Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Started Aug 5, 2015 | Discussions
andrewD2
andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.
22

I got the A7RII, 55/1.8 and 28/2 over the last few days. Mixed feelings about the purchases but mostly because what I already have is so capable. The silent shutter might actually be the killer feature. The whole combo weight as a "city walkabout" is pretty considerable compared to my current 5R + 20/2.8 and 35/1.8 which is never too heavy to take "just in case".
Its also because good images shouldn't rely on resolution, my favorite image so far was using the 28/2 in crop mode.
Blown away:

I have been impressed at high ISO, this one at ISO8000, lit by a not so close street light 20minutes or so after sunset:

You can see grain, the wood grain. 100% crop from the above:

I do have a rough comparison with the A7s from the same street corner st night. Its like comparing a 6MP digital image with a 20MP film scan. One is clean with low detail, the other has grain and more detail.

At ISO25600 I found had a decent match for A7RII and A7s, the same subject only the A7RII was taken in true low light  (1/125th and f2) and the A7s in much much better light (f2.5 1/5000th)

I only had the A7s frame in crop mode so I cropped the A7RII image to 17.8MP before comparing with both images scaled to the same image resolution.

It is easy to tell which is which by the finer detail and finer grain.

I did a DR test vs my 6D (colour checker on black chair faced away from the window, exposed to not clip the sky outside the window) , no doubt the A7RII comes up cleaner.
But there is a bad edge artifact on the bright window to dark chair edge. Appears in ACR, Capture one and Sony's IDC.

6D, not an awful result at +5 stop push, much better than a 5DIII but still a lot of colour noise.

A7RII, much cleaner but with edge artifact. Its an expensive camera, Sony PLEASE give us the best RAW image you can. The 11+7bit format is very sensible for most images, well done for coming up with it. Its just not for high dynamic range images with strong changes in brightness. If you are going to praise the low noise floor and want to take advantage of it you don't want to be retouching compression artifacts. Can't see it coming up much but similarly the 6D DR is good in enough in most senarios also...

Moving on to the 55mm. Very sharp, lovely bokeh, no CA so speak of. Disappointed with max magnification, not sure what to do about that but I have a 49mm +2 dioptre for now.

The crop is impressive at f1.8, tiny amount of halation, its a nice look.
Tested the 28f2 at f8 vs 17-40L and 24-70LII on the 6D. Nice little lens, very sharp center decent edges though similar at the edges to the L lens on the 6D so its not resolving max resolution away from the center. 
Have an adapter coming so that will be interesting.
At f4 the center is really sharp, I don't see any sensor reflections yet either. This is at ISO4000, underexposed a couple of stops to hold highlight detail in the bright uplit areas on the building. +2.05EV and -44 highlights in post. Distortion of the 28f2 on the building on the left looked awful as it bends the corners in most. ACR profile for it looks good, not that much of a concern. Without correction its a bit wider than 28mm, corrected it matches the 28mm of the 24-70LII.

I'll leave you with this bit of fun, A7R and D8x0 users will be used to this, for me it reminds me of using a H3D39.
See the circled marks?

Anyway, hope you are having fun with whatever you have, there are no bad cameras these days.
Andrew

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 6D Nikon 24-70mm F2.8E ED VR Sony a7R Sony a7S Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H3
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GotoDengo Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.
1

Thank you for this!  Night shot looks pretty good.  Will be pleased if weird reflection/coma/gritty starbursts are a thing of the past.  Many said the first A7R completely addressed these issues, but in fact it did not.

Disappointed to see textbook Sony lossy RAW compression artifacts on the high contrast window/chair edge in your test shot.

It's far past time for Sony to offer lossless RAW as an option.

120 to 35 Senior Member • Posts: 1,282
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Well done! A well-informed post that addresses several interesting technical points that contribute to image quality.

I also share your mixed feelings about the weight. Ten years ago I was shooting Contax 645 medium format (large) and 135 rangefinder (small) film cameras at the same time, but ended up carrying a point-and-shoot digital as it was far more practical.

sensibill
sensibill Veteran Member • Posts: 5,402
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.
3

That 6D image looks unusable. I'd take the edge compression artifacts (assuming it's not been adjusted to accentuate the effect, the highlights look pretty 'hot' there) over that banding and noise any day.

