EM1 continous AF and tracking

Hi all, quick question please.

I've never used the EM1 before for anything other than single point AF. But we have just bought a new puppy to fill the hole in our lives left by the passing of our beloved cocker spaniel "Jake" a few weeks ago, and I want to document "Charlie's" life in photos and video.

With the advent of the Olympus Firmware V3 (which I have), one of the improvements was CAF and tracking, however there were also mixed comments about needed to have the correct frame rates (Continuous high vs medium), and Tracking vs non tracking etc. and it all got a bit confusing.

The question is then basically for an unpredictable Puppy, what's the best camera settings for CAF  modes, drive modes, tracking etc. from all you experts that have already figured this out ?

Whilst I know that the Olympus will not be as good as the best DSLR set ups, if I can get a 50% keeper rate, I'd be happy with that. I will be mainly using either the 12-40 F2.8 Pro or the 40-150 F2.8 Pro.

Thanks.

Fri13 wrote:

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed.

Would you mind sharing the links that prove this?

Julie

Fri13 wrote:

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed.

Perhaps you could produce your evidence for that statement.

Do you own a 7D MkII?  Have you shot with one?

I owned a 7D MkI for 6 years and I can tell you that my E-M1 with a red dot sight can shoot most of the things that the 7D could, but there is no way that the E-M1 has better C-AF accuracy and speed than the 7D MkI let alone the 7D MkII.  The lack of cross type AF points in the E-M1 can be a serious restriction for some targets.

I agree with your settings, by the way, but I don't think that you need 9fps for shooting a puppy.

Colin K. Work wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

Fri13 wrote:

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed.

Perhaps you could produce your evidence for that statement.

Do you own a 7D MkII? Have you shot with one?

I owned a 7D MkI for 6 years and I can tell you that my E-M1 with a red dot sight can shoot most of the things that the 7D could, but there is no way that the E-M1 has better C-AF accuracy and speed than the 7D MkI let alone the 7D MkII. The lack of cross type AF points in the E-M1 can be a serious restriction for some targets.

I'm not sure about this ... I would suggest the initial acquisition is faster and more reliable than the 7D, but once acquired the 7D holds focus better. But it does very according to subject and conditions. I think this accounts for the variety of reports on relative performance - depends what you shoot I guess.

Colin,

I have been shooting BIF recently with an EE-1 to find out what I can and cannot shoot with the E-M1. Using Sequential L and hybrid PDAF/CDAF the E-M1 is certainly worse at maintaining focus and tends to go in and out of focus as you track the bird. I have therefore switched entirely to Sequential H for BIF using the EE-1.

My impression using Sequential H is a little different to yours - I would say that the E-M1 is probably comparable to the 7D for maintaining focus but is sometimes slower at acquiring the initial focus. Shooting with an EE-1 you have to wait for the focus beep to know that focus has been acquired before starting to shoot and sometimes that takes a while. With the 7D the beep normally came faster and more reliably. I am having particular problems when the bird is coming head on in a very horizontal attitude and that could be due to the lack of cross type AF points on the E-M1 (although I would have thought that it would affect vertical targets more than horizontal).

The EE-1 has its own advantages and disadvantages - you can pick birds up extremely quickly but I get a lot of cut off wings because you can't see the viewfinder. I probably need to learn to shoot at a shorter focal length to allow more room for error. The EE-1 is great fun to use.

All in all, after about 6 months and 3000 or so BIF shots with the E-M1, I am at the situation where I can shoot everything with the E-M1/EE-1 that I could shoot with the 7D and I probably get comparable keeper rates, but I don't yet have the confidence with the E-M1 that I had with the 7D that I can nail a shot when shooting the most difficult targets.  If I was going out on a once in a lifetime wildlife opportunity I would prefer to have my 7D with me (if I still had it) rather than the E-M1, but not prefer it sufficiently to offset the disadvantage of carrying around heavy lenses like the 100-400mm that I used to shoot with.

I think that all this shows is that on-sensor PDAF is probably the way the mirrorless cameras are going to take over from DSLRs for C-AF. I hope that the next generation E-M1 has Liveview at higher fps rates, the option to choose between PDAF and hybrid AF and cross type PDAF focus points.

Chris R-UK wrote:

Colin K. Work wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

Fri13 wrote:

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed.

Perhaps you could produce your evidence for that statement.

Do you own a 7D MkII? Have you shot with one?

