New m4/3 gear released in last 33 months

the gap is in the telephoto range - F4 and better.

my wish? A lens-stabilized 300 f4... light, fast-ish, not too expensive

trog100 wrote:

its a relative kind of slipping.. the competition is maybe improving at a faster rate..

Do we really want our top of the line cameras replaced by new models every year? I wonder how happy recent A7 buyers are now, that their camera was made obsolete by Sony just a year after it's initial release?

M43 desperately needs a major sensor upgrade to stay in the game..

Desperately? Stay in the game? I can see how the old 12mpx sensor was a limiting factor, it had some serious issues. But the current gen is perfectly fine. It stacks up very well against larger sensors, there's not much you can't do with it.

what was good enough fours year ago maybe isnt good enough now..

The current gen 16 mpx sensor was introduced 3 years ago with E-M5, so I don't know what you're talking about. I guess in your eyes, Nikon D4 (announced at the same time) is also not good enough and desperately in need of new sensor? I guess Canon 1D X is completely useless relic by your standards, since that is even 1 year older.

at the heart of it all is the sensor..

Yes, of course, there's nothing more important than the sensor. That's probably why Canon is such a strong player, they clearly must have the best sensors in the world.

if that dosnt improve the rest of it becomes irrelevant

That is a very backward way of thinking. I understand this is a gearhead forum, but your statement is extreme to the point of absurd. I don't see anyone claiming Nikon D4s is irrelevant because it's got an outdated (by your standards) sensor. And I can't imagine anyone switching from Canon 1D X to Nikon D610 because the sensor is newer.

sorry i aint adding to the feel good factor .. but that is the way my thinking goes..

And that sums it up pretty well. Maybe just chill out and curb that obsession with technology a bit? You know, get on the ground, closer to reality. Maybe, you know, use your camera more often. In like, get some joy out of using it, get some positive juices flowing, instead of worrying that a sensor upgrade will come one year later than you'd like to and the world will end because of it. Cheer up, man!

MayaTlab0 wrote:

traveler_101 wrote:

Thanks for putting things into perspective! Rather impressive performance on the part of the companies invested in this mount, wouldn't you agree? t am not sure why these "is m43 slipping" threads keep cropping up.

It's nice to see dynamism of this kind, but I also see there a lot of mismanagement and wasted resources. Fuji's done a much better job selecting what to do and not do (and even they didn't do a particularly brilliant job, as the X-A1/X-M1 demonstrated).

Olympus' latest fisheye pro prime is the illustration that they still haven't totally got their priorities fully figured out. It's going to be a very nice lens... but probably for a very, very limited number of people. Still, it's nice to see the development of higher-end zooms and the prime lineup filling out (although not in the most coordinated fashion unfortunately).

I'm not sure that the olympus fisheye is a misstep. I think it is niche but the 300 f4 is also niche. Yes there is the excellent Samyang Fisheye and panasonic have one. But a nice weather-sealed one with autofocus wouldn't go amiss. There is quite the market for wide fisheyes for sports use (snowboarding, skateboarding etc) and combined with the em5mk2 and the better stabilisation it might be very useful for video of those sports as well as other uses. So yes its niche but I don't think its sign of a strategy failure, I mean who would buy an olympus  300 f4 except a birder? Rather I think Olympus is carefully looking at a broad range of the community larger than street, portrait and nature photographers.

By the end of this year there will be pretty amazing range of choice at every focal length on the m4/3 mount, i'm not sure that there is any one obvious prime lens Olympus needs to do at this point. Although they don't use the pro designation the olympus 12, 25, 45 and 75 are great primes. I don't think weather sealing is as important on prime lenses, as much as I would like it by default, as to be honest, in wet conditions you're not going to want to be changing lenses much if at all, so a zoom makes more sense in those conditions.

I think the 7-14, 12-40, 40-150, and 300 f4 pros were the ones they really needed to get out to step the system up.

