Which Platform has better FUTURE? Samsung NX or EOS-M

If development of both systems stopped today, NX is much closer to having everything I would need for a complete system.  For me, the M system is a useful add-on to an EOS DSLR system.  On its own, the M system isn't even close, and Canon has provided no indication that will change any time in the near future.

I'd say the M, just because canon dont' consider cameras a hobby.  if samsung doesn't make money at cameras, there's no reason for them to continue making cameras.

where with canon, they'll continue it because in the long run, it doesn't cost them much to do so.

007peter wrote:

Which Platform do you think has a better FUTURE?

Samsung NX or

Canon EOS-M

Without a 'real' commitment by Canon, the M is fairly dead-end, I will NOT invest anymore in it, but will continue to enjoy my M.

It could be a nice video cam if allowed, 4k an absolute necessity or at least high bit/High resolution 2kHD Raw, it could be a Sony A6k/etc competitor if desired, AF needed, but Canon only desires it to be a 'Me Too' ILC, NOT a leader in ANY manner, just barely 'good enuf' to keep Canon Lens owners possibly interested, NOTHING more !!

Not enuf native lens, not the performance to impress, Go with Samsung, they are a very impressive company, NX1/NX500  !!

Protect those DSLR's at ANY costs !!!

Half-A$$ is still a LOT of A$$ and we know what comes out of them thingies !! 

At least in the USA, Samsung has a brand problem. People associate it with things like washing machines and microwave ovens.

In the USA, Canon also beats Samsung in camera marketing and distribution. Canon brand cameras are available everywhere, and Canon does a decent amount of advertising.

(On the mirrorless side, my local camera store offers Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Nikon, Leica, but not Samsung.)

It takes more than technical merit to sell cameras.

johnsmith404 wrote:

007peter wrote:

Which Platform do you think has a better FUTURE?

Samsung NX or

Canon EOS-M

Well, Samsung NX obviously. The bodies are technologically much more advanced and the lens selection is much more complete. The only reason I didn't got for Samsung is that I don't like their design and that the lenses I want, esp. the 11-22 is slightly better in Canon land (but Samsungs UWA seems to be quite decent and affordably priced too).

NX has already scheduled its own 300 2.8. I bet EF-M won't have anything comparable even in 2020. The only advantage of EF-M is the EF-EF-M adapter. But if you're planning on using EF lenses a Canon DSLR will be the better choice for years to come so why bother.

I agree; if it weren't for the EF to EF-M adapter, and the promise that someday Canon will get serious about mirrorless, this would be a blowout victory for NX over EF-M.

Even with the EF to EF-M adapter, Samsung has the edge right now. Canon has no advanced bodies with things like built-in EVF, many fast AF points spread across the sensor, IBIS, etc. Canon also has a lack of speed: slow AF-C, low framerates on all EOS-M models, low bitrate video, etc. This makes me think that Canon's lack of investment in smaller-process fabrication facilities is starting to damage its ability to compete.

Samsung has $billions invested in fabs and thus has a long-term sensor, chip, and circuit advantage that Canon can't match since Canon has so much less volume. Companies like Samsung can basically use their cutting-edge fabs on smartphone chips, DRAM, and solid-state memory. When the fabs become obsolete for those purposes, they can repurpose them for sensor and camera chips.

In contrast, Canon does not have that ability to spread costs of fabs across as many industries and with as much volume, so Canon rarely upgrades its fabs. Most Canon sensors are still at 500nm. In contrast, Intel is at 14nm and many companies have been at 20nm for a while now. The big 500nm process can't be good for perf/watt... and might explain why the EOS-M has such poor battery life.

Canon can get around this problem by basically giving up and outsourcing the production its electronics components to other companies, which is basically what Nikon has done, but I think Canon's corporate pride makes that a nonstarter. And that's too bad because Canon is not keeping up with the sensor tech of its rivals.

A naive person might think Canon is an 800 pound gorilla in sensors because of its large market share in ILCs, but ILCs are a small part of a much larger market that includes everything from smartphone/tablet camera sensors to military sensors to action/security/video cams to automobile sensors. http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1326279 (chart is market share by revenue--if it were market share by volume, Canon's share would hardly be visible, since it'd be swamped by all those smartphone sensors and such)

The argument that ILCs are a core business for Canon and that Samsung might "give up" made sense even 1 year ago, when Samsung hilariously didn't even have HSS or any serious ILCs. But with the NX1 I think it's clear that Samsung is not giving up anytime soon.

