and bluray played back on pc) and they are not washed. You're lucky I think that the 0-255 hevc files show correctly for you. What decoder/renderer combination are you using? As I said, on my nvidia card the only option I found that works is using madvr as renderer or using software YUV>RGB conversion option in VLC (which is very slow).

I think all this 0-255 business is kinda 'new' for consumer video that's why the decoders and renderers simply don't expect it and handle it as 16-235. I'm sure that this will be fixed now that we found out there is a problem here, LAV, VLC and premiere are still actively developed.

The way I'll handle my files for now before importing to premiere is: avisynth file>ffms2>ColorYUV(levels="PC->TV")>save as utvideo 4:2:0 in virtualdubmod. This is about twice as fast and only a bit bigger than using rockymountains and exporting to prores 444 hq, and it's lossless too, and seeking is faster... But using rockymountains or straight ffmpeg will result in correct 16-235 file, same pc>tv conversion seems to be applied.

What about AME (Adobe Media Encoder which also opens HEVC natively)? Since I edit in FCPX (and also have Adobe creative cloud) on a MAC, first I encode Samsung NX1 files using a custom 4K to ProRes 4K preset (I use this preset for both my 4K and 120fps footage since AME uses "up to 4K"). I can go through the footage there and in the Effects tab section there are a few interesting tweaks available: Lumetri Look/Lut - I often find Midtones Desaturation helpful (if the color profile has switched back to standard as it likes to do), and there is SDR conform as well as a Video Limiter with quite a few options. I have not tested all these on a scope, but it might be worth a try, especially for FCPX users...