I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

Started Mar 23, 2015 | Discussions
RichRMA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,073
I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
3

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought.  A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body.  Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs.  Plus, a new lens line so  the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs.  Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

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apathyman Senior Member • Posts: 2,586
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
2

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

I couldn't agree more.

The lack of a large sensor mirrorless in the Pentax lineup is the reason I bought an Olympus E-M10.  I have a Q as well but it really can't compete with the bigger sensor cameras. Other than High ISO shooting, the E-M10 loses nothing compared with my K-5.

Cheers

Brian

Conjure
Conjure Contributing Member • Posts: 518
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
8

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

I do not need a new registration distance, because the difference of only 2.5 cm does not count that much.

registration distance:

Pentax K-Mount: 45,46mm
Micro-Four-Thirds: 19,62mm
Difference: 25.84mm (~1 inch)

OP RichRMA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,073
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

I remember reading once that the shorter the registration distance, the easier it was to design lenses that worked well with sensors.  Could have been nonsense, it was written in conjunction with Sony's release of the R9, a fixed-lens APS digital.

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apathyman Senior Member • Posts: 2,586
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

Conjure wrote:

I do not need a new registration distance, because the difference of only 2.5 cm does not count that much.

registration distance:

Pentax K-Mount: 45,46mm
Micro-Four-Thirds: 19,62mm
Difference: 25.84mm (~1 inch)

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter.  That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

Conjure
Conjure Contributing Member • Posts: 518
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
1

apathyman wrote:

Conjure wrote:

I do not need a new registration distance, because the difference of only 2.5 cm does not count that much.

registration distance:

Pentax K-Mount: 45,46mm
Micro-Four-Thirds: 19,62mm
Difference: 25.84mm (~1 inch)

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter. That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

I do not think that the support for some Konica Hexanon lenses or other old non-Pentax-lenses is an important design goal for Ricoh/Pentax.

Every adapter lowers the image quality: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-free-lunch-episode-763-lens-adapters

DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 5,249
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

Conjure wrote:

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

I do not need a new registration distance, because the difference of only 2.5 cm does not count that much.

registration distance:

Pentax K-Mount: 45,46mm
Micro-Four-Thirds: 19,62mm
Difference: 25.84mm (~1 inch)

A very well discussed subject!

Unfortunately it's a case where that inch counts for more than anywhere else!

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apathyman Senior Member • Posts: 2,586
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

Conjure wrote:

apathyman wrote:

Conjure wrote:

I do not need a new registration distance, because the difference of only 2.5 cm does not count that much.

registration distance:

Pentax K-Mount: 45,46mm
Micro-Four-Thirds: 19,62mm
Difference: 25.84mm (~1 inch)

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter. That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

I do not think that the support for some Konica Hexanon lenses or other old non-Pentax-lenses is an important design goal for Ricoh/Pentax.

I agree, but it's an important consideration for many buyers and might influence their buying decision.  It was certainly one of the two main reasons I didn't consider the K-01 (the other was lack of a viewfinder).

Other mirrorless cameras (including the Q series) offer it.

Cheers

Brian

Xiaomao
Xiaomao Senior Member • Posts: 2,060
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

I dreamed and dream of a Q with a MFT or APS-C sensor, too.

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LightBug Senior Member • Posts: 2,382
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
2

apathyman wrote:

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter. That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

Seems to not make sense financially for Ricoh/Pentax to support a shorter registration mount/camera just to please people who do not even plan to buy/use Ricoh/Pentax lenses with it.  If you need mirrorless for adapting lenses, there are plenty of vendors and adapters already available.

Joey

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rogerstpierre Veteran Member • Posts: 3,986
That would mean yet another mount, unless...
1

Pentax adopts the Leica T mount, which IMO would be awesome.

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howieb101 Contributing Member • Posts: 610
Mirrorless small size advantage is slowly being lost

Well, the m43 cameras and lenses still tend to be small and compact.

However, if you look at Fujifilm and their new lenses (see mockup of 90mm F2 (2.8?)) it is gigantic.

Frankly it seems that Fujifilm is slowly losing the plot with their lenses. The rangefinder styled bodies really would suit Pentax styled primes, ie, small. That 90mm on a X-E2 would seem very difficult to hold properly.

If Fujifilm keep going with these gigantic lenses, choosing Fuji has to be based on the camera delivering what you want specification wise rather than any:

  • size; or
  • weight advantages.

Pentax Mirrorless

I am thinking that any mirrorless should be under the Ricoh GR banner. Pentax as a brand doesn't seem to have that many positive connotations and it may be reviewed better under Ricoh. Sad but true.

A Ricoh mirrorless could also be fullframe. They have the opportunity with the forthcoming Pentax fullframe DSLR to get additional economies of scale if they roled out a fullframe mirrorless at the same time.

Make it have a modern short registration distance with K mount compatibility and available K mount adapter at time of release. They could also bundle the adapter with the camera if they were really generous.

Heck if they went for broke they could also bring out a medium format mirrorless. They must have the best economies of scale for medium format sensors at the moment and could potentially make a killing (it could also kill off the 645Z as well). Again, have a Pentax 645 adapter at release and the camera might go off big time. Having the adapter would also allow them some time to release new lenses.

