Help: I love M43 but on the edge

eBrain wrote:

First post; hopefully someone can help without getting into MFT vs FF war

I am long time MFT user and heavily invested in MFT gear......

We could make more useful comments with some photos with EXIF data.

But some of your kit is not useful for your stated purpose - The G5 sensor is outdated and lacks dynamic range for what you want, the Rokinin 7.5mm is too slow for indoor events, the 14-42 is too slow - all these I would sell for sure.

My Suggestions:

For BI, sports and good dynamic range and IQ consider the EM1 - with the latest firmware 3.0 has 10fps with phase detect autofocus and fast tracking this has good chance of getting your BIF images, and has really good dynamic range and sharpness, and good IBIS for your legacy lenses. The EM1 also gives you access to all the Oly 4/3 lenses with reasonably fast autofocus and some pretty fast glass.

Sell the GH4 to pay for the EM1. GH4 is great for video, costs 80% more than EM-1 and you aren't into video.

You will probably want the the Oly 75-300 or Panny 100-300 instead of the 45-200, and you will later have the option to move to the Oly 300mm F4.

Consider getting a Metabones Speedbooster for your legacy lenses, I have a Canon FD 200mmF2.8, FD85mmF1.5 and FD50mm F1.4 - with FD-M43 speedbooster these become 140mm F2.0, 60mm F1.3 and 35mm F1.0. Pretty good deal for one Speedbooster, and the IQ is excellent.

Now for Bokeh and and indoor sports events , you may want more fast glass with autofocus. Panny 42.5mm F1.2 is blazing fast and excellent glass. Oly 75mm F1.8 is also stellar. Oly 45mm F1.8 is well thought of. But you may already have legacy lenses which will cover. The Oly 4/3 50mm F2 Macro is not expensive or large, and has been reviewed to give great IQ and focus performance on the EM1.

On the wide side, consider the 12-35/2.8 Panny or 12-40mm/F2.8 Oly as your zoom - considerably faster and better than the 14-42 kit zoom you have. A little short on background blur, but fast enough for event photograghy as long as its not sports AND dark

The Panny 15mm F1.7 is sharp, great for event photography and gives more blur and bokeh. Nice IQ and bokeh, good complement to the 25mm F1.4 you already have. If you want serious bokeh and blur in a wide angle, consider the Voigtlander 17mm F0.95.

For wide angle (to replace the Rokinon 7mm F3.5) consider the soon to be released Oly 7-14 F2.8, Oly 8mm F1.8 or Voigtlander Cosina 10.5mm F0.95. Any of these should do nicely as a superwide for event photography and low light. (will weigh more than the Rokinon but without as much distortion )

I have the EM1, Panny 12-35, 35-100, 100-300. Also the Oly 25 F1.8, 9-18, and the Panny 15 F1.7.

I am planning to sell the G5, 20mmF1.8, 14-42, Rokonon 7.5mm. Probably keep the GX7, 45-200 and the 14-45 for wilderness photography, I won't cry to hard if one falls out of the boat very handy size and reach.

Eric Nepean wrote:

eBrain wrote:

First post; hopefully someone can help without getting into MFT vs FF war

I am long time MFT user and heavily invested in MFT gear......

We could make more useful comments with some photos with EXIF data.

But some of your kit is not useful for your stated purpose - The G5 sensor is outdated and lacks dynamic range for what you want, the Rokinin 7.5mm is too slow for indoor events, the 14-42 is too slow - all these I would sell for sure.

Absolutely right. My GX7 has much greater DR, which allows me to lift underexposed areas in low-light event shots by at least a full stop more than I could with my G3, G6 or GX1. GH4 should be as good in this regard.

As a side note, I'm a soon-to-be-former Aperture user checking out alternatives, and DXO Optics Pro 10's PRIME noise reduction is amazing. Some of the low-light noise challenges I've wrestled with at ISO 3200+ are about to go away. I mean, if I process my GX7 ISO 3200 images with DXO and downsample to the 8MP files I usually deliver (they're going straight to Web, after all), they look every bit as clean and detailed as RAWs from a Nikon D750 (a real low-light monster) processed in Aperture. This is really going to open some doors for me in using low ambient light when I don't need to print bigger than A2 (12"x18").

My Suggestions:

For BI, sports and good dynamic range and IQ consider the EM1 - with the latest firmware 3.0 has 10fps with phase detect autofocus and fast tracking this has good chance of getting your BIF images, and has really good dynamic range and sharpness, and good IBIS for your legacy lenses. The EM1 also gives you access to all the Oly 4/3 lenses with reasonably fast autofocus and some pretty fast glass.

