E-M5 vs E-M10 Mark II

emossg wrote:

I checked both of these cameras specs from Olympus site, and E-M5 seems to be better or equal in every other way than EVF. E-M10 Mark II has sharper EVF with larger magnification. Well, E-M10 has newer software, but it didn't seem to give much advantage.

They both are quite similar in size. Small form factor is really important for me. E-M5 is slightly wider and taller, but much thinner than E-M10 Mark II. E-M10 Mark II looks much better, but that isn't really an important factor.

From price point, you can't really compare these. Used E-M5 is dirty cheap as E-M10 Mark II is new and cannot be found used yet. E-M10 Mark II costs twice as much.

Are there some features I might have missed just by looking specs? Usability for example. Button placement, feeling of buttons, size of the body, noise, etc.

I currently have E-PM2 and I want camera that is still small, but has more control on buttons rather than menu. I use camera mostly when traveling, but I do shoot landscapes, domestic animals and macro. I would like to get more into macro photography.

I shoot a a lot inside in low light, so image-stabilization is quite important for me.

Assuming you're talking about the original E-M5, the Olympus range has evolved quite a lot (sometimes beneath the surface) since then.  The E-M10 II is the latest OM-D model, whilst the E-M5 was the first; the E-M5 effectively became the mid-range model of three (top being the later E-M1, bottom the yet-later original E-M10); the E-M10 II sits just above the original E-M10 in the range.  The E-M5 was of course superceded by the E-M5 II, which moved some way upmarket.  Olympus always adds features to its latest model, even if it occupies a lower point in the range, so the E-M10 II represents the fourth set of evolutions since the E-M5.

So, the obvious differences between the specific models you mention, the E-M5 and E-M10 II, are that the earlier E-M5 is weatherproof and is compatible with the two-part power grip (you can opt to only use the grip portion, or add the compartment with extra battery space and controls for portrait orientation).  The E-M10 II will only take a grip which extends the size of the camera and grip, but has no power or controls.

Speaking of power, the E-M10 and E-M10 II use the same battery as your E-PM2; the E-M5 uses a different battery and charger (shared with the E-M5 II and E-M1).

Both E-M10 models ARE noticeably smaller and lighter in the hand than the E-M5 models, even if it isn't obvious in specs and photos.  The E-M5 is not "much thinner" than the E-M10 II; it's just that the thumb grip on the back has got deeper with each generation; that has made it feel more secure, though the E-M10 II is the only one to have it made of hard (albeit leatherette pattern-moulded) polycarbonate, which I find a bit slippy, whereas all the others have it made of a flexible, rubberised material (though the original E-M5 only has a slight texture to it).

Regarding feel, the E-M5 was often criticised for its button feel - the weatherproofing makes most of them "spongy" with no obvious click in their travel.  This is not the case on the E-M10 II.

Many people (myself included) find the main dials of the Mark II models (which are taller, lighter-clicked and slightly altered in lateral position relative to each other) a big improvement.  Some will prefer the older layout, nevertheless.

The E-M10 II has a much higher resolution LCD monitor, versus the OLED of the E-M5.

I do find the image processor of the E-M10 II better than that of the E-M5 (they are a different generation and the newer one corrects more types of chromatic aberration and is faster; I think it gets slightly tweaked with each new model).

The E-M10 II has a built in flash which is lacking on the E-M5; the latter comes with the FL-LM2, which is very like the FL-LM1 of your E-PM2 but slightly larger and more powerful, weatherproof and black.  The E-M10 II however is compatible with the FL-LM3 of the E-M5 Mark II which is a very excellent little flash with a tilt and swivel head, powered by the camera - the FL-LM3 can be bought separately for a reasonable price.  This little flash is NOT compatible with earlier models.

The E-M10 II has a lot of new features through being more recent; here are those I can remember(!):

It has the wonderful Live Composite feature (recommend you read up about it to see if it is useful to you).

It has the focus bracketing feature which is great fun and very useful for macros.

It has 0-second Anti Shock (electronic first curtain shutter - EFCS) operation as an option - this is absent from the E-M5.  You might have occasionally seen shutter shock on the E-PM2 - unexpected unsharp results in the 1/100 to 1/160 range typically, sometimes with a slight double-image of small, contrasty edges).  EFCS eradicates this.  The E-M5 is sometimes (but not often) affected by shutter shock but has no EFCS option.  It does however have a slightly softer-sounding shutter.

