Cheap Used Body for Video

I attended a wedding this past weekend, and the happy couple asked one friend and one family member to do the candid shooting for the event. As the friend-with-cameras, I was happy to oblige.

The day before the wedding, I get an email from the bride-to-be stating that for some reason or another, the guy that she had tasked with taking the video of the event fell through, and if I could cover. I happened to pack my tripod, so I said sure, knowing that while the PM2 doesn't do a great job, a tripod mounted camera would probably do a better job than an iPhone.

Anyway, the results are usable, and the audio is surprisingly clear for on-body microphones set up outdoors (at least it wasn't windy).

So now here's my question:

What's the cheapest way for me to have a 'video' oriented body to work with in case this happens again? I happen to have at least 4 weddings to attend in the next 9 months, one of which is already hinting to me that they're low on budget and time.

I know that Oly won't be the way to go with video, but I've never looked at Panasonics from a video perspective. My girlfriend (who will be attending all of these weddings with me, no pressure there...) runs with a GF3, but given the age of that body I doubt it would do any better than my E-PM2s, right?

I'm hoping for a viewfinder, 1080p recording for cropping/scaling to 720p in post, and preferably the option to hook up an external microphone.

Would a GH2 cut it? GX7 prices are also falling through the floor - would they work? The GX7 is fairly modern so would work as a stills body, too. I'd prefer not to spring for a GH3, as those are still pretty pricey (both new and used).

Thanks!

Paulmorgan wrote:

aliasfox wrote:

I attended a wedding this past weekend, and the happy couple asked one friend and one family member to do the candid shooting for the event. As the friend-with-cameras, I was happy to oblige.

The day before the wedding, I get an email from the bride-to-be stating that for some reason or another, the guy that she had tasked with taking the video of the event fell through, and if I could cover. I happened to pack my tripod, so I said sure, knowing that while the PM2 doesn't do a great job, a tripod mounted camera would probably do a better job than an iPhone.

Anyway, the results are usable, and the audio is surprisingly clear for on-body microphones set up outdoors (at least it wasn't windy).

So now here's my question:

What's the cheapest way for me to have a 'video' oriented body to work with in case this happens again? I happen to have at least 4 weddings to attend in the next 9 months, one of which is already hinting to me that they're low on budget and time.

I know that Oly won't be the way to go with video, but I've never looked at Panasonics from a video perspective. My girlfriend (who will be attending all of these weddings with me, no pressure there...) runs with a GF3, but given the age of that body I doubt it would do any better than my E-PM2s, right?

I'm hoping for a viewfinder, 1080p recording for cropping/scaling to 720p in post, and preferably the option to hook up an external microphone.

Would a GH2 cut it? GX7 prices are also falling through the floor - would they work? The GX7 is fairly modern so would work as a stills body, too. I'd prefer not to spring for a GH3, as those are still pretty pricey (both new and used).

Thanks!

Cheapest, probably a second hand GF2 with the hack.

http://www.eoshd.com/2012/02/hacked-gf2-the-300-digital-cinema-camera/

I`ve seen these going for as little as 50 or 60 quid.

But no way to add a viewfinder to a GF2, right? Only the GF1. The viewfinder was useful when I was doing panning shots in the afternoon sun, while the other body was on the tripod pointed at the altar.

Also, just thought of this - peaking would be a plus, as I was doing manual focus pulls, but I feel like that would definitely be asking a lot.

Oh, I guess it's the GF3 onwards that ditched the hotshoe, good to know.

Do you know if the hack can be applied to the GF3? I could borrow my girlfriend's to play with in the meantime.

Also, are you able to add an external microphone (through a hack or otherwise)? I figure I shouldn't expect much for ~$100 for a GF2, but if ~$100 for a GF2 means no microphone and ~$250-350 for a GH2 means I have a camera I can grow into, that's worth considering.

Note, I have not used Panasonic cameras, so I can't say anything about their video support. Like many people, I do not like the Olympus video support. I do video 2-3 times a year where I record all of the acts in small renaissance faires that my friends are the directors for. Now, one of the things that is important to me is the on camera compression, as I often take 8-10 hours of video in a weekend (capturing at least one full 1/2 hour set of each performer, plus doing the finale).

I have had good luck getting refurbished JVC camcorders to use for video. I primarily use a JVC GZ EX210 camcorder, and I recently got a JVC R10 camcorder to use in wet conditions. My one complaint is I wish these cameras were more wide angle, and in a pinch I will use an Olympus Pen/O-MD with a 12/14mm lens to capture the whole group. I'm leaning towards getting a GoPro Hero4 Silver camera to handle wide angle, and perhaps remote control.

In terms of the EX210 vs. the R10, the EX210 is the better camera (when it isn't raining). Because it isn't weather sealed, the microphone isn't as tinny as the R10. Also, the EX210 takes replaceable batteries, and I just can bring 2-3 batteries for an entire day. The R10 has a battery built-in, and I need to bring a USB battery pack to recharge it during the day. I haven't used it yet, but the EX210 does have wifi remote control, and I want to play with using that (attaching the camera up high to get a clear view of the stage, and using wifi to trigger it).

