Yet another "Canon S120 or G16" thread :-)

Hello,

coming from a Powershot SD700 IS (or IXUS 800 IS) from 2006 (still very good for daylight shots), I want to - finally - upgrade to something that will be better for low light photos (duh..)

I hesitate between the Canon S120 or G16.

What matters to me :

- fast AF. Important. It wasn't the case until these two S and G models, if I remember correctly. (a Canon S95 or G11 AF was much slower than the SD700's)

- good minimum focusing distance for macro shots (SD700 : 2 cm)

- good battery life (SD700 : 250 to 300)

- decent TELE specs (SD700 : 35-140 , zoom 4x)

- and of course, being able to take good night shots without flash or cranking up the ISO.

I see that the Canon S120 and G16 are very similar.

The G16 has apparently a very good macro capability (1 cm) and the lens goes up to 140.

The Canon 120 has a wider angle (24), but to be honest, I'm not sure I would prefer it to the G16's value (28), since until now, I'm really fine with the SD700's "old" 35 mm at wide.

... and the G16's lens is still at F2.8 at TELE.

But the G16 is bigger. Really "that" bigger ?

It seems like I've already answered my own question, but what would you do ?

Or should I wait for a hypothetically G17 ? (meanwhile, the G16's prices are dropping...)

Thanks for your inputs.

I have the S110, G16 and the G1x II, and I love them all. The s110 and the S120 are honestly so similar I think its fine to speak on them compared. So.....

1. Wide, the image quality is VERY similar. The extra width of the S110 isn't enough that it matters a whole lot, but the quality is about the same.

2. Zoomed in, the S110 takes on a really "flat" quality. The G16 feels like a camera with a bigger sensor zoomed in......its hard to explain. I know a big part is the faster lens, but even stepped down to the same f-stop, the g16 images zoomed to the same focal length have an additional sense of depth to the image. For zoom quality, the G16 wins hands down.

3. The viewfinder of the G16 is laughable. If that is in your head, put it out. It is a composing hole at best.

4. The battery of the G16 lasts and lasts and lasts. If you care about battery life, the G16 is worth it just from not having to worry.

5. Feel wise, the g16 is perfect. While the G1x II gives me a better camera as far as quality, the g16 feels so good that I would almost rather grab it just for feel alone.

6. Both are kinda noisy in low light, but the G16 is WAY more useful in low light from the faster lenses zoomed. The noise from both is actually pretty natural, and has a pleasant "grain" quality in black&white.

Note on the j5-I have a j3 and an s1......they are fun, but they are bigger than you think, and the lenses are pretty garbage save for the 18mm F1.8. Also, lack of live exposure preview is a huge pain in the ass. You will always be packing more lenses in your bag to get the same experience that you get out of one camera.

If I had to pick one, the g16. The s110 is an amazing backup camera, but you will always want more. The g16 is a great all singing all dancing camera.

Here are some shots from each to help-

S110-

G16-

Another vote for the G16. I have the S110 and really love how much camera is packed into its super-compact body, but the G16 feels more substantial and is much nicer to handle, IMO. Also the fast f/1.8-2.8 lens is superb and being able to shoot at f/2.8 while zoomed all the way in at 140mm is wonderful, and supremely useful in low light. I absolutely love the G16. Mine gets much less use since buying the G7 X, but I still believe it's an outstanding camera.

Andy

Basically the S120 and G16 are two different types of cameras; using DPR's descriptions the S120 is a high-end pocketable and the G16 is an enthusiasts compact.

If small size/pocketable is your high on your priority list then the S120 would be the better choice if you do not mind the slower f/5.7 at the tele end.

If looking for small fix-lens compact that can be used in lieu of a DSLR (when you do not want to carry DSLR) the G16 a good option with its 28-140mm (equiv) f/1.8-2.8 lens, front/rear control dials, hot shoe, and optical viewfinder--yes its crude but better than nothing when shooting in bright sunlight. G16 can also accept extension adapter to use filters, or 1.4x tele converter lens.

See DPR's G16 & S120 comparison DPR's G16 & S120 comparison for a quick side-by-side overview.

To get the most info on the G16 read DPR's G15 Full Review , then DPR's G16 Preview.

See/use DPR's Studio scene comparison tool to do a comparison of the G16 and S120 IQ at different ISO settings and lighting settings.

FYI another camera you might want to look at is the Olympus Stylus 1. It also has a 1/1.7" sensor, 28-300mm (equiv) constant f/2.8 lens with an excellent Hi-Res EFV.

I bought a G15 initially to complement my S100 however since falling in love with the fast lens and getting shots I never would have with my S100, I now use the G15 in every conceivable situation that I possibly can which is at now at least 90% of the time.  Only when I absolutely need the true pocketability, do I carry the S100.