The E-M10 II also has the option of silent shooting (fully electronic shutter) which can be very useful in certain situations (this increases the top shutter speed available to 1/16,000).  It has certain limitations - not usable with flash (except in focus bracketing), can show horizontal banding at certain shutter speeds under certain types of lighting, can skew very fast moving subjects.

The E-M10 II's EVF is higher resolution but is OLED, which can be too contrasty for some and can draw attention to slight variations in its brightness.  It has the option of automatic brightness adjustment (absent on the E-M5) and S-OVF mode which makes it much less contrasty (again, no such option on the E-M5, though arguably it doesn't need it).  I do find the E-M10 II's EVF optics feel slightly more "tunnel like" for some reason, though it's still a good unit.  The eyecup is less prone to coming off accidentally than on the E-M5.

The E-M10 II's proximity detector for the EVF seems a tad over-sensitive (a sin shared with the E-M5 II but none of the others).  However, it is helpfully disabled with the screen tilted - not so on the original E-M5, so you could get the screen blanking as you touched it with that one.

You can assign MySets to unused positions on the mode dial on the E-M10 II if you wish.  You cannot on the E-M5.

There are more Art Filters on the latest models, and you can do in-camera HDR shooting too with auto-alignment on the newer OM-D models like the E-M10 II; similarly, it offers keystone correction.

You can get the E-M10 II to remember your last-used position in the menu if required (no such feature on the E-M5).

You can use your thumb to move the AF point whilst looking through the EVF on the E-M10 II if required.  Not possible on any other OM-D.

The original E-M5 had a rather odd EVF behaviour - it is nigh-on impossible to get playback images (particularly instant review) into the EVF - this is not the case on subsequent models.

Video features (which I don't use much myself) have developed a lot between the two models too.

I am bound to have missed something, but hopefully you see that there are a LOT of usability improvements on the later OM-D models.  A lot came in with the E-M1 and E-M10 (and the E-M1 has had loads of big firmware updates too; the E-M5 only had one major update) with a whole swathe of other useful evolutions on the E-M5 II and E-M10 II.

berni29 wrote:

Hi

To put it bluntly do not even consider the EM5 over the EM10 or EM10 mkII. If you have to have weather sealing to go along with your weather sealed lenses, then get an EM1.

Or an E-M5 II - gorgeous camera.  I know it varies from person to person, but even after firmware 4.0 on the E-M1, I still prefer the E-M5 II to it on a subjective level (though the unique-to-E-M1 focus stacking is great fun through being so easy....).  All a matter of taste, of course as the E-M1 has plenty of its own unique advantages (like PDAF etc.).

There has been a lot written about the EM5 vs EM10. I have had and enjoyed extensive use with both. I currently have an EM1 and EM10 (with grip) and will soon be upgrading the EM10 to the mkII version just for the trackpad AF and improved ergonomics over the original.

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Berni29
EM1, EM-10, GM1 + Pana 12-32mm, 35-100mm f2.8, 20mm f1.7, Voight 17.5mm f0.95, Oly 45mm, 50mm F2 macro, (prev EM5, GH1, E30, E510, E1, E300, LX3)

yonsito wrote:

The two biggest advantages of the E-M10 in my opinion:

- The E-M5 has no focus peaking AFAIK. Very nice to have if you're focussing manually.

- The E-M5 has no wifi. I don't use this daily but it's been quite useful sometimes.

Indeed!  Told you I'd miss something...   Good catches.

Other late thoughts:

The E-M5 has a separate card slot on the side; the E-M10 II has its card slot in the battery compartment on the bottom.

The latest models (i.e. the Mark IIs) won't let you do that odd display mode where you have a blank, black rear screen, still illuminated, just displaying the level gauges.  I believe a few people do use/like that.

If you're so inclined, the Mark II cameras have the separate, battery-life-extending (but possibly irritating or almost heart attack-inducing for the unwary, like I was on first experiencing it) Quick Sleep mode, which shuts the camera down abruptly if you're not looking through the EVF for long.  Can be disabled, of course.

sderdiarian wrote:

Helen wrote:

emossg wrote:

From price point, you can't really compare these. Used E-M5 is dirty cheap as E-M10 Mark II is new and cannot be found used yet. E-M10 Mark II costs twice as much.

The E-M10 is $549 through Monday; now, that's dirt cheap for a camera that has the latest technology/features at the sacrifice of a weathersealed body (the E-M5's one remaining plus).

In the UK (where I am) there's not all that much discounting on the OM-D's, even though we have had Black Friday.  Typical, and not relevant to the OP or yourself, just taking the opportunity to moan a bit.

I would like to get more into macro photography.

Focus bracketing in the E-M10 II will aid in this.