I would also like to either olympus or panasonic to do something about the purple fringing of panasonic lenses on olympus bodies. Either party can do it, I just wish one would.

trog100 wrote:

he he he.. the bottom line is to stay in business which both Panny and Oly have to do M34 needs a new sensor and soon..

its got very little to do with whether or not the current 16mp one is good enough or not.. it has everything to do with what future camera buyers will spent their money on and it isnt what they consider to be yesterdays technology..

I'm afraid a simple sensor upgrade will not be enough to bring in new buyers. It kinda looks like a new megapixel war has just started. But I'm really doubtful if that will convince many people to buy. Maybe all that techy stuff will be a reason for an upgrader. But for average Joe? I doubt it. IMHO, the constant hardware iteration game is the wrong way to go forward. A dead end. Few megapixels more, 1/3 stops better ISO, higher res EVF, more FPS. Nobody cares. Except us, photography and/or camera gear enthusiasts. So if all that is left of the customer base are people like us, than sure, having new tech will be essential. But at the same time, it will be the end of the camera industry as we know it.

three years (or so) ago i bought into M43 with a panny G3.. back then it was something special.. my current G6 apart from some added feature is still pretty much the same camera.. the sensor technology has stalled and unless this changes the future will not bode well for M43..

Not sure, but isn't the problem with G6 is that it got a sensor that was outdated from the get go? In a sense that Panasonic had access to better senor, but choose not to use it.

I think a new sensor will be released once the new pro series of lenses are almost complete. That is what swayed me from Fx. With a new sensor to match the complete line-up of the pro series lenses they will compel many more converts.

Astrotripper wrote:

I'm afraid a simple sensor upgrade will not be enough to bring in new buyers. It kinda looks like a new megapixel war has just started. But I'm really doubtful if that will convince many people to buy. Maybe all that techy stuff will be a reason for an upgrader. But for average Joe? I doubt it. IMHO, the constant hardware iteration game is the wrong way to go forward. A dead end. Few megapixels more, 1/3 stops better ISO, higher res EVF, more FPS. Nobody cares. Except us, photography and/or camera gear enthusiasts. So if all that is left of the customer base are people like us, than sure, having new tech will be essential. But at the same time, it will be the end of the camera industry as we know it.

Spot on, I think future developments should be more based on making cameras more accessible and more versatile.

This includes things like a great IS system, great focusing system and sensors that have low noise, because this means people can shoot without worrying about tripods and lighting setups. This means cameras become easier to use and have advantages over a phone camera.

But the spec war of dxo-mark and such is a relic of the past. If your camera has 16, 20 or 24 Mp is as relevant as if your family car has a top speed of 180, 190 or 200 kph. Ask yourself, do sou even know HP, torque and top speed of your car? Is it relevant if you're not race driver?

ThePalindrome wrote:

But the spec war of dxo-mark and such is a relic of the past. If your camera has 16, 20 or 24 Mp is as relevant as if your family car has a top speed of 180, 190 or 200 kph. Ask yourself, do sou even know HP, torque and top speed of your car? Is it relevant if you're not race driver?

Good analogy. Car manufacturers and salesmen might still throw those number at you, but they all know you don't sell a new model by increasing max speed by 10% etc. But camera companies know only that, iteration is so deeply engraved into their very souls, that they can't think out of the box (there are some hints that this might be changing, but only future will tell). They still want to make cameras. The problem is, people seem to be not as eager to buy cameras. And the solution is not to make better cameras (that people will still not buy).

I think Casio is the only exception, with their "lifestyle" cameras. "Serious" photography enthusiasts make fun of their $1500 selfie cams, but the fact is, Casio did what no other company could. They actually created a product that offered those asian girls something they wanted and solved their problems (ie. creating the best selfies possible).

And despite that obvious success, what's the response of "serious" camera companies? They add 180 degrees flippy screens (GF7, E-PL7 and few more from other players) and a selfie mode and call it a day. Yeah, that's not going to work, so that fad probably won't last for too long.

Astrotripper wrote:

trog100 wrote:

three years (or so) ago i bought into M43 with a panny G3.. back then it was something special.. my current G6 apart from some added feature is still pretty much the same camera.. the sensor technology has stalled and unless this changes the future will not bode well for M43..