Sell the GH4 to pay for the EM1. GH4 is great for video, costs 80% more than EM-1 and you aren't into video

With the exception of IBIS, the GH4 performs as well as the E-M1. Resolution and noise are comparable, and The Camera Store found it to (slightly) outperform the E-M1 at both single and continuous AF.

http://youtu.be/up8K_xd_iwU

As far as price goes, it's $1,399 (E-M1) vs. $1,498 (GH4) at B&H and $1000 vs $1200 on eBay. That's a price difference of 7%-20%, not 80%.

You will probably want the the Oly 75-300 or Panny 100-300 instead of the 45-200, and you will later have the option to move to the Oly 300mm F4.

The longer FL does seem more appropriate for birding. To be fair, none of these lenses are particularly good for this application, with small apertures and middling AF at the long end. Will we ever get an updated constant f4 long zoom?

Now for Bokeh and and indoor sports events , you may want more fast glass with autofocus. Panny 42.5mm F1.2 is blazing fast and excellent glass. Oly 75mm F1.8 is also stellar. Oly 45mm F1.8 is well thought of. But you may already have legacy lenses which will cover. The Oly 4/3 50mm F2 Macro is not expensive or large, and has been reviewed to give great IQ and focus performance on the EM1.

Voigtlander's f0.95 lenses look really intriguing as well. They're MF, but especially with wides the DoF and focus peaking should make manual focusing easy.

On the wide side, consider the 12-35/2.8 Panny or 12-40mm/F2.8 Oly as your zoom - considerably faster and better than the 14-42 kit zoom you have. A little short on background blur, but fast enough for event photograghy as long as its not sports AND dark

Yup. I shoot events with 12-35 f2.8, 35-100 f2.8, 20 f1.7 and 45 f1.8. And, I'm increasingly doing it with available light at ISO 1600 & 3200 rather than using flash.

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

eBrain wrote:

First post; hopefully someone can help without getting into MFT vs FF war

I am long time MFT user and heavily invested in MFT gear......

We could make more useful comments with some photos with EXIF data.

But some of your kit is not useful for your stated purpose - The G5 sensor is outdated and lacks dynamic range for what you want, the Rokinin 7.5mm is too slow for indoor events, the 14-42 is too slow - all these I would sell for sure.

Absolutely right. My GX7 has much greater DR, which allows me to lift underexposed areas in low-light event shots by at least a full stop more than I could with my G3, G6 or GX1. GH4 should be as good in this regard.

As a side note, I'm a soon-to-be-former Aperture user checking out alternatives, and DXO Optics Pro 10's PRIME noise reduction is amazing. Some of the low-light noise challenges I've wrestled with at ISO 3200+ are about to go away. I mean, if I process my GX7 ISO 3200 images with DXO and downsample to the 8MP files I usually deliver (they're going straight to Web, after all), they look every bit as clean and detailed as RAWs from a Nikon D750 (a real low-light monster) processed in Aperture. This is really going to open some doors for me in using low ambient light when I don't need to print bigger than A2 (12"x18").

My Suggestions:

For BI, sports and good dynamic range and IQ consider the EM1 - with the latest firmware 3.0 has 10fps with phase detect autofocus and fast tracking this has good chance of getting your BIF images, and has really good dynamic range and sharpness, and good IBIS for your legacy lenses. The EM1 also gives you access to all the Oly 4/3 lenses with reasonably fast autofocus and some pretty fast glass.

Sell the GH4 to pay for the EM1. GH4 is great for video, costs 80% more than EM-1 and you aren't into video

With the exception of IBIS, the GH4 performs as well as the E-M1. Resolution and noise are comparable, and The Camera Store found it to (slightly) outperform the E-M1 at both single and continuous AF.

http://youtu.be/up8K_xd_iwU

The EM1 Firmware update 3 last week has resulted in a considerable improvement in autofocus especially at high framework -  important for BIF and moving wildlife.

I bought (and reccomend) the Em1 for access to good glass -  legacy lenses with IBIS, M43 lenses of course, and 4/3 lenses with stabilization and autofocus.

As far as price goes, it's $1,399 (E-M1) vs. $1,498 (GH4) at B&H and $1000 vs $1200 on eBay. That's a price difference of 7%-20%, not 80%.