Definitely.  Great fun - even inspired me to dig the tripod out.

I shoot a a lot inside in low light, so image-stabilization is quite important for me.

Forgot to say to the OP that this is the same in both the cameras specifically mentioned as of interest.  The original E-M10 of course "only" has 3-axis stabilization, which is theoretically less good but seems good enough, actually, and better than the 2-axis system of the E-PM2 they are currently using.

Assuming you're talking about the original E-M5, the Olympus range has evolved quite a lot (sometimes beneath the surface) since then.

Both E-M10 models ARE noticeably smaller and lighter in the hand than the E-M5 models.

Not an advantage, IMHOP. There's small, and there's too small. I prefer the taller grip and more solid feel of the E-M5.

One of those personal things - the OP seems to be motivated towards smallness as they specifically highlight it.  So I suspect the smaller E-M10 models are an advantage for them.

Regarding feel, the E-M5 was often criticised for its button feel - the weatherproofing makes most of them "spongy" with no obvious click in their travel. This is not the case on the E-M10 II.

I've never noticed this as in any way an issue in 3 years of use, overblown IMOP. Instead, it's simply a comfort knowing that should any water get on my camera, it will not fry the electronics; great insurance.

Have to agree with you about the feel of the original E-M5 buttons - they don't click, but I don't find it bothersome.  Another thought: the placement of the playback button was arguably improved a bit on the original E-M10 and has got much more logically placed and consistent on the Mark II models (of both '5 and '10 varieties) - now positioned as on the E-M1.

Many people (myself included) find the main dials of the Mark II models (which are taller, lighter-clicked and slightly altered in lateral position relative to each other) a big improvement. Some will prefer the older layout, nevertheless.

Latter (i.e., in the E-M5), likely a victim of being used to it .

The E-M10 II has a much higher resolution LCD monitor, versus the OLED of the E-M5.

I've compared my E-M5's screen to that of a friends E-M10, and much prefer the brighter and better color in the OLED.

Can't say I've noticed that variation myself, though I can see more detail on the screens of more recent models.

The E-M10 II has a lot of new features through being more recent; here are those I can remember(!):

It has 0-second Anti Shock (electronic first curtain shutter - EFCS) operation as an option - this is absent from the E-M5. The E-M5 is sometimes (but not often) affected by shutter shock but has no EFCS option.

For an E-M5 user, I'd posit this is the singular greatest improvement offered by the E-M10 series.

It is a must-have for me.  Though the E-P5 and E-M1 were the ones to most benefit from its addition (in my experience).

It does however have a slightly softer-sounding shutter.

Yes, I still find myself noticing and enjoying it in my E-M5, a lovely soft sound of quality.

Though even it sounds loud if you hear an E-M5 Mark II.  Honestly, that takes the medal for nicest-sounding shutter ever (for me).  Almost as quiet as a Panasonic GM model, but with a much nicer, "proper shutter" timbre.  Lovely.

The E-M10 II also has the option of silent shooting (fully electronic shutter) which can be very useful in certain situations (this increases the top shutter speed available to 1/16,000). It has certain limitations - not usable with flash (except in focus bracketing), can show horizontal banding at certain shutter speeds under certain types of lighting, can skew very fast moving subjects.

See E-M5's already quiet shutter above, never an issue in a public space. And 1/16,000 sounds great, but it's not good for action - a head scratcher there.

Same with all the current iterations of silent shutters unfortunately.  But the silence is truly that, and that can be useful sometimes.

The E-M10 II's EVF is higher resolution but is OLED, which can be too contrasty for some and can draw attention to slight variations in its brightness. It has the option of automatic brightness adjustment (absent on the E-M5) and S-OVF mode which makes it much less contrasty (again, no such option on the E-M5, though arguably it doesn't need it). I do find the E-M10 II's EVF optics feel slightly more "tunnel like" for some reason, though it's still a good unit. The eyecup is less prone to coming off accidentally than on the E-M5.

Hadn't heard of the "tunnel view" in the E-M10 II's EVF, good to know. In any case, the change in magnification is so small as to be almost meaningless, IMOP.

It's slight, but I notice it.  It is very contrasty, I find, perhaps too much at times, though a quick Fn button press of the S-OVF feature instantly tames it.

The E-M10 II's proximity detector for the EVF seems a tad over-sensitive (a sin shared with the E-M5 II but none of the others). However, it is helpfully disabled with the screen tilted - not so on the original E-M5, so you could get the screen blanking as you touched it with that one.

Never had an issue here.

