E-PL6 (or E-PL5) as a pocket camera?

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur. On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller. Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Timo

First of all the E-PL6 is almost identical to the E-PL5, where the E-PL5 is cheaper you almost lose no functionality what so ever. The E-PL6 adds ISO LOW support, which the E-PL5 doesn't get and the ability to use an interval timer for time laps functionality anywhere between one second and 24 hours. The kicker here is that it will only capture 99 frames, which at 24fps represents 4 seconds of time laps footage. It also adopts the dual-axis electronic level to stop crooked horizons. In terms of operating its still based off the OM-D E-M5 where as the E-PL7 is based off the OM-D E-M10.

I've owned an E-PL5 and its a great camera, but even with a body cap lens on it, it will barely fit in a pants pocket. It might fit in your jacket pocket, the RX100 will fit in your pocket but you'll compromise the 1inch sensor. The RX100 has a pretty good 1inch sensor but if you're going above ISO800 you'll really begin to notice the difference.

I tend to think images from 1inch sensor cameras look flat and lifeless but that just might be my perspective. I've owned pocket cameras such as the Panasonic DMC-LX7 and I would never go back to one again. You will find if you look at images on flickr or some such the best way I can describe it is in the lack of fine detail and in the contour that would otherwise make an image pop, the 1inch sensor really doesn't have it. There is a certain lack of depth and a characteristic of flatness in the image.

I find Micro Four Thirds to be a fair compromise between portability and a larger APS-C camera, 1inch sensors not so much. The only reason I'd go bigger or smaller again is if I was looking at something like the Panasonic GM1 or GM5, or alternatively if I was going bigger it'd be full frame.

I'm done with small cameras and big cameras with small sensors.

My suggest is buy Panasonic GM1 and 12-32 pancake from Panasonic or Olympus 14-42. I own Olympus EZ, retractable, really small. With GM 1 wont have OIS but will literraly fit the pocket.

You know enough about ILC's to decide whether you want a small one lens solution like the Sony, or want to add a second M43 body that you will probably use to back up the EM1 in your gear list. Are you making good use of the Wifi on the EM1? Maybe an EPL7 is better when the prices come down.

Petar Veliki wrote:

My suggest is buy Panasonic GM1 and 12-32 pancake from Panasonic or Olympus 14-42. I own Olympus EZ, retractable, really small. With GM 1 wont have OIS but will literraly fit the pocket.

Good point, the GM1 is definitely something to consider. It seems like a very potential camera for this purpose. Thanks!

Regards,

Timo

baxters wrote:

You know enough about ILC's to decide whether you want a small one lens solution like the Sony, or want to add a second M43 body that you will probably use to back up the EM1 in your gear list. Are you making good use of the Wifi on the EM1? Maybe an EPL7 is better when the prices come down.

I may know about cameras, but knowing what I want is a different matter altogether. I think I would be fine with a fixed lens camera but if I can get better image quality from an ILC of similar size I'll probably go for that. I think I'll need to consider the EPL7 vs. Panny GM1. I have not found much use for the wifi in EM1 besides wireless remote and for that it feels awkward. Thanks for the tip!

Regards,

Timo

TimoK wrote:

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur.

That seems like a pretty good deal, actually. But that is hardly a pocketable kit.

On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller.

Well, if pocketability is your priority and you can't rise the budget, the answer is simple. Go with RX100.

Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

From what I hear, 14-42 EZ is kind of a hit and miss, not as good as Panasonic's tiny 12-32. But you'd best do to search for photos shot with both cameras to see for yourself.

There are other options as well.

First, there's Olympus E-PM2, but I don't think it's sold with the pancake zoom, so that's probably a deal-breaker.

And of course, there is Panasonic GM1. It's around 100 EUR more. But it's pretty much as pocketable as RX100, but will provide better image quality. And you get the 24mm equivalent on the wide end. Not sure how important that is for you. I know I'm constantly annoyed that I can't go wider than 14mm. I guess that's because of LX5 I had for quite a long time before getting into MFT.

