GX7 or OMD-E10?

Right, I had sold my E-PL1, E-PL2 and XZ-1 and am now looking for a replacement. I am still left with a Panasonic 14/2.5, Sigma 30/2.8 and the Olympus 40-150. I also have a Nissin Di466 flash which will also work on Panasonic I believe. My main gear is a Pentax K30 which I normally use with a Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 or a Sigma 8-16/4.5-5.6. As you can see, my choices are limited to mFT as I do not want to invest in another system all over again.

My wife had approved the purchase of a lighter (and upgrade to the E-PLs we had) camera than my Pentax setup when I do not want to carry that heavy weight setup around so her key requirements is smaller and lighter than that. While both the GX7 and E10 are both on the heavier end of the mFT format, we can live with it because with a mFT lens attached they will still be lighter than my K30 plus Sigma. I think both the GX7 and E10 are pretty close to the Pentax in image quality except ISO performance. Given the gear I still have left, I had narrowed the choices down to these two due to the requirements (in order of importance) for IBIS, VF (I actually still have a VF-2 but I don’t like using it), built in flash and hotshoe.

At the moment, I am torn between the GX7 and E10. I like the range finder looks and size of the GX7 (and in silver, it is like a big brother to my CM1!) but the 3-axis IBIS of the Olympus. My wife is not keen on the viewfinder hump because it “looks” like another dSLR. However I also really like the live composite feature of the E10 for star trails. However I am attempting to experiment with the Startrail program (when I do get a clear night, none are forecasted for the next 7 days!) with my Pentax first and if successful, the E10 will most likely go off my list.

So assuming that I cross the E10 off my list and go with the GX7, I do not really like the kit 14-42 lens and intend get it body only or if I can, the 20mm kit and to use it with either the Panasonic 12-32 PZ (compact and wider), Olympus 14-42 EZ (compact and longer) or Olympus 12-50 (more useful).

I am leaning heavily to the Olympus 12-50 because it has a similar range as my Sigma 17-70 but not the f2.8. I may get a pancake power zoom later.

So my questions are as follow:

1. Will the PZ of the Olympus work on the Panasonic body? Will it extend on its own on power on? What happens when the body goes to sleep?

2. Will the 2-axis IBIS of the Panasonic work well with the Olympus? Anyone tried this lens-body combo? Is it any good?

3. Will E-Zoom and M-Zoom work properly and the scale show up on the screen? I read somewhere that it will not work properly on the GX1.

4. Inversely, if I get the E10, can the Panasonic PZ lens work on it?

I know the title is kind of wrong as I am leaning towards the GX7, but maybe someone can convince me that the E10 is actually a better choice than the GX7?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Other cameras I had considered and discarded are:

1. Olympus E-P5/E-PL7/E-PM2 (no VF and/or no flash)

2. Panasonic GM1/5/GF7 (no VF and/or no flash and/or no hotshoe and no IBIS)

3. Olympus OM-D E1/5/10Mk.ii (too expensive)

4. Sony/Samsung/Fuji (buying into new system)

I did not post this Buying Advice forum as I am sure some fanboy will be telling me to get a Sony/Samsung/Fuji/Canon/Nikon instead and start a flame war.

Hi

I do not have a GX7, but I can tell you the EM10 is a really great camera. With the grip I think it is a clear winner.

alvinleong wrote:

Right, I had sold my E-PL1, E-PL2 and XZ-1 and am now looking for a replacement. I am still left with a Panasonic 14/2.5, Sigma 30/2.8 and the Olympus 40-150. I also have a Nissin Di466 flash which will also work on Panasonic I believe. My main gear is a Pentax K30 which I normally use with a Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 or a Sigma 8-16/4.5-5.6. As you can see, my choices are limited to mFT as I do not want to invest in another system all over again.

So you still own 14, 30 & 40-150?

My wife had approved the purchase of a lighter (and upgrade to the E-PLs we had) camera than my Pentax setup when I do not want to carry that heavy weight setup around so her key requirements is smaller and lighter than that. While both the GX7 and E10 are both on the heavier end of the mFT format, we can live with it because with a mFT lens attached they will still be lighter than my K30 plus Sigma. I think both the GX7 and E10 are pretty close to the Pentax in image quality except ISO performance. Given the gear I still have left, I had narrowed the choices down to these two due to the requirements (in order of importance) for IBIS, VF (I actually still have a VF-2 but I don’t like using it), built in flash and hotshoe.

At the moment, I am torn between the GX7 and E10. I like the range finder looks and size of the GX7 (and in silver, it is like a big brother to my CM1!) but the 3-axis IBIS of the Olympus.