You can assign MySets to unused positions on the mode dial on the E-M10 II if you wish. You cannot on the E-M5.

A nice feature, for sure.

There are more Art Filters on the latest models, and you can do in-camera HDR shooting too with auto-alignment on the newer OM-D models like the E-M10 II; similarly, it offers keystone correction.

HDR, another nice feature I'd use as well.

You can use your thumb to move the AF point whilst looking through the EVF on the E-M10 II if required. Not possible on any other OM-D.

I believe this is now available on the E-M1 and E-M5 II via FW updates.

Strangely, it's not.  I guess they had to leave one unique selling point for the E-M10 II.

Hi,

You never mentioned which lens(es) you are using but if you are going to use the epm2

"kit" 14-42 with your new body you are missing out on better performance regardless of body

you decide on.  Another topic for sure and a real kettle of worms (or fish).

cheers,

Joe

Helen wrote:

The E-M10 II's EVF is higher resolution but is OLED, which can be too contrasty for some and can draw attention to slight variations in its brightness.

It is not slight variations in brightness, it is a flicker - the brightness remains the same.

My G3 and G5 have auto brightness EVFs and the brightness does vary but they do not flicker.

However, I wonder if the auto brightness feature has anything to do with the flicker?

Allan

I have following lenses from Olympus 17mm/F1.8, 25mm/F1.8, 45mm/F1.8 and 60mm/F2.8 Macro lens. I also have Samyang 7.5mm/F3.5 fish eye lense. I have owned 40-150mm 1:4.0-5.6 R, but I didn't like it and couldn't find any use for it.

Helen wrote:

Assuming you're talking about the original E-M5

Yes, I am talking about original E-M5. I was going to get E-M5 Mark II, but then Olympus released E-M10 Mark II and I have ever since been battling between these models and only recently I have started to consider E-M5 as in time it was released it was really good camera and still is.

So, the obvious differences between the specific models you mention, the E-M5 and E-M10 II, are that the earlier E-M5 is weatherproof and is compatible with the two-part power grip (you can opt to only use the grip portion, or add the compartment with extra battery space and controls for portrait orientation). The E-M10 II will only take a grip which extends the size of the camera and grip, but has no power or controls.
Speaking of power, the E-M10 and E-M10 II use the same battery as your E-PM2; the E-M5 uses a different battery and charger (shared with the E-M5 II and E-M1).

Weather sealing is nice, and I am planning to get Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 at some point for single lense setup, but I really doubt I will ever need weather sealing. My experience with cameras has shown that every body can take light rain, snow or random splashes.

I currently have 2 batteries and I carry extra one with me when traveling. E-PM2 has shorter battery life than E-M10 II, but still I have never run out of battery while on field. I doubt I will ever need battery grip for battery life. I want to keep my setup as light and small as possible so I douby I will ever get one for stability either. I had forgotten that E-M10 Mark II uses same battery, I knew it before but it had slipped from my mind. This one definitely saves some trouble of getting extra batteries.

Both E-M10 models ARE noticeably smaller and lighter in the hand than the E-M5 models, even if it isn't obvious in specs and photos.

This is good to know. Specs and photos make them look about same size, but then again when I look E-M10 Mark II photos on palm of someones hand, it looks incredible small.

Regarding feel, the E-M5 was often criticised for its button feel - the weatherproofing makes most of them "spongy" with no obvious click in their travel. This is not the case on the E-M10 II.
Many people (myself included) find the main dials of the Mark II models (which are taller, lighter-clicked and slightly altered in lateral position relative to each other) a big improvement. Some will prefer the older layout, nevertheless.

This is one of my biggest fears. Small usability problems can be quite annoying. I use quite a lot Olympus OM-2 film camera. Older OM series has heavily inspired E-M10 Mark II layout so I guess I would be right at home with it.

The E-M10 II has a built in flash which is lacking on the E-M5; the latter comes with the FL-LM2, which is very like the FL-LM1 of your E-PM2 but slightly larger and more powerful, weatherproof and black. The E-M10 II however is compatible with the FL-LM3 of the E-M5 Mark II which is a very excellent little flash with a tilt and swivel head, powered by the camera - the FL-LM3 can be bought separately for a reasonable price. This little flash is NOT compatible with earlier models.

I had forgotten that E-PM2 came with flash. I have never used it. I still have my speedlite, transmitter and receivers from my Canon setup. I have been using that one as off-camera flash. I have never really got into using on-camera flash. It is something I should learn.

The E-M10 II has a lot of new features through being more recent; here are those I can remember(!):

It has the wonderful Live Composite feature (recommend you read up about it to see if it is useful to you).