Not that GM1 does not have downsides. Mechanical shutter is only 1/500s, flash sync is pathetic, there's no BULB mode. The zoom stops at 32mm on the long end. But I guess for a general shooting scenarios on the move, those quirks are probably not that important. And if you'll ever want more reach, Panasonic has a tiny 35-100 zoom that's the size of a prime lens.

Anyway, here's a size comparison .

TimoK wrote:

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur. On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller. Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Timo

I have an EPL-5 that I got this winter and use with either the 17mm f/1.8, 12mm f/2.0, or 45mm f/1.8, which is a recent acquisition. I tried zooms for a while, but I'm just not a zoom guy so, I stopped using zooms and the 14-42mm is sitting in the box. I can put the EPL-5 with any of the three primes or even the 14-42mm in my jacket pocket. I also have a VF4 because I need my reading glasses to use the LCD. The VF4 makes the kit too large for a jacket pocket, so I carry the VF4 and a spare battery in another jacket or pants pocket. When the summer comes, I will have to adopt another plan but, for now, it's still jacket weather where I live.

I'm sure the RX100 is more pocketable but, first you get a smaller 1" sensor which may be an issue, depending on what you plan to do with your images and second, if you find down the road that the lens doesn't meet your needs, you have to replace the entire camera.  Besides the three primes I'm using, Olympus and Panasonic make five more small primes and four pancake zooms that would allow you to put the EPL-5 in a jacket pocket.

TimoK wrote:

baxters wrote:

You know enough about ILC's to decide whether you want a small one lens solution like the Sony, or want to add a second M43 body that you will probably use to back up the EM1 in your gear list. Are you making good use of the Wifi on the EM1? Maybe an EPL7 is better when the prices come down.

I may know about cameras, but knowing what I want is a different matter altogether. I think I would be fine with a fixed lens camera but if I can get better image quality from an ILC of similar size I'll probably go for that. I think I'll need to consider the EPL7 vs. Panny GM1. I have not found much use for the wifi in EM1 besides wireless remote and for that it feels awkward. Thanks for the tip!

Regards,

Timo

I think that the case has been made for the GM1. The E-EPL5/6 is only cheap because the GM1 has come down in price. They have IBIS but the kit lens on the GM1 has OIS and many good reports. It also has a chance to be pocketable being 50% of the volume of the E-PL candidates. Pretty well all the Panasonic lenses that truly benefit from stabilisation are in fact stabilised. The GM1 has some compromises because of its tiny size but if you truly need that small then some compromises need to be lived with. I personally have no problem living with the compromises requested of me - others, quite reasonably, cannot do so or simply peer through IBIS goggles.

Since I live in the tropics and it's never jacket weather over here, for me the GM is no more pocketable than an E-PL would be... Both need a waist pack if I'm bringing a couple lenses or at least a strap, I could get away with slipping the GM into cargo shorts during the day but that's about it.

I've actually wanted an RX100 for a while too, that brighter lens on the mk3 really made it even more appealing, but the price was always too high for something that would be my secondary camera...

That's what made me take a second look at the GM1 the low prices), and I'm really enjoying having it even tho for me it's not really pocketable. It's small enough that I'll actually bring it along with my GF6 with a second lens mounted tho, which helps tremendously (less swapping).

It's also that much more conspicuous in social situations, these days someone's more likely to think "who's the weirdo with the P&S" than be self conscious about what I'm shooting. It's light and small enough that I don't even mind it on a wrist strap tho.

I can't see myself splurging on an RX100 anymore unless it dropped under $500...

With the GM1 I'm finding my M4/3 gear as a whole more usable than ever, on the rare occasion that I don't wanna be seen with a camera on me at all (like if I'm a groomsman in a wedding ceremony or with strangers) I'll just reach for my old P&S (LF1) or simply the phone.

