Help! Humming Bird Hell.......

Help!

So when the weather was warmer, I would sit on my porch for hours with my E-pl1, 135mm f/3.5 Takumar, stopped down to about f/4 with tripod, waiting for the humming bird to show up at my feeder for a National Geographic shot. He never came. Then, one morning I am walking out the front door with my new E-p5 and the old 40-150mm mounted and he shows up! So I take a few quick hand held grab shots, no time for settings and here is what I got:

Cropped

Cropped

Cropped

cropped

I am very disappointed with these-not sharp at all. What is wrong? Shutter speed too slow? ISO too high?

Is this the dreaded e-p5 "shutter shock"-0 sec. anti-shock was not enabled.

Am I expecting too much for a hand held shot?

Camera was set for 8mp and I manually focused but that really shouldn't matter, should it?

Help!

Tedolph

I won't comment on the photos, but will on your feeder/nectar and apparent dearth of traffic to your feeder.

The particular feeder you are using is one that is very popular with the hummers, but you should trash that red nectar.  Nearly all of the store-bought nectar doesn't have high enough sugar content to out-compete your neighbors' feeders.  I make my own with 50% by volume of sugar and water.  Just take a gallon milk jug and fill it half full with cane sugar, then fill with hot water and shake till it all dissolves.  Then store it in the fridge when not being used.  This will trump your neighbors feeders which probably have the recommended 10-20% sugar and get you more traffic.  I usually have at least a half dozen or more hummers hanging around my feeders.

You shutter speed is way too slow.

I took these a couple years ago. It was with the G3, but turned out somewhat nice.

Today, I'll use at least 1/2000th and higher ISO as needed. The E-M10 can handle it.

Martin Ocando wrote:

You shutter speed is way too slow.

I took these a couple years ago. It was with the G3, but turned out somewhat nice.

Today, I'll use at least 1/2000th and higher ISO as needed. The E-M10 can handle it.

But, I have seen other people's Humming Bird photo's where the wings are still a blur (I like that-implies motion) but the bodies are still sharp.  So to get that that would be maybe, what, 1/400 sec. instead of 1/250 sec.?

Tedolph

At 1/250 shutter speed you shouldn't be getting "shutter shock".  They simply look out of focus to me.  The 1st one is the sharpest and it's really rather soft.  I think I'd go back to AF, and select the small setting for the focus point.  Looks as if you are failry close, so DOF is fairly shallow and I think the AF on the camera will hit it faster and more accurately than you can manually...especially hand held.

If you want to stop the wings you will need WAY more shutter speed.  Most folks do this with a strobe rather than high shutter speed.  I think you will need more that  1/2000 th to stop them.

Mine have blurry wings, and they are at 1/800th. The thing is these little creatures are so fast, less than that, and you get motion blur. You want to freeze the bird, and maybe not the wings, so I found that 1/800 to 1/1000th is kind of the sweet spot.

Bobby J wrote:

At 1/250 shutter speed you shouldn't be getting "shutter shock". They simply look out of focus to me. The 1st one is the sharpest and it's really rather soft. I think I'd go back to AF, and select the small setting for the focus point. Looks as if you are failry close, so DOF is fairly shallow

You may be right.

I was at about 10 ft., f/5.2 with 111mm focal length so the DOF was only maybe 4"-enough to get the whole bird in but just.  I focused on the "flower" closest to the bird and just assumed that he was at the same distance.  But that should have worked, right?

Anyway, even the "flower" on the feeder is soft.

The whole thing is soft.

Something is wrong.

and I think the AF on the camera will hit it faster and more accurately than you can manually...especially hand held.

Maybe you are right.

Maybe I blew the focus on the flower!

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BJM

Tedolph

Martin Ocando wrote:

Mine have blurry wings, and they are at 1/800th. The thing is these little creatures are so fast, less than that, and you get motion blur. You want to freeze the bird, and maybe not the wings, so I found that 1/800 to 1/1000th is kind of the sweet spot.

OK, got it.

But if I am going to use 1/800, 1/1000, etc. then I am in strobe land-which is the old fashioned way!

Maybe that is what I should try.  Just do it the old fashioned way with a strobe set up.

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Martin Ocando
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Tedolph

Since you're only shooting at 8mp, this might interest you.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54209158

Easy way to cheat to get hummingbirds images.

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

It paused and backed up from feeding upon hearing the shutter. After a few times it pretty much ignores the sound. Note the specs: 1/1250s, f/6.7, ISO 1600 - with the 75-300 at 300mm (600mm FOV matters)

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

ace106 wrote:

Since you're only shooting at 8mp, this might interest you.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54209158

Now that is more like it!

Guess I will be trading in the E-p5 for an FZ-1000

Easy way to cheat to get hummingbirds images.

Tedolph

Bob Tullis wrote:

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

these are very nice, and your shutter speed is certainly a lot higher than mine, so I presume that you used flash on these?

Thanks

Tedolph

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

these are very nice, and your shutter speed is certainly a lot higher than mine, so I presume that you used flash on these?