Oh, I didn't know about this feature. I watched few videos about it and it seems quite handy. I remember when I shot northern lights and fireworks for a first time. What a mess. I think I made out with single good image from fireworks and none from northern lights.

That reminded me about Olympus Image Share software, does it work well? I am mostly interested about using it as remote controller. I have shutter cable, but it would be one less device to carry if I could use my phone. I am also interested of sharing photos straight to my smartphone for instant sharing.

It has the focus bracketing feature which is great fun and very useful for macros.

This one could be handy, I currently have inexpensive macro rail and it is quite horrible to use.

It has 0-second Anti Shock (electronic first curtain shutter - EFCS) operation as an option - this is absent from the E-M5. You might have occasionally seen shutter shock on the E-PM2 - unexpected unsharp results in the 1/100 to 1/160 range typically, sometimes with a slight double-image of small, contrasty edges). EFCS eradicates this. The E-M5 is sometimes (but not often) affected by shutter shock but has no EFCS option. It does however have a slightly softer-sounding shutter.
The E-M10 II also has the option of silent shooting (fully electronic shutter) which can be very useful in certain situations (this increases the top shutter speed available to 1/16,000). It has certain limitations - not usable with flash (except in focus bracketing), can show horizontal banding at certain shutter speeds under certain types of lighting, can skew very fast moving subjects.

This is actually frequent problem for me. Its annoying. I have done every possible "fix" I have found on forums, but none of them work and to be honest I never expected them to work.

Silent shutter and softer-sounding shutter noise are good, because I shoot quite a lot of animals. They tend to hear the shutter noise and then come to inspect the camera. Quite hard to take candid photos of them if they are sniffing the front element of lense.

There are more Art Filters on the latest models, and you can do in-camera HDR shooting too with auto-alignment on the newer OM-D models like the E-M10 II; similarly, it offers keystone correction.

I have never used Art Filters, but I guess they can be lot of fun. In-camera HDR is nice. I have done few HDR shots, and it is always hassle to combine photos on post-processing. I don't shoot HDR often, so I think this feature would be really useful for me because I have not mastered editing HDR photos and with my shooting rates I doubt I never will.

Keystone correction is a another feature I had no idea existed. It seems darn handy. Does it work with every lense?

I am bound to have missed something, but hopefully you see that there are a LOT of usability improvements on the later OM-D models. A lot came in with the E-M1 and E-M10 (and the E-M1 has had loads of big firmware updates too; the E-M5 only had one major update) with a whole swathe of other useful evolutions on the E-M5 II and E-M10 II.

Wow, that was quite a lot. It seems that I would greatly benefit from E-M10 II. It has useful features, it is smaller and usability of it is better than E-M5.

I will look more into what E-M10 II has to offer, but I think it will be my choice. Thanks!

I have heard about this flickering issue, but it seems like it only affects some camera bodies or only some people see it.

I think only em1 and em5ii support remote shooting according to the list of supported cameras in the software's documentation. I don't own a m43 camera so I have no first hand experience. Pm2 is high on my list for drone usage and em10ii and em5ii for general use.

No Black Friday deals. I live in EU, there were BF deals only on Mark I cameras.

E-M5 is around 270€ used. E-M10 II can only be found new at 599€ body only and 799€ with pancake kitlenss which I would like to try. E-M5 II is body only 1099€. I have not found E-M5 II used. E-M5 II is really nice, and before E-M10 II announcement it was the camera I was going to get, now that E-M10 II is out, it looks like best choice for me.

junk1 wrote:

I think only em1 and em5ii support remote shooting according to the list of supported cameras in the software's documentation. I don't own a m43 camera so I have no first hand experience. Pm2 is high on my list for drone usage and em10ii and em5ii for general use.

I have been thinking of re-purposing PM2 for aerial photography. What lense would you use? Olympus 12mm F2.0 has FOV around 74 degree and Samyang 7.5mm has 180 degree. Samyang would not really work and I think Olympus is really narrow for drone use.

Uh, oh!  Glad that's the case. I was confused about that....recall reading pl7 supported some type of remote shooting. Tethered would be useful for pros/business but WiFi is what I want.

Impulses wrote:

I think only em1 and em5ii support remote shooting according to the list of supported cameras in the software's documentation. I don't own a m43 camera so I have no first hand experience. Pm2 is high on my list for drone usage and em10ii and em5ii for general use.

Uh, those are the only that support tethered shooting, as in hooked up to a PC... OI Share works perfectly well for remote shooting on all recent bodies with Wi-Fi tho.