If pocketability is your primary concern, and you want a m4/3 camera, then the GM1 with the excellent 12-32 lens can be picked up for a bargain. It is currently selling for 480 EUR here including our 25 percent sales tax, so look for offers. I bought it for less myself, a while back. I can fit mine in my front jeans pocket, even with a spare 20/1.7 in a pouch. The GM1 really has brought the Micro in Micro Four Thirds to a whole new level.

TimoK wrote:

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur. On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller. Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Timo

Pockatability all depends on the size of your pockets I guess. I have E-PL6 and E-P5. I have been using the E-PL6 with Panny 14mm 2.5 pancake prime as my pocket camera for the past two years or so. The 14mm pancake prime is about the same size as the 14-42 EZ and the whole combo fits in the palm of my hand and slips easily into coat or jacket pocket or the pockets of roomy shorts. I love the tilting screen, take a lot of pictures at waist level, and would never want to go without a tiltscreen any more. To me the E-PL series are the ideal camera size. Would not want any smaller, can hardly cope with anything bigger. Can also fit an EVF or microphone on top if need be. I am actually planning to get a dekitted 14-42 pancake zoom at 230 euro's instead of the prime for more reach. The price you mention for the kit sounds like a great deal. I would say, go for it.

Regards,

frangulis wrote:

TimoK wrote:

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur. On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller. Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Timo

Pockatability all depends on the size of your pockets I guess. I have E-PL6 and E-P5. I have been using the E-PL6 with Panny 14mm 2.5 pancake prime as my pocket camera for the past two years or so. The 14mm pancake prime is about the same size as the 14-42 EZ and the whole combo fits in the palm of my hand and slips easily into coat or jacket pocket or the pockets of roomy shorts. I love the tilting screen, take a lot of pictures at waist level, and would never want to go without a tiltscreen any more. To me the E-PL series are the ideal camera size. Would not want any smaller, can hardly cope with anything bigger. Can also fit an EVF or microphone on top if need be. I am actually planning to get a dekitted 14-42 pancake zoom at 230 euro's instead of the prime for more reach. The price you mention for the kit sounds like a great deal. I would say, go for it.

I had the same notion, Timo, and like Steven, went for the camera (the E-PL3 in my case) fitted with the f2.5 12mm. I had an Oly 45 or the 40-150 in another pocket.

BUT I found that E-PL3 just a touch heavy and bulky. I was replacing an LX3 as pocket camera and a G1 as "big" camera and found the E-PL3 with the VF2 was better t replacing the G1 than the bare E-PL3 was at replacing the LX3.

I was hoping Panny would bring out an LX8/9 with a 1" sensor and a decent zoom range. Nope; sadly they brought out their compromise love child which by its nature must be bigger and heavier have a restricted zoom range.

By the way, I had the E-PM1 for a while before the E-PL3. Like you, I found the fixed screen a nuisance but I have to say it was closer to being a pocket camera than the E-PL3. For me, there is some sort of line somewhere and the E-PL3 just falls over it.

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Impulses wrote:

Since I live in the tropics and it's never jacket weather over here, for me the GM is no more pocketable than an E-PL would be... Both need a waist pack if I'm bringing a couple lenses or at least a strap, I could get away with slipping the GM into cargo shorts during the day but that's about it.

I've actually wanted an RX100 for a while too, that brighter lens on the mk3 really made it even more appealing, but the price was always too high for something that would be my secondary camera...

That's what made me take a second look at the GM1 the low prices), and I'm really enjoying having it even tho for me it's not really pocketable. It's small enough that I'll actually bring it along with my GF6 with a second lens mounted tho, which helps tremendously (less swapping).

It's also that much more conspicuous in social situations, these days someone's more likely to think "who's the weirdo with the P&S" than be self conscious about what I'm shooting. It's light and small enough that I don't even mind it on a wrist strap tho.

I can't see myself splurging on an RX100 anymore unless it dropped under $500...