I got a good deal on the EM-1 at $1000 recently but I see that's not generally available. I stand corrected on the GH4 price.

You will probably want the the Oly 75-300 or Panny 100-300 instead of the 45-200, and you will later have the option to move to the Oly 300mm F4.

The longer FL does seem more appropriate for birding. To be fair, none of these lenses are particularly good for this application, with small apertures and middling AF at the long end. Will we ever get an updated constant f4 long zoom?

With the EM1 you have access to, for example, the Olympus 4/3 70-300 F4-5.6 for about $400, with stabilization and reasonable speed autofocus

Now for Bokeh and and indoor sports events , you may want more fast glass with autofocus. Panny 42.5mm F1.2 is blazing fast and excellent glass. Oly 75mm F1.8 is also stellar. Oly 45mm F1.8 is well thought of. But you may already have legacy lenses which will cover. The Oly 4/3 50mm F2 Macro is not expensive or large, and has been reviewed to give great IQ and focus performance on the EM1.

Voigtlander's f0.95 lenses look really intriguing as well. They're MF, but especially with wides the DoF and focus peaking should make manual focusing easy.

Agreed. I'm quite interested in the upcoming 10.5mm F0.95

On the wide side, consider the 12-35/2.8 Panny or 12-40mm/F2.8 Oly as your zoom - considerably faster and better than the 14-42 kit zoom you have. A little short on background blur, but fast enough for event photograghy as long as its not sports AND dark

Yup. I shoot events with 12-35 f2.8, 35-100 f2.8, 20 f1.7 and 45 f1.8. And, I'm increasingly doing it with available light at ISO 1600 & 3200 rather than using flash.

Me too, except I prefer the 15/1.7 instead of the 20/1.7

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markymark101 wrote:

Rent FF gear and see if it does it for you.

^^this

Also, FF is not known for birding, tbh. Reach isn't quite there, and FF plus the AF system you need is very, very, very expensive. A crop DSLR with good AF is what is usually used for quality birding, but then the Oly EM1 gives you more reach from the crop, and has good AF. I would think with the 50-150 + TC it would be a nice fit.

Indoors is about bright lenses and good high ISO. How long of a focal length do you need? For close up stuff, I used my Sony RX100 all the time for indoor events, so it's not sensor size. A FF rig would be nice, but make sure it's got good low light AF. MF and poor low light AF indoors will drive you crazy. I used a Canon 6D with it's super-sensitive center point AF to great use for indoors.

Bokeh is bokeh. Lens choice is a big part of that. '3D Pop' is generally easier in full frame. No way to sugar coat it.

Go for what works for you, but do rent before you buy. Selling gear and then rebuying the same gear later is SUPER expensive!

sinkas wrote:

It is simply about having the right tool for the job. There are many people that have a Micro 4/3 system and a DSLR system, they compliment each other admirably.

I for one use both D7100 and my new found love.. Olympus EM-1.

I practically shoot everything with the EM-1 now, except wildlife and BIF, which I will definitely use the D7100. It is just superior in C-AF.

Being on the adge, be careful, do not cut yourself in halves.

What can one say.   Do  not jump unless there is a net! The grass is always greener.  If you see others succeeding where you fail, will a loss in selling out help matters. Stop and reflect.  M43 is not for all people but I bet you can stay with the system and achieve your goals.  Nothing inherent in this size and the product to stop you.  Dont be impatient since the system works for all subjects.  It really does.  But your loss will be someone;s gain and stoke the economy so maybe we should not dissuade.....be well and prosper.

Hi,

I had the same dilemma about a year ago. I shoot weddings & Dance concerts. I have been a loyal Oly user since the E300 and went through the whole line up - E300, E330, E30 E3, E5, EM5 & EM1.

The Oly cameras didn't giving me the AF speed or image quality at Hi ISO i require for clients so sold most of the gear and picked up a Nikon D610 and D7100 -and have not regretted the decision.

As far as weight goes, i shot the D7100 with a 70 200 2.8 and D610 with 24 70 2.8 on a spider belt and have no issues shooting a 12 hour day.

But having said all that my wife second shoots with a EM1, and except for low light shots, the images are usually on par with the Nikon's.

Go try a DSLR setup and see which suits, Full frame isnt the holy grail that everyone claims either, i shoot mostly with the D7100 which isnt much larger than a EM1 and image quality and AF speed is awesome. The full frame is only used for the couples portraits and really low light stuff.

And my travel camera is still the EM5

Glen