Not sure, but isn't the problem with G6 is that it got a sensor that was outdated from the get go? In a sense that Panasonic had access to better senor, but choose not to use it.

So okay, trog, now we are getting down to it. YOUR camera has an older sensor, maybe half  generation off the Panasonic pace (and no, it is not the same as your G3), and you want to move up but you want to make a more than a half generation move.

I have the same camera -- and it is excellent. Have you tweaked your G6 input/output? I added a little red and a touch of yellow, and raised the contrast and the saturation a little. Makes a big difference.

Give that a try while you wait for the next camera of your dreams.

Astrotripper wrote:

I think Casio is the only exception, with their "lifestyle" cameras. "Serious" photography enthusiasts make fun of their $1500 selfie cams, but the fact is, Casio did what no other company could. They actually created a product that offered those asian girls something they wanted and solved their problems (ie. creating the best selfies possible).

And despite that obvious success, what's the response of "serious" camera companies? They add 180 degrees flippy screens (GF7, E-PL7 and few more from other players) and a selfie mode and call it a day. Yeah, that's not going to work, so that fad probably won't last for too long.

I think M4/3 is on the right track, marketing to people like me who wanted a bit better quality than the average/above-average point-and-shoot gear, but didn't have the resources to get a DSLR, and pros who know how to get results out of M4/3 but are sick of lugging loads of gear with them.

Ultimately, for the average person, the phone camera might be all they ever want or need, but when they blow that iphone photo up on the big screen and say "man, that would have been a great shot if only I had a proper camera.", that's when the marketing department should be all over the soccer moms and college students.

franschhoek wrote:

Your facts are totally right but I am not sure about the point you are trying to make.

A new category was established 6/7 years ago and to legitimise their new thrust Pana/Oly had to invest disproportionately to tap into all user segments and build a credible range, which they did brilliantly. Even if photo makers are struggling as a whole, MFT makers enjoy a relative better run (and gain share in a decreasing market).

However the number of launches is not a measure of profitability and unfortunately we know that MFT is still a loss-making operation which may mortgage its future.

Some enthusiasts on this forum have been grousing about the slow pace of exciting new introductions. Henry addressed that.

You changed the subject. The future of the camera market as a whole is an unknown. Both Olympus and Panasonic seem to be making progress toward profitability.  Both have introduced products that interest buyers.  Like every other camera manufacturer, they have to find new product formulations that will sell in profitable numbers.

trog100 wrote:

he he he.. the bottom line is to stay in business which both Panny and Oly have to do M34 needs a new sensor and soon..

its got very little to do with whether or not the current 16mp one is good enough or not.. it has everything to do with what future camera buyers will spent their money on and it isnt what they consider to be yesterdays technology..

three years (or so) ago i bought into M43 with a panny G3.. back then it was something special.. my current G6 apart from some added feature is still pretty much the same camera.. the sensor technology has stalled and unless this changes the future will not bode well for M43..

as i said.. hopefully what is needed will come about..

trog

Just what limitation is spoiling your experience using m43 gear?

m43 is a very lively format.

Henry Richardson wrote:

I know that 3 years ago when I bought my Olympus E-M5 and a bunch of lenses there were some who expected that Olympus would be gone by now, m4/3 would be pretty much dead. It may still happen, but so far things for us customers are looking pretty good. Here is a list of m4/3 bodies that have come out since I bought my E-M5:

Don't forget Veydra primes

http://www.ducloslenses.com/collections/veydra-primes/products/mini-prime-set

And SLRMagic have released some new ones including a 10mm T2.1

http://www.slrmagic.co.uk

JB

Aren't there some LensBaby items which have been released in that time period?

There are now so many m4/3 lenses it is hard to keep track of them all!

I also seem to remember some cheap novelty lenses, but can't remember who made them ...

Ah, Lomography

http://www.digitalrev.com/product/lomography-experimental-lens-kit/MTEwMzAxMg_A_A

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3153262549/lomography-experimental-lens-kit-for-micro-four-thirds

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4106884553/lensbaby-circular-fisheye-5-8mm-f-3-5-now-available-in-new-mounts