Canon G9: JPG or RAW? Why?

B-rad wrote:

v steffel wrote:

Last week I borrowed a G9 for long term use. I will be taking the camera overseas, so I want to have reasonable mastery and understanding.

I've been shooting for a few days, reading the manual, and searching the DPR Canon PowerShot forum. Gradually, I made setting adjustments, etc. I tried shooting with the RAW and JPG setting. The developed RAWs came out well, but the JPGs were not to my liking. (I will try later).

Those of you with experience with the G9: What is your preferred setting and Why? JPG or RAW.

Thanks in advance for your comments. Since it's winter here in central Ohio I'm a bit limited.

If you look at the reviews of cameras done here by dpreview that shoot both raw and jpeg, the raw slider is always higher than the jpeg, that should tell you something.

Isn't that based on default JPEG settings and don't most good cameras allow you to alter those settings? I don't think that's a fair comparison, do you?

v steffel wrote:

Last week I borrowed a G9 for long term use. I will be taking the camera overseas, so I want to have reasonable mastery and understanding.

I've been shooting for a few days, reading the manual, and searching the DPR Canon PowerShot forum. Gradually, I made setting adjustments, etc. I tried shooting with the RAW and JPG setting. The developed RAWs came out well, but the JPGs were not to my liking. (I will try later).

Those of you with experience with the G9: What is your preferred setting and Why? JPG or RAW.

Thanks in advance for your comments. Since it's winter here in central Ohio I'm a bit limited.

JPEG. Camera set to My Colors, Custom, Sharpness +2, Contrast +2, Saturation +1 (adjust to taste). Exposure set to -1/3EV routinely and -2/3EV in high DR challenges to preserve highlights. Don't really care about shadow details because I generally expose to brighten shadows with AEL anyway but that depends entirely on the scene and what emotion I want to impart on the image.

Getting it right "in-camera" means I have more spare time later instead of correcting my mistakes in PP. Squeezing every last once of shadow detail out of RAW files from a small sensor camera is not the way I want to spend my time, especially when I shoot hundreds of images a week.

If I need more DOF, DR, contrast, color and sharpness, I just reach for my OM-1 and shoot in true RAW, film. Tweaking small sensor RAW files is a nice little hobby if you have nothing better to do. Sure RAW files may have higher quality if you have the skills, software and desire to spend for minor incremental improvements, in practical terms. I shoot digital primarily for the convenience. PP'ing RAW files defeats that purpose.

BTW, I've shot thousands of images with the G9. One of my favorite cameras. Not one in RAW.

https://flic.kr/p/mcAcCu

Jim B (MSP) wrote:

I have not shot a G9. However, I shot a G2 years ago. I started in jpeg, then switched to RAW. I have always shot raw since, and have never looked back. I now shoot a DSLR.

In RAW, you are the artist; not a Japanese software engineer.

That sounds racist.

Who would know better the sensor in a camera and it's characteristics than the software engineer that wrote the JPEG engine?

From the Canon G9 User Manual:

"When pictures are taken as JPEG images, the images are processed inside the camera for optimum image quality"

I wonder what optimum means?

Who says you can't be an artist with the camera's settings?

v steffel wrote:

Skippy,

Thanks for stating why you prefer JPGs with the GP

Thanks for providing your suggested settings in JPG. I will experiment with them.

I look forward to learning much more about photography with the G9.

Thank you but don't get me wrong. I'm not against RAW and there are definite quality gains to be had from the mode but, I think a JPEG gets you 90% of the way there and a few pulls and pushes on the slide bars in Lightroom gets you to the 99% point without too much fuss. Like anything, the law of diminishing returns applies to digital imaging.

I just shot a series with my G15 today, in some difficult high contrast situations and I'm going to play with the JPEGs and RAW files to see what I need to do to get both to look as good as they can. I love to experiment when I have time and it reinforces my conclusions (or refutes them), I'm always open to a better way.

Cheers.

v steffel wrote:

Skippy,

Thanks for stating why you prefer JPGs with the GP

Thanks for providing your suggested settings in JPG. I will experiment with them.

I look forward to learning much more about photography with the G9.

Here's a shot from today. I used RAW+JPEG mode in the Canon G15. I suppose if I shot RAW and then JPEG, I would have a better JPEG because than I would have had some in-camera controls which the Canon G15 doesn't offer in RAW+JPEG (not that I know of, anyway).

Both were tweaked in Lightroom verison 5.7 64-bit. Can you tell which one was from the RAW file?

To be fair, I also have another set where I saw much more detail in some snow that was almost totally blown out in the JPEG file and I couldn't recover it. In this case, it's clear which one came from a RAW file.

In some lighting situations, it is wise to shoot in RAW, for sure. In my examples it seems that just shooting in RAW all the time is needless for optimal image quality and just shooting in JPEG all the time results in lost opportunities to improve an image otherwise ruined by in-camera processing. My conclusion would be that the RAW mode should be viewed as just another setting, like ISO or iContrast. It should be up to the photographer to determine what is the best exposure control based on the lighting and subject at hand. This is what differentiates the novices form the experienced shooters.

To me, it doesn't make sense to cripple yourself by never using a useful camera function, like in-camera JPEG customization. It's another tool for control over your art. To me, it's fun to play with all the buttons.

Cheers.

Wife & I have had 8-9 of this tuff little cam,,we have taken thousands of pics with them,,we still have 2 G9s,

we never got into processing Raw and all our photo are jpeg??we have several 8x10s hanging on the wall and a couple 14x16 i think they are?

shutter lag is the only complant we have,,with in its limits the Canon G9 is one camera they GOT right??

just my 2 cents?