No, this is natural lighting, unaided.   Why do you presume a flash had to be involved for a high shutter?   If it's about the wings, these aren't frozen -  just fortunate timing along with the SS.   I shoot rapid fire so's to allow captures with the wings spread back (for better visibility of the body/head).

Bob Tullis wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

these are very nice, and your shutter speed is certainly a lot higher than mine, so I presume that you used flash on these?

No, this is natural lighting, unaided. Why do you presume a flash had to be involved for a high shutter?

You're right, that made no sense unless your EM-1 has a leaf shutter.

Damn, it must have been a sunny day!

If it's about the wings, these aren't frozen - just fortunate timing along with the SS. I shoot rapid fire so's to allow captures with the wings spread back (for better visibility of the body/head).

Ah, good idea.

I was shooting sequential (I think?), but only 4 fps.

It all happened very fast and I really didn't have time to set up.

So, you think my shots are fuzzy just because of low shutter speed? Or hand held?  Or both?

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...Bob, NYC
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
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Tedolph

Only the position of the wings during the flash shows up. The flash is crazy fast. Much faster than the wings. The shutter being open after the flash doesn't matter since the bird motion is now unlit and too dark to register.

I think this was just the T5i's on board flash.  1 to 3, sugar water mix.

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

these are very nice, and your shutter speed is certainly a lot higher than mine, so I presume that you used flash on these?

No, this is natural lighting, unaided. Why do you presume a flash had to be involved for a high shutter?

You're right, that made no sense unless your EM-1 has a leaf shutter.

Damn, it must have been a sunny day!

If it's about the wings, these aren't frozen - just fortunate timing along with the SS. I shoot rapid fire so's to allow captures with the wings spread back (for better visibility of the body/head).

Ah, good idea.

I was shooting sequential (I think?), but only 4 fps.

It all happened very fast and I really didn't have time to set up.

So, you think my shots are fuzzy just because of low shutter speed? Or hand held? Or both?

No prep resulted in low shutter and having to hand-hold. Bingo [spittoon ping!]

I've tried it with less determination like you, which lead to having to use more determination for the quality desired (I'm not that steady with longer focal lengths). For other feeder birds in order to follow that action I need at least a monopod, if not set on a tripod while using a loose ball head.

4 FPS is enough, though a lot of this is timing and serendipity. Sometimes it takes many visits of the subject to get things just right (sometimes that means trying again on another day).   A GOOD session for me has about 5-10 keepers in a series of 100 exposures.   Maybe if I pursued this subject more often I'd have a better ratio, but. . . there you go.

Mid telephoto, the sun shining on the bird, a garden full of red flowers and you're good to go.  Don't get a feeder in the pic, that's no good.

Rufous

You can also do a two or three flash setup with a one hole feeder and freeze the wings for a different look.  You're always balancing the background illumination/ISO with freezing the wings...

2 flash plus popup

Bob Tullis wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I stage the shot, prefocus in the area in front of the feeder, and block the other 3 ports on the feeder to force the hummer where I want it. When it arrives I lean on the shutter button, so as it hovers in and out of the field of focus I have 1/2 a chance. I've used wireless flash (when it was working), but mainly wait for good light.

Cropping ends up being significant to isolate it from the cheap plastic feeder.

This was also a significant crop:

these are very nice, and your shutter speed is certainly a lot higher than mine, so I presume that you used flash on these?

No, this is natural lighting, unaided. Why do you presume a flash had to be involved for a high shutter?

You're right, that made no sense unless your EM-1 has a leaf shutter.

Damn, it must have been a sunny day!

If it's about the wings, these aren't frozen - just fortunate timing along with the SS. I shoot rapid fire so's to allow captures with the wings spread back (for better visibility of the body/head).

Ah, good idea.

I was shooting sequential (I think?), but only 4 fps.

It all happened very fast and I really didn't have time to set up.

So, you think my shots are fuzzy just because of low shutter speed? Or hand held? Or both?

No prep resulted in low shutter and having to hand-hold. Bingo [spittoon ping!]

I've tried it with less determination like you, which lead to having to use more determination for the quality desired (I'm not that steady with longer focal lengths). For other feeder birds in order to follow that action I need at least a monopod, if not set on a tripod while using a loose ball head.

4 FPS is enough, though a lot of this is timing and serendipity. Sometimes it takes many visits of the subject to get things just right (sometimes that means trying again on another day). A GOOD session for me has about 5-10 keepers in a series of 100 exposures. Maybe if I pursued this subject more often I'd have a better ratio, but. . . there you go.

That is very helpful, thanks.

Now I have to see if somehow I can get this thread put back in the m4/3 forum!

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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man

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Tedolph,

Eternally Damned

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

Mid telephoto, the sun shining on the bird, a garden full of red flowers and you're good to go. Don't get a feeder in the pic, that's no good.

Rufous

You can also do a two or three flash setup with a one hole feeder and freeze the wings for a different look. You're always balancing the background illumination/ISO with freezing the wings...

2 flash plus popup

Damn, those are good.

How did you get the background so deliciously dark on the first one?

Using flash there too? You must be!

And if so, how did you keep the motion in the wings-drag the shutter?

Tedolph