The primitive IBIS of GX7 likely gives me around 1~1.5 stop stabilization. Before using an IBIS body, the OIS of 14-45 f/3.5 indeed allow me to shoot at slower shutter speed than 14 f/2.5. Under GX7, the storey has just been re-written on another side in favour of 14 over 14-45. IBIS of GX7 is not very great, but highly useful and it already allow me to shoot as slow as <1/8", well enough for my need whereas motion blur might worry me more if at slower speed.

My wife is not keen on the viewfinder hump because it “looks” like another dSLR.

Better try the evf of GX7. Some users including me like it, but some users hated it for the tunnel effect/rainbow effect.... EM10-I is on safe side, not as good as GX8, but comfortable to use.

However I also really like the live composite feature of the E10 for star trails. However I am attempting to experiment with the Startrail program (when I do get a clear night, none are forecasted for the next 7 days!) with my Pentax first and if successful, the E10 will most likely go off my list.

So assuming that I cross the E10 off my list and go with the GX7, I do not really like the kit 14-42 lens and intend get it body only or if I can, the 20mm kit and to use it with either the Panasonic 12-32 PZ (compact and wider), Olympus 14-42 EZ (compact and longer) or Olympus 12-50 (more useful).

Panny has only one Power Zoom lens, the 14-42 PZ. 12-32 is a tiny small lens originally to pair up with the GMs and it has a collapsible design. In operation, unlike 14-42 PZ which using power zoom/power focus, 12-32 uses manual control zoom.

As per general consensus, the best kit zoom of Panny should be 14-42 II/12-32, followed by 14-45, then 14-42 PZ (but complaint on SS although I am happy with mine) and the worst 14-42 I.

If I am you and would settle on GX7, I shall eye on Panny's 14-42 II or the tiny 12-32 (for its portability and wider) which are both the sharpest kit zooms. IIRC Oly's 12-50 (kit zom of EM5) had not been well received as its 14-42 II.

I am leaning heavily to the Olympus 12-50 because it has a similar range as my Sigma 17-70 but not the f2.8. I may get a pancake power zoom later.

I suppose 12-32 & your existing 45-150 could be a well pair of lenses for most general purpose shooting. Having the focal length divided into 2, you indeed might save a lot of weight on your neck if you don't need that extra reach. Indeed, 14-140 II could be another all-in-one good option, again a lens that is loved by many and also hated by a lot.

So my questions are as follow:

1. Will the PZ of the Olympus work on the Panasonic body? Will it extend on its own on power on? What happens when the body goes to sleep?

Should be. Don't know Oly's PZ, but Panny's PZ would extend on power up, extract back upon sleeping/power off.

2. Will the 2-axis IBIS of the Panasonic work well with the Olympus? Anyone tried this lens-body combo? Is it any good?

Should like any non OIS M43 lenses, GX7 could communicate with any native M43 lenses and and set the appropriate IBIS for the focal length in use.

3. Will E-Zoom and M-Zoom work properly and the scale show up on the screen? I read somewhere that it will not work properly on the GX1.

Not aware.

4. Inversely, if I get the E10, can the Panasonic PZ lens work on it?

I know the title is kind of wrong as I am leaning towards the GX7, but maybe someone can convince me that the E10 is actually a better choice than the GX7?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Other cameras I had considered and discarded are:

1. Olympus E-P5/E-PL7/E-PM2 (no VF and/or no flash)

2. Panasonic GM1/5/GF7 (no VF and/or no flash and/or no hotshoe and no IBIS)

3. Olympus OM-D E1/5/10Mk.ii (too expensive)

4. Sony/Samsung/Fuji (buying into new system)

I did not post this Buying Advice forum as I am sure some fanboy will be telling me to get a Sony/Samsung/Fuji/Canon/Nikon instead and start a flame war.

Small point of correction.  Panasonic has two PZ lenses...the 14-42 and the 45-175.  I especially like the 45-175 because it is the non-extending design, compact, light and sharp.

As others have said, if you can, get a chance to handle both. Totally different shooting experience. I had them both and kept the E-M10 since I'm left eyed and the "nose" touch focusing of the GX7 drove me nuts.

Image Quality is equal with, in my opinion, the jpg' of the Olympus having an edge and the Raw from the Panasonic being better.

It will all boil down to which one you like better in your hand and fits your shooting style better.

LMNCT wrote:

Small point of correction. Panasonic has two PZ lenses...the 14-42 and the 45-175. I especially like the 45-175 because it is the non-extending design, compact, light and sharp.