We may see some interesting mergers in the future, though. Can you imagine what would happen if Sony and Oly merged? They'd probably ditch M43 and focus on Sony E/FE, with Oly designing the glass and Sony leveraging its electronics expertise (similar to Samsung, above). Or imagine what happens if Apple buys Nikon or Canon.

T3 wrote:

007peter wrote:

Which Platform do you think has a better FUTURE?

Samsung NX or

Canon EOS-M

Consider this: even if Samsung were to totally cease making any additional lenses for the NX system, how long would it take for Canon to catch up with the EOS M system, given Canon's extremely slow pace of development with EOS M? And it's not only just the lens selection. When it Canon going to offer Samsung's level of bodies? And how long are you willing to wait for Canon to reach that point?

10/3.5

20/2.8

30/2

45/1.8

45/1.8 2D/3D

60/2.8 macro

85/1.4

12-24/4-5.6

16-50/3.5-5.6 pancake

18-55/3.5-5.6

18-200/3.5-6.3

20-50/3.5-5.6

50-200/4-5.6

16-50/2-2.8

50-150/2.8

Coming in 2015:

16-80/4

24/1.4

11-24/2.8

Samsung is all in with the NX mirrorless system, because that's the one system they have to push. It's not a side-show hobby for Samsung like the EOS M system is for Canon. This is clearly shown by how much they've developed for the NX system. Making a camera like the NX1 clearly shows how serious Samsung is with their system, not to mention their extensive lens selection. The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Compare that with what Canon has put out for their EOS M system. And, of course, they have quite a number of bodies for the NX system. Their current US website features: NX3300, NX500, NX1, NX30, NX300M, NX300, NX3000, NX2000. BTW, Canon's current US website doesn't even feature any EOS M! Again, the proof is in the pudding. Canon simply does not have much interest in EOS M, unfortunately.

Yes, we can talk about the FUTURE. But we live in the present. Samsung NX has an extensive system as it is, in the present, right now. Even if Samsung were to cease all NX development tomorrow, they'd still have quite a selection of gear to choose from. But clearly, Samsung has no intention of killing off NX. They are a massive company with massive resources, and they can certainly support NX well into the future. They aren't afraid to invest the money. Besides, Samsung is definitely a company that likes to have their finger in a lot of industries. They seem to have a very broad and deep vision for their company. They aren't a one-trick pony, or a one-industry company. So I think the future is strong for NX.

Until the NX1 launched I wasn't sure about Samsung but after that and the fixing of HSS I think Samsung came to play ball. They must have sunk quite a lot of money into developing their latest round of cameras (see the NX1's technology from EVF lag, BSI sensor, processing chips, on down) and glass--and you don't do that unless you're either stupid or serious. I think they're serious. I think NX is one of the mounts that will still be actively developed 15 years from now. I think NX-Mini will die though. Too much competition upwelling from smartphones and high-end compacts like the RX10 and RX100 series, FZ1000 and G3 X.

I'm not sure I disagree with a single word you wrote. That may be a first!

As of today which is all we have to go on, Samsung is the smarter choice for the future. And today. Unless you have a loyalty to Canon and wish to use EF glass. But realistically, that's not the very best solution. It's a money saving and space saving option.
--
Taken from an MMA article and I think it applies on DPR:
"My point is, we all do this. And we feel entitled to do it, because we think we’re smart people with smart opinions. If we also happen to be paying customers of the thing we’re opining about, then forget it. How obnoxious we feel entitled to be is directly proportionate to how much money we’ve spent." - Ben Fowlkes

007peter wrote:

Which Platform do you think has a better FUTURE?

Samsung NX or

Canon EOS-M

Neither! If it is true that Sony a7r mkii focuses canon glass as well as canon dslrs then that techno will flow down to a6000 series derivative and eos m will be dead. There won't be much point in nx in that case either.

johnsmith404 wrote:

007peter wrote:

Which Platform do you think has a better FUTURE?

Samsung NX or

Canon EOS-M

Well, Samsung NX obviously. The bodies are technologically much more advanced and the lens selection is much more complete. The only reason I didn't got for Samsung is that I don't like their design and that the lenses I want, esp. the 11-22 is slightly better in Canon land (but Samsungs UWA seems to be quite decent and affordably priced too).