Andy, do you miss the reach of the G16?  Or do you find, you can crop the G7X image and essentially get the same reach?  Later on in the spring if a G17 or depending on specs of a possible G3X release by then, I may make the plunge for a G7X to replace my G15.  Nervous about the focus misfire issues I read about though.

racollins wrote:

Another vote for the G16. I have the S110 and really love how much camera is packed into its super-compact body, but the G16 feels more substantial and is much nicer to handle, IMO. Also the fast f/1.8-2.8 lens is superb and being able to shoot at f/2.8 while zoomed all the way in at 140mm is wonderful, and supremely useful in low light. I absolutely love the G16. Mine gets much less use since buying the G7 X, but I still believe it's an outstanding camera.

Andy

geepondy wrote:

Andy, do you miss the reach of the G16? Or do you find, you can crop the G7X image and essentially get the same reach? Later on in the spring if a G17 or depending on specs of a possible G3X release by then, I may make the plunge for a G7X to replace my G15. Nervous about the focus misfire issues I read about though.

racollins wrote:

Another vote for the G16. I have the S110 and really love how much camera is packed into its super-compact body, but the G16 feels more substantial and is much nicer to handle, IMO. Also the fast f/1.8-2.8 lens is superb and being able to shoot at f/2.8 while zoomed all the way in at 140mm is wonderful, and supremely useful in low light. I absolutely love the G16. Mine gets much less use since buying the G7 X, but I still believe it's an outstanding camera.

Andy

I don't miss the reach for precisely the reason you stated. There are a couple of things I like better about the G16; I think the AF is a little faster on the G16, and I love the feel of the G16 in my hand better. That's about it though. The IQ of the G7X is amazing to me and exactly what I've always wished the IQ of my G-cameras had been, and the ability to blur the background more is nice too. I really love the G7X. At the same time, if something were to happen to it and I was left with just my G16, I would still be very happy. I think it's a superb and very well balanced and capable camera.

Andy

Apparently there is no CHDK version for S120 or G16 (because of DIGIC 6 ?)

It's too bad, because some features are very interesting. (like the precise battery-charge level)

Does this troubles you ?

I don't think s110 can be considered the same in terms of this OP. They have different sensors, processors, lenses and features. The s120 has the same sensor and processor as g16, different glass.

Consider whether the wide aperture when zoomed is important to you. It will come in handy for low light, that's for sure. But they really are different in terms of size. I have s120, I like it, but often miss the wider aperture.

Consider g7x as well if its in your budget.

There is no chkdk for Digic6 yet. May never be. They've made nearly zero progress in the last year I've been following it.

The S110 and S120 sensors are on par.....its a small improvement at best. Its not night and day, at all. The lens is slightly faster, but, f1.8 vs f2 is not very much of a difference. Pixel peepers won't see much.

G7x is a great camera......the g16 has a better lens, and feels lightyears better. Its an expert camera VS an advanced amateur camera. I guess its what is important to you.

The S110 and S120 sensors are on par.....its a small improvement at best. Its not night and day, at all. The lens is slightly faster, but, f1.8 vs f2 is not very much of a difference. Pixel peepers won't see much.

G7x is a great camera......the g16 has a better lens, and feels lightyears better. Its an expert camera VS an advanced amateur camera. I guess its what is important to you.

The g7x is a significantly better camera for low light than g16. Far more versatile and cleaner shots. Not even on the same level.

S120 and s110 only alike in sensor size and body style. Otherwise a completely different camera. Far quicker, different processor, different lens, different LCD, different sensor, backlit, touch to focus video, 1080p60 video. They're as far apart as any recent 1 1/7" cameras get.

damian5000 wrote:

The S110 and S120 sensors are on par.....its a small improvement at best. Its not night and day, at all. The lens is slightly faster, but, f1.8 vs f2 is not very much of a difference. Pixel peepers won't see much.

G7x is a great camera......the g16 has a better lens, and feels lightyears better. Its an expert camera VS an advanced amateur camera. I guess its what is important to you.

The g7x is a significantly better camera for low light than g16. Far more versatile and cleaner shots. Not even on the same level.

S120 and s110 only alike in sensor size and body style. Otherwise a completely different camera. Far quicker, different processor, different lens, different LCD, different sensor, backlit, touch to focus video, 1080p60 video. They're as far apart as any recent 1 1/7" cameras get.

Have you actually used them side by side at length? It is like the upgrade from iphone 4 to iPhone 4s. The pictures are about the same. The video isn't great, frame rate be damned. And you lose 24p video, which makes the gain in frame rate a wash. The lens is faster on paper, but are you going to notice a 3rd of a stop? Really? Auto focus feels almost the same side by side. Same with speed. Screen is better but the screen was already great.

As far as the g7x, you loose zoom range and it feels like a really good consumer pocket camera, not an expert compact. Like I said, its the FEEL. The g7x feels dumbed down from when I go from my g1xII or my g16.....or for that matter my A77II. The g16 doesn't feel dumbed down at all.