Others have suggested tilting the EVF or the LCD for us "lefties", but I found that to be a poor work around, at best. What I did do is disable the touch screen, then I had to repurpose the 4 way controller to do the job of setting the focus point. By this time I'd pretty much destroyed all the features of the GX7 and finally gave up. Others have more patience.

BTW, I also had the E-M10 II and had the same issues, even worse since I could not reliably turn the darn touch focus off.....two inadvertent nose taps and the devil appeared again.

If the eye thing is a problem, I'd get a used E-M10 for about $300 if you can find one in your part of the world, or save up for the E-M 5 II, like I did. Well worth the wait (I also found a good deal on a second used E-M5 II at about the same price as a new E-M10 II)

alvinleong wrote:

So, I suppose to get the best out of the IBIS of the GX7, my choices will be 12-32 pancake or the kit lens. I guess I will save money by getting it body only and buy an unboxed 12-32 and spend the saving on another prime like the new Panasonic 25/1.7.

The IBIS will work with Pany lenses, but only if they are not stabilized lenses (e.g. "OIS").

If the lens has Pany OIS, then the IBIS is disabled.

(On the GX8, the IBIS works hand-in-hand with the OIS, supposedly ... in reviews, it appears to work pretty well.)

alvinleong wrote:

P.S. Other cameras I had considered and discarded are:

1. Olympus E-P5/E-PL7/E-PM2 (no VF and/or no flash)

2. Panasonic GM1/5/GF7 (no VF and/or no flash and/or no hotshoe and no IBIS)

Just for the record, newer Panasonic camera GF6/GF7/GM1/GM5 can do Wireless Flash Master straight from it build-in flash.  My GF6 can control 4 groups of External Flashes wireless, each with separate power level.  The lack of hotshoe isn't a problem is you own an external flash that support wireless slaves.

I just came back to M43 and was choosing between low end Olympus and Panasonic.  I like the High/Mid-End Olympus like the EM5/EM10/ EM10 II, but I don't like the E-PL series much:

• 16:9 Ratio 3" LCD yield only 2.4" 4:3 ratio image on LCD.  I find this tiny & annoying
• E-PM2 has zero grip, slippery little sucker
• E-PL7 a tad thicker, but useless flippy LCD from bottom (stupid), prefer older E-PL5/6 from the top
• E-P5 (Expensive) if you can buy one @good price, buy it

I find Panasonic (in the used market) are generally CHEAPER.  Some great deal are:

• Panasonic G5 (if you want 360 degree LCD)
• Panasonic GF6 (selfie lcd + longer battery (same as GX7)
• Panasonic GF7 (best SELFIE camera ever created)
• Panasonic GM1 (shockingly small, a jewel of a camera)

I'll be blunt, there is no Future sticking to Pentax.  Sell them fast while there are still value in them.

alvinleong wrote:

alcelc wrote:

So you still own 14, 30 & 40-150?

The primitive IBIS of GX7 likely gives me around 1~1.5 stop stabilization. Before using an IBIS body, the OIS of 14-45 f/3.5 indeed allow me to shoot at slower shutter speed than 14 f/2.5. Under GX7, the storey has just been re-written on another side in favour of 14 over 14-45. IBIS of GX7 is not very great, but highly useful and it already allow me to shoot as slow as <1/8", well enough for my need whereas motion blur might worry me more if at slower speed.

Better try the evf of GX7. Some users including me like it, but some users hated it for the tunnel effect/rainbow effect.... EM10-I is on safe side, not as good as GX8, but comfortable to use.

Panny has only one Power Zoom lens, the 14-42 PZ. 12-32 is a tiny small lens originally to pair up with the GMs and it has a collapsible design. In operation, unlike 14-42 PZ which using power zoom/power focus, 12-32 uses manual control zoom.

As per general consensus, the best kit zoom of Panny should be 14-42 II/12-32, followed by 14-45, then 14-42 PZ (but complaint on SS although I am happy with mine) and the worst 14-42 I.

If I am you and would settle on GX7, I shall eye on Panny's 14-42 II or the tiny 12-32 (for its portability and wider) which are both the sharpest kit zooms. IIRC Oly's 12-50 (kit zom of EM5) had not been well received as its 14-42 II.

I suppose 12-32 & your existing 45-150 could be a well pair of lenses for most general purpose shooting. Having the focal length divided into 2, you indeed might save a lot of weight on your neck if you don't need that extra reach. Indeed, 14-140 II could be another all-in-one good option, again a lens that is loved by many and also hated by a lot.

Should be. Don't know Oly's PZ, but Panny's PZ would extend on power up, extract back upon sleeping/power off.