NX has already scheduled its own 300 2.8. I bet EF-M won't have anything comparable even in 2020.

do you honestly think there's much difference in size between an EF-M 300 2.8 and an EF 300 2.8?

exactly. That is the game-changer, and a Chinese company has now produced an AF adapter that will have the same effect on Nikon. Sony has just relegated Canon and Nikon to the status of 3rd party lens makers. The fatal flaw for NX is that it can still only AF NX lenses. Sure, there are more NX lenses then EF-M lenses but the range of lenses than can be autofocused on any of the other systems just blows NX away. Unless that changes it doesn't matter how brilliant Samsung bodies are, the system will just fade away.

At least in the USA, Samsung has a brand problem. People associate it with things like washing machines and microwave ovens.

In the USA, Canon also beats Samsung in camera marketing and distribution. Canon brand cameras are available everywhere, and Canon does a decent amount of advertising.

(On the mirrorless side, my local camera store offers Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Nikon, Leica, but not Samsung.)

It takes more than technical merit to sell cameras.

This^^^^^^^^^^ For some reason, photographers seem to be some of the most image/fashion/brand concious people around. Don't know how the likes of Samsung will get around that. Look how long it's taking Sony, & they had a premium brand image/cache to begin with.

justmeMN wrote:

At least in the USA, Samsung has a brand problem. People associate it with things like washing machines and microwave ovens.

In the USA, Canon also beats Samsung in camera marketing and distribution. Canon brand cameras are available everywhere, and Canon does a decent amount of advertising.

(On the mirrorless side, my local camera store offers Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Nikon, Leica, but not Samsung.)

It takes more than technical merit to sell cameras.

There is a lot of pro-Canon fantasy on DPR that doesn't mesh with reality.

Samsung has extremely strong brand recognition in the USA and in the world. See: http://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/ (No. 7 overall, and No. 5 in Technology.) It's completely wrong to think that Samsung got that brand recognition for appliances; Samsung got that recognition mostly based on tech (that's why it goes UP in rank if you look at only technology products). They are the no. 2 brand in smartphones behind Apple, for instance, and smartphones are a VASTLY VASTLY larger market than standalone cameras by units shipped. Samsung has strong brand presence in tablets, TVs, SSDs, NAND (flash memory), DRAM, and Blu Ray players among other things. NX may have its flaws but brand image is not one of them.

As for Canon? Standalone cameras are becoming ever less relevant and there is ever more competition in printers. Canon ranks no. 73 overall and no. 14 for technology.  (If it makes you feel better, Sony has no strong mobile devices division, either, so it too suffers, ranking no. 15 in technology. I'm sure the multiple hacks on Sony Playstation Network and the movie division did not help its credibility there.)

DPR is not representative of most people. Normal people want stuff that "just works." The cradle-to-grave tech support at ubiquitous Apple stores (even if you do eventually have to pay for it), and the consistent quality and software interface among Apple products, are some of the big reasons why Apple is successful--their products "just work" and it took years for Windows to (mostly) catch up. (Linux is even farther behind and their pathetic market share demonstrates even more clearly how people avoid stuff that does not "just work" out of the box.)

Samsung's early problems with lenses falling apart and horribly slow HSS implementation notwithstanding, their stuff does in fact "just work." And unlike Sony, Samsung has touchscreens everywhere to ease the transition from smartphones to standalone cameras. That's not to say that Canon products don't "just work" as well, but until the addition of touchscreens, the DSLRs were less intuitive, and even today you will find that MANY Rebel owners shoot in Auto using the LCD. The small, dim OVF on Rebels (with mysterious numbers at the bottom) is not attractive the same way that even a midrange EVF is (chock full of information and near-instant exposure information, the way people who grew up on smartphones are used to).

As for distribution, Samsung's potential reach vastly outclasses Canon's in the foreseeable future (and FUTURE is what OP was about, not PRESENT):

1. Standalone camera stores keep dying off and there's no letup in sight. How many cameras do they sell compared to Target, Walmart, Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc.? Samsung can afford to be absent from camera specialty stores if they are available at the major retailers.

2. Standalone cameras and printers and photo paper are about all that retail stores carry in terms of Canon equipment. Samsung can leverage a much broader distribution network, due to its popular Galaxy series and TVs as well as its products in other categories like printers, microwaves, and other white goods. Similarly Sony's huge console share and strong presence in music, movies, stereos, TVs, clocks, and other electronics means that Sony has more potential distribution reach than Canon as well.

3. Online sales are projected to keep growing, so that further weakens whatever clout Canon has at in-store retail.