A7II IBIS: your experience ?

Started Jan 22, 2015 | Discussions
NicoG
NicoG Regular Member • Posts: 130
A7II IBIS: your experience ?

I have been playing with an A7II and all sorts of adapted lens from 17mm to 300mm for 3 weeks now.

IBIS efficiency seem to be variable depending on the focal length (which is normal to a certain point):

- not much in wide angle (~1-1.5 stop for 24mm),
- better for tele (~2.5 stop for 135mm),

but whatever the focal length, I find it very hard to have sharp shots below 1/10 s.

The firmware update fixes bug and helped a lot for video and to stabilised the view finder with magnification (definitively remove the high jitter) but I not shure it improves IBIS efficiency when taking pictures.

What is your experience ?

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 40,015
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

NicoG wrote:

I have been playing with an A7II and all sorts of adapted lens from 17mm to 300mm for 3 weeks now.

IBIS efficiency seem to be variable depending on the focal length (which is normal to a certain point):

- not much in wide angle (~1-1.5 stop for 24mm),
- better for tele (~2.5 stop for 135mm),

but whatever the focal length, I find it very hard to have sharp shots below 1/10 s.

I have no experience with your camera, but as the a7II could be in my hands in the future. . .

I'm not the steadiest of shooters (they call me Mr. Coffee), but with m4/3 IBIS 1/10s was about as low as I could reasonably handle (there were exceptions, but not the rule). So I wonder about your innate stability experience, and whether the expectation for a slower shutter is reasonable. I also wonder whether you compared the e-First curtain shutter against silent shooting (I presume those options on my a7s is also on the other a7's).

I look forward to yours and other responses on the matter. Thanks.

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JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 32,138
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?
1

NicoG wrote:

What is your experience ?

With the 55 FE: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=8344

With the Leica 180mm Apo-Telyt: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=8358

On a tripod: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=8391

Jim

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NicoG
OP NicoG Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

Nice thanks a lot! These results represent a lot of work!

Were you holding the camera in your hands ? For a 180mm, a minimum of 1/1000 s to get a sharp shot without IBIS seems pretty fast to me (similarly with the 55 mm). Anyway, your tests clearly show the benefit of IBIS.

Doing the same with a wide angle would close the loop, but it is much less important

What do you think about the ~1/10 s limit ?

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JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 32,138
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

NicoG wrote:

Were you holding the camera in your hands ?

It says which were handheld in the posts. For the Zony 55, yes. For the 180 Apo-Telyt, one post was handheld, one was tripod mounted.

For a 180mm, a minimum of 1/1000 s to get a sharp shot without IBIS seems pretty fast to me (similarly with the 55 mm).

Depends on how critical you are. Ansel Adams used to say 1 / (5 * focal length in mm) for 35mm cameras, which weren't as sharp as modern FF digicams.

Anyway, your tests clearly show the benefit of IBIS.

Doing the same with a wide angle would close the loop, but it is much less important

I think it pretty much scales with focal length, until you run out of sensor travel at long focal lengths.

What do you think about the ~1/10 s limit ?

Only you can decide how sharp is sharp enough for you. Only you can decide how steady you think you are. Only you can tell how much bracing you're doing (if you can't find something to brace the camera against, I recommend the Pete Souza position).

If you lack the equipment, patience, and/or temperament for MTF testing, get a big sheet of newspaper, tape it to your garage door, and make pictures at various shutter speeds.

Jim

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JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 32,138
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

NicoG wrote:

For a 180mm, a minimum of 1/1000 s to get a sharp shot without IBIS seems pretty fast to me (similarly with the 55 mm).

One of the things for you to think about, besides how sharp is sharp enough, is your definition of acceptable odds.

Are you looking for near-certainty of sharpness? (My personal criterion)

Are you looking for  reasonable chance at sharpness?

Are you looking for a series of exposures that probably have one sharp image in them?

Jim

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Keit ll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,864
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

In describing your hand holding technique you refer to 'follow through' - what exactly does that mean ?

JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 32,138
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

Keit ll wrote:

In describing your hand holding technique you refer to 'follow through' - what exactly does that mean ?

Press to the end of the release travel. Don't stop when the shutter fires.

jim

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superchalupa Contributing Member • Posts: 730
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

Were you holding the camera in your hands ? For a 180mm, a minimum of 1/1000 s to get a sharp shot without IBIS seems pretty fast to me (similarly with the 55 mm). Anyway, your tests clearly show the benefit of IBIS.

I've had my A7ii and 70-200mm F4 for almost two weeks now. I shoot my young daughter's indoor hockey practices and games in fairly mediocre lighting @ F4, between 1/250s and 1/320s shutter and AutoISO (generally sits around 2000-3200, I've configured hard max at 6400, which is occasionally hits) and am generally very pleased with the results. The only blur I normally get is motion blur from fast action, not camera shake blur. Most of my images are around 135mm focal length, but a good number are at the 200mm end as well.

I'm just barely at the point where I can be called an amateur, but I've been more than impressed with the sharpness of the images.

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NicoG
OP NicoG Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: A7II IBIS: your experience ?

Keep cool, was just asking! I should have better read your two posts, my bad!

I'm learning and was thinking that I should normally be able to get sharp shot at 1/"focal lens" of a second (to some extent). But I was cheating when I wanted to get near certainity of sharpness.

Thanks to make me realize that this rule should be relaxed and that I'm not that shaky! Your post is also interesting for this aspect, illustrating how MTF drops without IBIS. It is also nice because based on MTF and thus avoiding the need of a categorization of what can be considered to be sharp or less sharp.

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