Howie B

OP RichRMA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,073
Re: Mirrorless small size advantage is slowly being lost

There is pressure on companies to cater to the upper middle and upper classes with more expensive products which includes faster and as a consequence, larger premium lenses.  This is where profits are now perceived to be.  So, any idea about having lenses which are ultra-compact is secondary in some cases now.

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TacticDesigns
TacticDesigns Veteran Member • Posts: 5,133
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
2

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

If so . . . make it WR!  

I know this gets mentioned, probably a lot, but is it at all possible to squeeze in a 1" sensor into the Q? Even if some lenses need to be used in cropped mode?

And . . . why no WR Q?

Although, I must admit I really took a close look at the K-30, K-50 and the K-S2 looks like an awesome size and its WR!

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KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,885
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
4

RichRMA wrote:

I remember reading once that the shorter the registration distance, the easier it was to design lenses that worked well with sensors. Could have been nonsense, it was written in conjunction with Sony's release of the R9, a fixed-lens APS digital.

It's not necessarily the registration distance that's the problem, it's the distance from the rear element to the sensor. With the K-01, Pentax originally displayed mockups of a wide-angle lens that was very small like the 40xs on the outside but extended optical elements inside the "mirror box" of the K-01. It would have only been compatible with mirrorless K-mount bodies, because it would have otherwise hit the mirror. IMO that's the way to go to design a new mirrorless that can be as compact as the competition, especially with the new collapsible zoom. I also feel the new kit lens has been designed with just such a successor to the K-01 in mind.

Matt

apathyman Senior Member • Posts: 2,586
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
1

LightBug wrote:

apathyman wrote:

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter. That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

Seems to not make sense financially for Ricoh/Pentax to support a shorter registration mount/camera just to please people who do not even plan to buy/use Ricoh/Pentax lenses with it. If you need mirrorless for adapting lenses, there are plenty of vendors and adapters already available.

Joey

Perhaps, but using adapted lenses, while useful especially for specialist lenses (such as my 55mm Hexanon macro), is never going to be as convenient as using native lenses.  I really don't think having a mirrorless camera with a short registration distance would appreciably affect sales of native lenses.

In any case, if the standard K mount were to be used, people would just use their existing K mount lenses.

It's probably all moot anyway.  I'm not expecting another large sensor mirrorless from Pentax in the short term, at least.

Cheers

Brian

TacticDesigns
TacticDesigns Veteran Member • Posts: 5,133
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

apathyman wrote:

LightBug wrote:

apathyman wrote:

That may be so but one problem with maintaining the K-mount registration distance is that it precludes the use of legacy lenses via an adapter. That's important for me - I routinely use some Konica Hexanon lenses on my Olympus E-M10 via a simple adapter. I can do the same thing with the Q.

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

Seems to not make sense financially for Ricoh/Pentax to support a shorter registration mount/camera just to please people who do not even plan to buy/use Ricoh/Pentax lenses with it. If you need mirrorless for adapting lenses, there are plenty of vendors and adapters already available.

Joey

Perhaps, but using adapted lenses, while useful especially for specialist lenses (such as my 55mm Hexanon macro), is never going to be as convenient as using native lenses. I really don't think having a mirrorless camera with a short registration distance would appreciably affect sales of native lenses.

In any case, if the standard K mount were to be used, people would just use their existing K mount lenses.

It's probably all moot anyway. I'm not expecting another large sensor mirrorless from Pentax in the short term, at least.

Cheers

Brian

+1

I'm anxious to see what the Pentax Full Frame ends up being like!

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ogl
ogl Senior Member • Posts: 1,509
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less
1

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

wrong direction IMO

Q and GR are Ricoh's mirrorless. No any sense to produce new mount.

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ogl
ogl Senior Member • Posts: 1,509
Re: I thought the Q was very clever, now Pentax needs a bigger mirror-less

A Pentax large-sensor mirrorless could maintain K mount compatibility via an autofocus adapter in much the same way as Olympus has done in maintaining compatibility with its older E-series lenses.

Cheers

Brian

For what???? It's nonsense way.

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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 9,344
What Pentax doesn't need now is a large sensor mirror-less system
2

RichRMA wrote:

Not like the K-01, which I liked but few bought. A scaled-up Q would be good, because it had a terrific, functional body. Something higher-end, build like a K3 or Olympus OM-D, higher than the other plastic K DSLRs. Plus, a new lens line so the registration distance wouldn't have to be the same as the DSLRs. Their terrific pancake lenses were frankly wasted on the K-01 owing to its bulk.

You said "now Pentax needs". What's happening now? Well, Pentax/Ricoh is preparing to launch their first FF DSLR, and they already (re)started the new D FA lens series: 2 lenses announced, 3 more on the public roadmap, who knows how many on their internal roadmaps or being discussed.

Obviously, this should have priority above anything else (the 645z has a low lens launch rate, and the Q is more or less on hold). Obviously, they can't launch two lens lines at once; that means postponing essential lenses from both lines - thus hurting both systems. Even camera-side there are problems - they would have to work hard on mirrorless-specific things like an EVF or a high-performance on-sensor AF system (a DSLR can be forgiven if its LV AF is not top notch compared with the best MILCs). In conclusion: this is something they definitely don't need now.

After the D FA lens line is reasonably completed, why not.

Alex

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