I owned a 7D MkI for 6 years and I can tell you that my E-M1 with a red dot sight can shoot most of the things that the 7D could, but there is no way that the E-M1 has better C-AF accuracy and speed than the 7D MkI let alone the 7D MkII. The lack of cross type AF points in the E-M1 can be a serious restriction for some targets.

I'm not sure about this ... I would suggest the initial acquisition is faster and more reliable than the 7D, but once acquired the 7D holds focus better. But it does very according to subject and conditions. I think this accounts for the variety of reports on relative performance - depends what you shoot I guess.

Colin,

I have been shooting BIF recently with an EE-1 to find out what I can and cannot shoot with the E-M1. Using Sequential L and hybrid PDAF/CDAF the E-M1 is certainly worse at maintaining focus and tends to go in and out of focus as you track the bird. I have therefore switched entirely to Sequential H for BIF using the EE-1.

My impression using Sequential H is a little different to yours - I would say that the E-M1 is probably comparable to the 7D for maintaining focus but is sometimes slower at acquiring the initial focus. Shooting with an EE-1 you have to wait for the focus beep to know that focus has been acquired before starting to shoot and sometimes that takes a while. With the 7D the beep normally came faster and more reliably. I am having particular problems when the bird is coming head on in a very horizontal attitude and that could be due to the lack of cross type AF points on the E-M1 (although I would have thought that it would affect vertical targets more than horizontal).

For horizontal targets that have little height, I flip the camera into portrait orientation, and then it locks focus extremely quickly even for very small targets.  Having the grip makes this much easier.  Some simply tilt the camera so that the target is not horizontal, but I find portrait orientation works more quickly.

The EE-1 has its own advantages and disadvantages - you can pick birds up extremely quickly but I get a lot of cut off wings because you can't see the viewfinder. I probably need to learn to shoot at a shorter focal length to allow more room for error. The EE-1 is great fun to use.

All in all, after about 6 months and 3000 or so BIF shots with the E-M1, I am at the situation where I can shoot everything with the E-M1/EE-1 that I could shoot with the 7D and I probably get comparable keeper rates, but I don't yet have the confidence with the E-M1 that I had with the 7D that I can nail a shot when shooting the most difficult targets. If I was going out on a once in a lifetime wildlife opportunity I would prefer to have my 7D with me (if I still had it) rather than the E-M1, but not prefer it sufficiently to offset the disadvantage of carrying around heavy lenses like the 100-400mm that I used to shoot with.

I think that all this shows is that on-sensor PDAF is probably the way the mirrorless cameras are going to take over from DSLRs for C-AF. I hope that the next generation E-M1 has Liveview at higher fps rates, the option to choose between PDAF and hybrid AF and cross type PDAF focus points.

-- hide signature --

Chris R

Fri13 wrote:

C-AF + Sequential H and use 10fps (it dropsautomatically to 9fps) for PDAF only continues autofocus. You need to keep subject inside PDAF focus group array on screen, or choose a AF point inside that.

Use 9-point AF grid if you have difficulties to keep small or normal AF point.

Don't use C-AF and Tracking (C-AF+Trk) as it drops camera back to CDAF+PDAF hybrid mode or you get only CDAF like with C-AF + Sequential L.

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed. And you don't get back/rear focus problems.

After consulting the collective brains trust on this very subject a few weeks ago I purchased an EM1 for shooting sports. To put it mildly the results were disappointing while the camera quickly acquired focus it quickly lost it with the net result that I was not getting anymore than around 50% of shots in focus. Slightly better than me using manual focus on my OM4. So I bit the bullet and bought a 5d mkiiii and I'm getting much better results in excess of 70% of the shots in focus with a Sigma 120-300 f2.8 and x2 converter.

Micro 4/3s has come a long way but this is one area in which it severely lacking, which is a shame as I would have preferred to use it rather than the dSLR.

Paul Amyes wrote:

Fri13 wrote:

C-AF + Sequential H and use 10fps (it dropsautomatically to 9fps) for PDAF only continues autofocus. You need to keep subject inside PDAF focus group array on screen, or choose a AF point inside that.

Use 9-point AF grid if you have difficulties to keep small or normal AF point.

Don't use C-AF and Tracking (C-AF+Trk) as it drops camera back to CDAF+PDAF hybrid mode or you get only CDAF like with C-AF + Sequential L.

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed. And you don't get back/rear focus problems.

After consulting the collective brains trust on this very subject a few weeks ago I purchased an EM1 for shooting sports. To put it mildly the results were disappointing while the camera quickly acquired focus it quickly lost it with the net result that I was not getting anymore than around 50% of shots in focus. Slightly better than me using manual focus on my OM4. So I bit the bullet and bought a 5d mkiiii and I'm getting much better results in excess of 70% of the shots in focus with a Sigma 120-300 f2.8 and x2 converter.