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purpleray Senior Member • Posts: 1,261
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Andrew

Thanks for these.

My main interest is theatre photography.  I like to shoot wide shots to capture the whole scene to tell the story of the opera or musical - making shooting vulnerable in the low light and high DR of theatre.

Relative to my Em 1, the A7R2 is pretty much noiseless.  With the high MP, I will also be able to crop my theatre shots without fear of loss of resolution or increase in noise.  While I am able to handle this with the EM1 ( and before that Oly E520/620 and E5), I will now not have to do so much in PP.

Cheers

Ray

ttran88
ttran88 Senior Member • Posts: 2,844
Could post processing save the 6D photo?

With clever post processing the A7RII lossy raw artifacts could be removed, but with the 6D will it be possible to post process your way out?

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,875
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

How does the EVF on the A7R2 compare? Is it still really good for manual focusing. Someone else made a comment it was worse than A7r for manual focusing and it may have just been the settings he was using.

Greg.

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PVCdroid
PVCdroid Veteran Member • Posts: 4,398
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

That's not a sensor artifact. Purple fringing I'd call it.

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Esstee
Esstee Contributing Member • Posts: 654
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

andrewD2 wrote:

A7RII, much cleaner but with edge artifact. Its an expensive camera, Sony PLEASE give us the best RAW image you can. The 11+7bit format is very sensible for most images, well done for coming up with it. Its just not for high dynamic range images with strong changes in brightness. If you are going to praise the low noise floor and want to take advantage of it you don't want to be retouching compression artifacts. Can't see it coming up much but similarly the 6D DR is good in enough in most senarios also...

The edge artifact on this image looks very odd. 
Any chance you could upload the RAW image for this to have a closer look. 
That said, at first glance, I'd say this appears to be more along the lines of a post processing artifact than a sensor issue. Though I'd love to take a closer look to confirm. IMO. this isn't how data compression would come across in cases where artifacts are found but who knows...

Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Esstee wrote:

andrewD2 wrote:

A7RII, much cleaner but with edge artifact. Its an expensive camera, Sony PLEASE give us the best RAW image you can. The 11+7bit format is very sensible for most images, well done for coming up with it. Its just not for high dynamic range images with strong changes in brightness. If you are going to praise the low noise floor and want to take advantage of it you don't want to be retouching compression artifacts. Can't see it coming up much but similarly the 6D DR is good in enough in most senarios also...

The edge artifact on this image looks very odd.
Any chance you could upload the RAW image for this to have a closer look.
That said, at first glance, I'd say this appears to be more along the lines of a post processing artifact than a sensor issue. Though I'd love to take a closer look to confirm. IMO. this isn't how data compression would come across in cases where artifacts are found but who knows...

It looks like the Sony compression artifact but agree we'd need the raw to be sure. Here's what the compression artifact looks like (from this post):

andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

sensibill wrote:

That 6D image looks unusable. I'd take the edge compression artifacts (assuming it's not been adjusted to accentuate the effect, the highlights look pretty 'hot' there) over that banding and noise any day.

I tried settings to minimise it, no clarity etc. And it is a hard case for both, a black surface. Agreed that the 6D isn't usable but I think I found the edge artifact showed on a less pushed image (I take a braketed set so that I can pick the highest non clipped exposure) I'll check later, don't quote me on it till I do. It is a pretty extreme contrast, but these contrasts do exist in real life. I've had the same thing with my 5R real world, had to do some cloning around window frames.

Andrew

andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Could post processing save the 6D photo?

Its not hard to remove the edge artifact in this case, I just don't see the need for it to exist at all. Especially when the solution is NOT to do something. I'll find an example of a non test image where it would be a real pain.

The 6D has good DR, just not great DR, and professinally I wanted a better 'scene setter'. An alternative purchase was a D750 and a large chunk left for lenses which would have had the excellent DR without the lossy compression issue.