I agree with yooper guy ,,a flash helps alot?? had a 270EXII,,but use & like the 430EX better,,but its BIG on a G9

Ron

Globemstr3 wrote:

Skippy Belmont wrote:

v steffel wrote:

Skippy,

Thanks for stating why you prefer JPGs with the GP

Thanks for providing your suggested settings in JPG. I will experiment with them.

I look forward to learning much more about photography with the G9.

Here's a shot from today. I used RAW+JPEG mode in the Canon G15. I suppose if I shot RAW and then JPEG, I would have a better JPEG because than I would have had some in-camera controls which the Canon G15 doesn't offer in RAW+JPEG (not that I know of, anyway).

Both were tweaked in Lightroom verison 5.7 64-bit. Can you tell which one was from the RAW file?

To be fair, I also have another set where I saw much more detail in some snow that was almost totally blown out in the JPEG file and I couldn't recover it. In this case, it's clear which one came from a RAW file.

In some lighting situations, it is wise to shoot in RAW, for sure. In my examples it seems that just shooting in RAW all the time is needless for optimal image quality and just shooting in JPEG all the time results in lost opportunities to improve an image otherwise ruined by in-camera processing. My conclusion would be that the RAW mode should be viewed as just another setting, like ISO or iContrast. It should be up to the photographer to determine what is the best exposure control based on the lighting and subject at hand. This is what differentiates the novices form the experienced shooters.

So then if theres a chance of lost opportunities why shoot JPG at all? When Im out shooting I dont have the time to Switch from JPG to Raw depending on subject. With the SX50 Raw doesnt allow Digital Zoom. Thats a problem. Its a shame actually. Many folks in here always say turn Digital off. Well for my applications (Birding) I find JPG usefull on for that reason. Lilian Stokes a famous birder who uses the 50 as well suggests full digital zoom and never shoots RAW. Im torn. Raw allows me the flexibility to recover and manipulate a lot of data. The workflow for me is not much different that JPG's. My converted RAW to JPG's are always better than just shooting in JPEG. Again other than losing my Digital Zoom I think ya shoot RAW all the time. Make any sense?

To me, it doesn't make sense to cripple yourself by never using a useful camera function, like in-camera JPEG customization. It's another tool for control over your art. To me, it's fun to play with all the buttons.

I agree with that. But you have to have a workflow and plan. You cant be thinking should I shoot RAW today or JPG cause I dont know what I'm gonna run into.

Maybe I haven't made my point clear, my apologies. You shouldn't go out for a day of shooting with your camera set to either JPEG or RAW. You could make that decision based on the scene, as I do.

Shooting RAW all the time is tedious. It slows most cameras down. Fills up memory cards and takes up disk space. Sure, memory is cheaper now but, it isn't free and storing, moving and backing up thousands of huge files is very time consuming.

It is a personal choice based on your needs and desires. There is the RAW camp and then there is the JPEG camp, about a 50/50 split. Usually, when there isn't an overwhelming consensus either way, it's probably because either way is OK.

Personally, I have compared hundreds of shots in RAW vs. JPEG. Some are better in RAW, some where better in JPEG, depending on the scene and the camera. Some cameras like my X100s shoot so good in JPEG, it's silly to try the better them, same with my RX10. I have made the personal decision to shoot primarily in JPEG and make adjustments as I see fit, in the field. It's all about knowing your skills and your camera. Sometimes I'll go out and shoot in RAW just to have fum playing with the files. Sometimes I just want to shoot and not mess around in post processing. It's a personal choice, there is no better than this or that and even if there was, it's a minor difference. No use losing any sleep over it, I say.

v steffel wrote:

The weather has improved a little. I have been able to photograph some flowers in the yard and some horses exercising at the track where they run the Little Brown Jug each fall.

After reading all the responses and experimenting, I think that Skippy Belmont and GeraldW guided me in the correct direction. I will be shooting in JPG until I run into some problems. Here are two shots:

Crocus in early afternoon sunlight

At the track in the afternoon with an overcast sky

Each photo was cropped and sharpened slightly. The horse photo was minimally post-processed.

Thanks to each of you for taking time to help.

Best,

Nice shots, good detail. You could have gotten the flowers sharper if you used a wider aperture. Small sensor cameras like the G9 suffer from diffraction problems once you get to f/5.6 or smaller (larger f-stop number). At f/8 you are not going to be able to sharpen the image in post processing enough.

Try some experimenting. Put the G9 on a tripod if you have one and shoot a scene with some fine detail in it. Start at the f/2.8 setting and work your way up to f/8 while keeping the ISO the same for each shot (aperture priority mode with manual ISO). Then look at each image closely on your monitor. You will notice the image becoming softer as you decrease the aperture (up in f-stop number). Diffraction for the G9 starts at f/4.0 believe it or not. By f/8, you cannot get a sharp image no matter how hard you try.

The secret to the G9 is to keep the aperture at between f/2.8 and f/4.0 and keep your shutter speed as high as you can. You'll get nice crisp, sharp shots that way. If you have any action in your scene at all (like the horse and driver) you should shoot at least 1/1000 sec. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO up a little to do this. The sharpness you will get will more than offset the slight increase in noise in the image, especially in bright light. Unfortunately, the G9, being a CCD sensor, does not do well at ISO 400 and above. I found that ISO 200 was about the most I wanted to use with the G9 and the sweet spot I found was ISO 125. Again, unfortunately the G9 is not a great camera for capturing motion. For that, a G15 or G16 would be better.

Cheers!