Micro 4/3s has come a long way but this is one area in which it severely lacking, which is a shame as I would have preferred to use it rather than the dSLR.

I am somewhat surprised at your 50% rate, but it would differ based on target, lens and camera settings.  I am not really surprised that your Canon/Sigma gives a somewhat better success rate.

My success rate with the Olympus was very poor when I first switched from a DSLR, but with experience with the camera and firmware updates, it improved greatly.

However, for me the success rate for the Canon would be much worse, since I would probably rarely use it, given the size and weight.

Fri13 wrote:

I think that all this shows is that on-sensor PDAF is probably the way the mirrorless cameras are going to take over from DSLRs for C-AF. I hope that the next generation E-M1 has Liveview at higher fps rates, the option to choose between PDAF and hybrid AF and cross type PDAF focus points.

I thing that PDAF is just a phase and in future we use more software based focusing with CDAF as it is promising once we get global shutters and we get away from the shutter etc.

It is just question of the time when we get better algorithms and processing power to do it well.

The big advantage of on sensor PDAF is that it enables DSLR lenses to be used on mirrorless cameras with no focusing speed penalty - that of course if why the E-M1 exists.

That is surely a big factor for Canon/Nikon/Pentax and the timing of any decision to move from DSLRs to mirrorless.

Chris R-UK wrote:

Fri13 wrote:

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed.

Perhaps you could produce your evidence for that statement.

Do you own a 7D MkII? Have you shot with one?

I owned a 7D MkI for 6 years and I can tell you that my E-M1 with a red dot sight can shoot most of the things that the 7D could, but there is no way that the E-M1 has better C-AF accuracy and speed than the 7D MkI let alone the 7D MkII. The lack of cross type AF points in the E-M1 can be a serious restriction for some targets.

Well, I shot with the 7D for several momth and i never was able to achieve this kind of long bursts of fast moving subjects:
E-M1 with EE-1 Dot Sight does sighthounds an RC boats.
Can't say anything about the 7D MKII but the MKI's C-SAF definitely is inferior to the one of the E-M1 when equipped with the EE-1 Dot Sight.

Paul Amyes wrote:

Fri13 wrote:

C-AF + Sequential H and use 10fps (it dropsautomatically to 9fps) for PDAF only continues autofocus. You need to keep subject inside PDAF focus group array on screen, or choose a AF point inside that.

Use 9-point AF grid if you have difficulties to keep small or normal AF point.

Don't use C-AF and Tracking (C-AF+Trk) as it drops camera back to CDAF+PDAF hybrid mode or you get only CDAF like with C-AF + Sequential L.

Oh and E-M1 can beat cameras like 7D Mk2 in C-AF accuracy and speed. And you don't get back/rear focus problems.

After consulting the collective brains trust on this very subject a few weeks ago I purchased an EM1 for shooting sports. To put it mildly the results were disappointing while the camera quickly acquired focus it quickly lost it with the net result that I was not getting anymore than around 50% of shots in focus. Slightly better than me using manual focus on my OM4. So I bit the bullet and bought a 5d mkiiii and I'm getting much better results in excess of 70% of the shots in focus with a Sigma 120-300 f2.8 and x2 converter.

Micro 4/3s has come a long way but this is one area in which it severely lacking, which is a shame as I would have preferred to use it rather than the dSLR.

Paul, you should have allowed yourself an adapting period. You have to opt for a slightly different approach, when shooting action with the E-M1. For success right from the start, the Panny GH4 with its (positively meant) C-AF for dummies would be the better solution, but if you want the maximum keeper rate, the E-M1 is the way to go.

Colin K. Work wrote:

The problem is that as of now, PDAF has neither the coverage or sensitivity of higher end DSLRs, so essentially while there is nothing wrong with PDAF in the right conditions, it's simply not as capable overall.

Do you know whether there is any fundamental reason why on sensor PDAF is always going to be inferior to the sort of PDAF system in a DSLR using a separate mirror assembly and PDAF array?  (Maybe that is one for the Science and Technology forum).

Canon has its dual pixel sensor that first arrived in the 70D and is also in the 7D MkII and that certainly gives PDAF coverage of the whole sensor.  However, as it is currently implemented, it doesn't seem to have as fast AF in Liveview as a top mirrorless camera.  I wonder why that is.  I also wonder why Canon hasn't put it in the EOS-M.