With the GM1 I'm finding my M4/3 gear as a whole more usable than ever, on the rare occasion that I don't wanna be seen with a camera on me at all (like if I'm a groomsman in a wedding ceremony or with strangers) I'll just reach for my old P&S (LF1) or simply the phone.

I live in a warmer part of the world as well and jackets are maybe a month mid winter on a cold day. I don't see the GM1 as a pocket camera - just a small one. Therefore a carry bag of some sort is necessary. But any given size carry bag will carry a whole lot more gear if it is based on the GM1 as a system camera. So I load my little cameras up with whatever lenses that I need without feeling that they need babying with only the tiniest lenses lest they break .....

A Ricoh GR can give you first class prime lens performance in a quite small package.

While Helsinki is about as south as you get in Finland, we are pretty much "north of the Wall" here (60 deg N) and I'd say it's jacket weather at least 9 months a year. So even the E-PLs might be pocketable to some extent.

Regards,

Timo

TimoK wrote:

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a small inexpensive pocket camera and noticed I could get the PEN E-PL6 + 14-42 EZ kit for 399 eur. On the other hand, I could also get the Sony DSC-RX100 (the original) for the same amount. Both prices are for new units. Obviously the Sony is smaller. Oly has the bigger sensor but I'm not sure how the pancake fares optically against the Sony. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Timo

Hi Timo,

It's a fair enough question you ask, but it is a bit like comparing two unlike entities, in another words: what tastes better apples or oranges? The Olympus Pen cameras are excellent, but their strength lies in the fact that (1) they are interchangeable lens or "system" cameras and (2) there are many very good prime lenses for the camera. The Olmpus zooms are o.k., but are not the strength of the system.

So if you just want a camera with a zoom and one that is small as possible go with the SONY fixed lens camera.

If you want a camera on which you can try different lenses and can handle some great prime lenses do for the E-PL5.

I had the RX100 but sold it

Even though the images are good, the ample DOF was not to my liking

I'm so used to either FF or m43 images as compared to those from the 1" sensor, especially in regard to DOF control

On the MFT front you now have many choices:

1) the LX100 : not quite pocketable but small enough for cargo pants; multiple aspect ratio; retractable and bright lens; usable focal range; silent shutter

downside is low res of 12MP, lack of tilt LCD, the tiny EVF and slow electronic zoom ( I sold it after 2 weeks of use)

2) the GM1: a marvel of engineering feat; a 12-32mm perfectly mated to the body (albeit a bit dim); even smaller than the RX100 except for the thickness of the lens; silent shutter; a better cam than the RX100 if you ask me

downside is the unfriendly ergo, lack of EVF, lack of IBIS, lack of tilt LCD; I shoot a lot of street and the ergo lets it down

3) the EPL7: excellent build and handsome camera; best ergo among the 3; has IBIS and tilt LCD;

it's becoming my daily walkabout camera (the GM1 was before it); can make use of external EVF; can make use of all non IS lenses

downside: no silent shutter, a bit larger /heavier than the GM1 and RX100; no builtin flash

Cheers,

Thank you everyone for your input!

After your suggestions I read a few more reviews, especially of the GM1 vs. RX100 and tested both at a local store. I decided in favor of the GM1 and bought it at the store for 299 eur with the kit lens, which I think was a great bargain. I also picked up the Panny 20 mm f/1.7 II for another 299 eur. Of course on the GM1 the non-stabilized 1.7 doesn't offer much more low light capability than the kit zoom but it still seemed like a good addition and will of course be a much more versatile tool on the E-M1.

Having now set up the GM1 for my use (i.e. switched the mode dial to 'A' and figured out how to adjust exposure compensation, ISO and focus behavior) I find no other fault with the ergonomy besides the obvious: the lack of a view finder and a tilting screen. On the other hand, as such the camera appears quite robust with the minimal amount of moving parts and so far I'm satisfied with the purchase.

Both the lenses seem quite sharp at least in the center. More tests of image quality will have to wait until I get some decent light again.

Best regards,

Timo