For something like a wedding, I'd be worried about low light, and I'm not sure a small sensor like in the JVC would cut it for that. Ideally, I'd like to be able to use the glass I already have.

Saturday's ceremony was outdoors, and I had one body set up with the Panasonic 12-32 @ 12mm (on the tripod, right by row one to pick up sound), and I was holding the other body with the Oly 17mm and panning over the audience. I wish I had more (and stronger) ND filters to slow down my shutter, but I had to make do.

The reception/toasts were close to sunset and under a tent, and I ended up only using my Oly17 to get the wider aperture. The sun was definitely setting by the time the Best Man was speaking, and I'm sure the camera was ramping up ISO, even at f/1.8.

Ideally, what I'd want to be able to do in a situation like this is be able to run video from a 28mm or 50mm manual lens, being able to set the camera further back and defocus the background if needed. If the camera's further back, I would definitely need dedicated audio equipment as the camera body would be too far away to pick up anything useful (the major reason it was set up at the front this time).

I haven't researched sound recorder or microphones yet, as this started out as more of a photo/video centric GAS attack, but as I'm researching and learning, I think I would want to pick up a few things if I want to do this again:

- External mic or sound recorder. Not sure how much these run. Would I be able to run a wireless mic into a GH2, or is the mic input only for wired? If I can only do wired, then I guess I'd have to look at a separate recorder.

- Some sort of stabilized rig. Might be overkill, but my panning footage is a bit wobbly, even after running it through iMovie's crop/stabilize function.

- Speaking of iMovie, aside from the maddening interface in the more recent versions, it seems to be able to do what I want it to do (for now), but there have been instances in the past where I've wished I had multiple audio and video tracks to work with.

If you want a mic input, get a gh2 or 3. I had my GH3 for €400. No mic on the GX7. G6 G7 are nice too, with mic inputs

I'm debating that bit. I can apparently get a basic Tascam audio recorder for <$100, which should alleviate that problem and allow me to place the camera further away/in a less obtrusive location, all without worrying about wires, it just adds extra effort on the post-processing side of things.

Not needing a microphone jack opens up the options, and a GF2 would be a very cheap way to dabble in this - <$100 on ebay, if I can figure out how to install the hack. Alternatively, other vendors have used GX7 bodies for $350 or so, which is also quite tempting, as it already includes the viewfinder, and has a more modern sensor if I were to use the camera for stills, as well.

Three more points that I'm not able to get clarity on:

- How different is the video crop factor on all of these bodies? My E-PM2 crops in fairly significantly, leading me to have to use wide angle lenses to get a fairly normal perspective - ie, using my 17mm gets me a field of view that's not too dissimilar to a 25mm for stills. A lower crop factor would allow me to use different glass - for example, a film-era 28mm f/2.8, which would allow me to do fully manual focus pulls and aperture adjustments.

- What's battery life during filming? Could I expect any of these bodies to last an hour with a full charge?

- Do any of these have a recording limiter? I know every body stops at 29 mins for tax reasons in the EU, but how about in the US? I thought I read that my E-PM2 can only record for 29 minutes at a stretch, and that was something I was concerned about as well.

aliasfox wrote:

- Do any of these have a recording limiter? I know every body stops at 29 mins for tax reasons in the EU, but how about in the US? I thought I read that my E-PM2 can only record for 29 minutes at a stretch, and that was something I was concerned about as well.

In general Olympus only makes one version world wide, so all bodies are limited to 29 minutes and 59 seconds. Note, until the E-M5 mark II and E-M10 mark II, the Olympus bodies had very little in the way of video options (no 24fps for instance). I forget when Olympus started supporting AVCHD, but before that, they were limited to 2MP file sizes on the card, which in turn meant 7 minutes of record time for HD and 14 minutes of record time for SD.

For the P&S cameras, Panasonic has made 2 models, one limited for sale in Europe (and defaulting to PAL output), and the other unlimited (and defaulting to NTSC output). I don't know what they do for mirrorless bodies.

GH2 with hack or GH3.  Those would be the best used bodies for video.

LMNCT wrote:

GH2 with hack or GH3. Those would be the best used bodies for video.

GH3s still run in the $500+ range, which is more than I'd want to spend at the moment.

A GX7 and a GH2 are close in price, but I'd lean towards a GX7 personally - if I get bored of the video stuff, I still have the newer sensor to play with on the stills side.

aliasfox wrote:

LMNCT wrote:

GH2 with hack or GH3. Those would be the best used bodies for video.

GH3s still run in the $500+ range, which is more than I'd want to spend at the moment.

A GX7 and a GH2 are close in price, but I'd lean towards a GX7 personally - if I get bored of the video stuff, I still have the newer sensor to play with on the stills side.

AHA!

or even a GH1 of course.....

I have read that the GX7 produces nice video. As I remember there is no audio jack in the body.

I know I am going to get flamed for this idea. Bear in mind I have no friends so that might explain why I think this is feasible. You are doing video for 4 or 5 weddings? Ask your friends for a couple hundred bucks to pay for your equipment. Do they want nice video to record their weddings or some junky images that sound like poop? I have read that great video with junky sound is junk. You need a nice off camera microphone for better sound quality than the camera's mic can produce. Plus the in camera mic picks up camera noise like the lens moving in and out.