Andrew

andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Horshack wrote:

Esstee wrote:

andrewD2 wrote:

A7RII, much cleaner but with edge artifact. Its an expensive camera, Sony PLEASE give us the best RAW image you can. The 11+7bit format is very sensible for most images, well done for coming up with it. Its just not for high dynamic range images with strong changes in brightness. If you are going to praise the low noise floor and want to take advantage of it you don't want to be retouching compression artifacts. Can't see it coming up much but similarly the 6D DR is good in enough in most senarios also...

The edge artifact on this image looks very odd.
Any chance you could upload the RAW image for this to have a closer look.
That said, at first glance, I'd say this appears to be more along the lines of a post processing artifact than a sensor issue. Though I'd love to take a closer look to confirm. IMO. this isn't how data compression would come across in cases where artifacts are found but who knows...

It looks like the Sony compression artifact but agree we'd need the raw to be sure. Here's what the compression artifact looks like (from this post):

Message me and I'll send the RAW over, no PP done other than +5 stop push and the 6D doesn't show it.

Andrew

Viramati Senior Member • Posts: 1,373
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Your eye close-up shows the EXIF for both as being from the S. Would be really interested if you could clarify more the high iso capabilities between the two

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andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
here you go...

6D+3EV, clean edge, low frequency colour noise
7RII+5EV, pixelated edge artifact
7RII+3EV, pixelated edge artifact is significantly reduced but still there.

My guess is contrast along edge + colour noise leads to artifacts from the lossy compression.
You'll probably need full view.

Cheers,
Andrew

andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Viramati wrote:

Your eye close-up shows the EXIF for both as being from the S. Would be really interested if you could clarify more the high iso capabilities between the two

I overlayed the two to get the eye position the same in both, pasting the A7RII image in to the A7s image. Then I exported the layers. So the exif from the A7s got transfered to both. They are correctly labelled in the text.

Andrew

andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

How does the EVF on the A7R2 compare? Is it still really good for manual focusing. Someone else made a comment it was worse than A7r for manual focusing and it may have just been the settings he was using.

Greg.

Can't compare with the A7R but I can manually focus it OK in good or bad light. I did get a couple of slight misses I though should have been perfect.
Dioptre position maybe needs setting, there is no obviously marked zero on the wheel as far as I can see. I have it close but I'm going to try and get mine perfect for me later.
Only problem I find is that focus is so critical at high res that I'd rather open up the aperture to focus and then stop down. I don't see a way of doing this unless settings effect is turned off so I have to go through a bit of a finger dance which moves the camera after you have carefully focused!
Andrew

Viramati Senior Member • Posts: 1,373
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

andrewD2 wrote:

Viramati wrote:

Your eye close-up shows the EXIF for both as being from the S. Would be really interested if you could clarify more the high iso capabilities between the two

I overlayed the two to get the eye position the same in both, pasting the A7RII image in to the A7s image. Then I exported the layers. So the exif from the A7s got transfered to both. They are correctly labelled in the text.

Andrew

Hi James sorry to seem ignorant but I can't see any text (at least in safari) that tells me which is which as when I hover over the image it says that both are from the S. I presume the first is the A7s file?

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Viramati Senior Member • Posts: 1,373
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

Andrew also would be interested in how you find focusing and the EVF in low light compared to the S. I find that the S is so much better than the A7II in this respect.

1. The A7S will focus accurately in near darkness whereas the A7II hunts and takes an age to lock on

2. the A7S EVF is so smooth(far less pixelated) in dark situations compared to the A7II with no juddering of the image when you move the camera around.

On the whole the low light shooting experience of using the A7s is so much better so I am wondering if the A7rII comes any closer?

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andrewD2
OP andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,445
Re: Some A7RII images and a bit of testing / comparisons.

andrewD2 wrote:

 It is a pretty extreme contrast, but these contrasts do exist in real life.

I'm thinking of something like this with bright windows in a dark room with dark walls and fixtures that don't fill light the interior well. I'd really rather not have to clean up artifacts on all these high contrast edges.

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