Should like any non OIS M43 lenses, GX7 could communicate with any native M43 lenses and and set the appropriate IBIS for the focal length in use.

That is right, I still have the 3 lens listed, along with a Panasonic wide converter and an Olympus Macro converter which I forgot to list. So I am kind of stuck with the mFT format unless a major reinvestment in some other formats.

So to get the best from the IBIS from the GX7, I need to use a M/POIS lens? I heard the IBIS works together with the lens' IS, is that correct?

No, only the Dual IS of GX8 could combine its IBIS & OIS to give a so called 6-axis stabilization (but according to testings, it is merely close to that of EM5-II, still not as good as yet).

GX7 would activate IBIS automatically for non OIS M43 lenses (auto setting) or MF legacy lenses (manual input of focal length in use). If OIS lens would be mounted, the IBIS of GX7 would be disabled automatically. So, if OIS off, you will have no stabilization at all.

Because I wear glasses all the time, I get the tunnel effect all the time even with the OVF on my K30. I guess I am used to it. Also, it is impossible for me to test any cameras due to the reason stated in another of my post.

I wore subscription glasses since school and in last 15 years, change to progress glasses. I never put off my glasses when shooting.

Yes, my mistake, I mean to say the Panasonic 12-32 pancake. I intend to get the Olympus 12-50 for flexibility and either the Panasonic 12-32 (cheaper) or Olympus 14-42 EZ for size.

I understand what you are saying about the general consensus of the 12-50, I had seen it myself too. I really have to think about this one as I am so used to the flexibility of my Sigma 17-70 (but not the weight!).

Yes, 12 is more useful than 14. As I have 7-14, mostly a 14-42 or 14-45 (my preference) could meet with my need better than a single 12-50. IMHO 42/45 vs 50 on the long end is merely of not much difference.

So, I suppose to get the best out of the IBIS of the GX7, my choices will be 12-32 pancake or the kit lens. I guess I will save money by getting it body only and buy an unboxed 12-32 and spend the saving on another prime like the new Panasonic 25/1.7.

The Dual IS of GX8 might give you extra stabilisation when using 12-32, not GX7. But GX7 might still be good for 25.

Al Bond wrote:

cameron2 wrote:

alvinleong wrote:

So, I suppose to get the best out of the IBIS of the GX7, my choices will be 12-32 pancake or the kit lens. I guess I will save money by getting it body only and buy an unboxed 12-32 and spend the saving on another prime like the new Panasonic 25/1.7.

The IBIS will work with Pany lenses, but only if they are not stabilized lenses (e.g. "OIS").

If the lens has Pany OIS, then the IBIS is disabled.

This may have been the case on earlier models but is incorrect on the E-M10. I have the E-M10 and there is the option to set whether it gives IBIS or the lens IS priority. I currently have it set to use IBIS and it works fine with my various Panny OIS lenses.

Sure .. the EM10 gives you the choice (but doesn't use them together). However, I was referring to his GX7, which doesn't give you the choice, and doesn't use the IBIS even if you turn the OIS switch on the lens to "OFF".

With the GX8, it will use the IBIS and it will use the OIS -- both at the same time!

gary0319 wrote:

Others have suggested tilting the EVF or the LCD for us "lefties", but I found that to be a poor work around, at best. What I did do is disable the touch screen, then I had to repurpose the 4 way controller to do the job of setting the focus point. By this time I'd pretty much destroyed all the features of the GX7 and finally gave up. Others have more patience.

BTW, I also had the E-M10 II and had the same issues, even worse since I could not reliably turn the darn touch focus off.....two inadvertent nose taps and the devil appeared again.

If the eye thing is a problem, I'd get a used E-M10 for about $300 if you can find one in your part of the world, or save up for the E-M 5 II, like I did. Well worth the wait (I also found a good deal on a second used E-M5 II at about the same price as a new E-M10 II)

Might be you do not have GX7 anymore. But it actually be essential for all touch AF cameras: well use of the shortcut key to return the focus point back to the center in case if it has been moved away by mistake.

In case of GX7, hit the "Disp" key when the focus point is still within a movable/adjustable status or if not, move it anywhere (not to confirm the new location) and hit "Disp". It should be similar operation for EM10-II. As if disable the Touch AF, Touch Pad (might affect all touch features as well?) feature and using the slower 4-way command control keys would reduce the camera back to a very primitive model.

I grow myself a routine of "touch LCD+hit Disp key" every time while putting the camera up to my face. It may be annoying, but doesn't spend time to do so and could have all touch features be ready to use...

alvinleong wrote:

My wife had approved the purchase of a lighter

You're on tight budget here mate!