Profbx wrote:

damian5000 wrote:

The S110 and S120 sensors are on par.....its a small improvement at best. Its not night and day, at all. The lens is slightly faster, but, f1.8 vs f2 is not very much of a difference. Pixel peepers won't see much.

G7x is a great camera......the g16 has a better lens, and feels lightyears better. Its an expert camera VS an advanced amateur camera. I guess its what is important to you.

The g7x is a significantly better camera for low light than g16. Far more versatile and cleaner shots. Not even on the same level.

S120 and s110 only alike in sensor size and body style. Otherwise a completely different camera. Far quicker, different processor, different lens, different LCD, different sensor, backlit, touch to focus video, 1080p60 video. They're as far apart as any recent 1 1/7" cameras get.

Have you actually used them side by side at length? It is like the upgrade from iphone 4 to iPhone 4s. The pictures are about the same. The video isn't great, frame rate be damned. And you lose 24p video, which makes the gain in frame rate a wash. The lens is faster on paper, but are you going to notice a 3rd of a stop? Really? Auto focus feels almost the same side by side. Same with speed. Screen is better but the screen was already great.

As far as the g7x, you loose zoom range and it feels like a really good consumer pocket camera, not an expert compact. Like I said, its the FEEL. The g7x feels dumbed down from when I go from my g1xII or my g16.....or for that matter my A77II. The g16 doesn't feel dumbed down at all.

I certainly don't feel like the G7X feels dumbed down from the G16. It feels different for sure, more like an S-series on steroids, but even that's not quite accurate.  It has all of the features the G16 has including a fast f/1.8-2.8 lens. What you lose in focal range you gain in the ability to crop. The image quality alone is on a different level than the image quality from the G16 and that makes the experience of using the G7X a richer one for me. That combined with the fast lens makes some things possible with the G7X that I can't quite do with the G16 such as isolating the subject from the background better, and cleaner nighttime/star shots to name just a couple. I love the G16 and it is still one of my favorite cameras, but what the G7X helps me to accomplish is what I always wished the G16 could do. I like the way the G16 handles better than the G7X, but I like the pictures I create with the G7X much better. It feels like a step up from the G16 to me.

Andy

Profbx wrote:

damian5000 wrote:

The S110 and S120 sensors are on par.....its a small improvement at best. Its not night and day, at all. The lens is slightly faster, but, f1.8 vs f2 is not very much of a difference. Pixel peepers won't see much.

G7x is a great camera......the g16 has a better lens, and feels lightyears better. Its an expert camera VS an advanced amateur camera. I guess its what is important to you.

The g7x is a significantly better camera for low light than g16. Far more versatile and cleaner shots. Not even on the same level.

S120 and s110 only alike in sensor size and body style. Otherwise a completely different camera. Far quicker, different processor, different lens, different LCD, different sensor, backlit, touch to focus video, 1080p60 video. They're as far apart as any recent 1 1/7" cameras get.

Have you actually used them side by side at length? It is like the upgrade from iphone 4 to iPhone 4s. The pictures are about the same. The video isn't great, frame rate be damned. And you lose 24p video, which makes the gain in frame rate a wash. The lens is faster on paper, but are you going to notice a 3rd of a stop? Really? Auto focus feels almost the same side by side. Same with speed. Screen is better but the screen was already great.

As far as the g7x, you loose zoom range and it feels like a really good consumer pocket camera, not an expert compact. Like I said, its the FEEL. The g7x feels dumbed down from when I go from my g1xII or my g16.....or for that matter my A77II. The g16 doesn't feel dumbed down at all.

I certainly don't feel like the G7X feels dumbed down from the G16. It feels different for sure, more like an S-series on steroids, but even that's not quite accurate.  It has all of the features the G16 has including a fast f/1.8-2.8 lens. What you lose in focal range you gain in the ability to crop. The image quality alone is on a different level than the image quality from the G16 and that makes the experience of using the G7X a richer one for me. That combined with the fast lens makes some things possible with the G7X that I can't quite do with the G16 such as isolating the subject from the background better, and cleaner nighttime/star shots to name just a couple. I love the G16 and it is still one of my favorite cameras, but what the G7X helps me to accomplish is what I always wished the G16 could do. I like the way the G16 handles better than the G7X, but I like the pictures I create with the G7X much better. It feels like a step up from the G16 to me.

Andy

Thank you Andy for saving me some effort.

And re s110 v s120, its a significant step up in many areas. Perhaps not so much in IQ, but the same could be said comparing any 1/1.7" cameras. I'm repeating myself, but they're as far apart as any cameras with sensors this size when looking at the big picture... So to speak.

Well,

thanks for all your answers. I've settled for a G16. I chose a Lowepro Rezo 50 for carrying case. It seems to be a discontinued model but I still found one.

Now waiting for my new camera ... !

I think you'd have been far better off with the g7x, both in terms of portability and improvement with low light shooting. But I hope you're happy regardless.