I know you are a friend. How can you ask for a few hundred bucks to help you purchase some gear? First of all, who will be the major beneficiary of the video? Crap gear = crap video (garbage in garbage out). Second, you are their friend. You are giving up your time and the ability to have fun at their party. Shouldn't you be rewarded just a little bit? Third, the bridal party is a giant expense. Isn't there a tiny bit in the budget to help you help them?

Are your friends going to hate you for asking them for a little help? If the answer is no, ask them for a little help to help them. A GH2/3 plus mic will produce results so nice they will forgive you, eventually. You may all laugh at how you shook them down for the gear they wanted you to have to video their wedding.

Glad I can't receive negative likes for this post.

Marty

Psychiatric Nurse & Street Photographer

Interesting thought, but I don't think I can ask them for money - if they could afford a photographer/videographer for the whole event, they would've sprung for one. I'm willing to do this as a favor, as part of the wedding gift, and frankly, because I enjoy playing with my toys, even if it means I butt right up against their limitations like this past event.

Also, while I have to keep it within reason, I view something like this as a learning exercise - tuition, if you will. I generally do much better learning concepts on my own and being able to practice them than I do sitting in a classroom, and this is how I picked up the basics of stills photography as well.

Lastly, if I start asking for money, I will officially become part of the staff - and I don't want to be in that position. If they get a free video (good or bad) of their ceremony, a few toasts, and their first dance, then that's a bonus. If they pay for footage and it turns out poorly, then it's on my head.

I've been paid for my hobbies before - I was (am?) a cyclist, and I've worked in bike shops. From that, I learned that I'd much rather be paid to do something I can stand doing, and do what I like for free. That way, I don't start hating what I like because I can't feed myself.

Ok, so after doing some research, these are the options that seem to pop up. I'm assuming I'll be getting either an external microphone or a dedicated audio recorder for any of these options, and budgeting $100 for that.

- GF2 with video hack + LVF1, ~$200. Pros: The cheapest option and it has a tilting viewfinder. Cons are that it's fairly old if I want to use it for stills, no peaking, can only use dedicated sound recorder

- G6, ~$300 (on ebay). Pros: sounds like video is comparable to GH2 with hack, has a mic jack, peaking. Cons are no EVF tilt.

- GH2 with hack, $350 (on KEH). Pros: Probably the best video camera on the list. Cons: No peaking, no EVF tilt.

- GX7, $350 (on KEH). Pros: Newest sensor good for stills, tilting EVF, peaking. Cons: No mic jack.

Based on these, I feel like I should consider the bottom 3 options (G6, GH2, GX7) as they all provide EVF and have room for a hotshoe-mounted audio recorder (if needed). Out of these three, the G6 and the GX7 require no hacking/fiddling - am I correct in saying that the GH2 can only do 1080i/60 natively, and I would have to deinterlace? If that's the case:

Between the G6 and the GX7, which one should I be on the lookout for, or are they fairly comparable for my intended uses?

- Does one have support for a better codec or higher bitrate than the other?

- If I want to learn how to shoot in a 'flat' profile and grade the footage, does one have better support than the other?

- Does one have a higher crop factor than the other?

- I know for stills the GX7 has a stronger sensor, but does that matter as much in video?

Thanks!

aliasfox wrote:

- I know for stills the GX7 has a stronger sensor, but does that matter as much in video?

Thanks!

If you shoot inside with higher then base iso, yes, but only a little.

But one disadvantage of the external audio route is that there is no way to do a quick and easy edit. You will always have to sync the imported audio. Or use the internal mic.

How about a GF2 without viewfinder....That would really be cheap.

secretworld wrote:

aliasfox wrote:

- I know for stills the GX7 has a stronger sensor, but does that matter as much in video?

Thanks!

If you shoot inside with higher then base iso, yes, but only a little.

But one disadvantage of the external audio route is that there is no way to do a quick and easy edit. You will always have to sync the imported audio. Or use the internal mic.

How about a GF2 without viewfinder....That would really be cheap.

Thanks. Indoor shooting is definitely possible and probable if I'm asked to record speeches/dances at receptions again. That said, I'm not sure I'd expect to regularly shoot above f/1.8 1/60s ISO1600 - one would hope that if the venue is dark that there would be a spotlight on the stage.

I've never planned on quick edits, I'd always hope to be able to bring stuff back home and load it into the computer.

As for a GF2 without viewfinder, that would be adequate for a tripod camera -i.e, one that I would set up to capture the whole scene, but would be deficient if I wanted to handhold and/or do manual focus pulls. I wear glasses, and I had enough trouble doing that with my EVF during the ceremony (bridesmaids walking down the aisle) with light leakage and all.

Is the video on these Panasonics noticeably better than the video on an Olympus E-M5 II? I'm hoping to get an E-M1 when the E-M1 mkII comes out, and while I know the E-M1 has video that's just as bad as my E-PM2, I'd expect the E-M1 mkII to have the E-M5 II's video features.