E-M5 sometimes annoys, maybe get an E-M10?

sderdiarian wrote:

Interested in your thoughts on the 10 compared to the 5 now that you've used it for a bit, Henry. Handling, button arrangement, shutter shock solution, focus peaking, 3-axis IBIS, WiFi, etc. When you have a moment maybe you can catch those of us considering the same move up.

Steve, I will do. I have been making notes for the last week so I will try to post something later today (I am in Okinawa, Japan at the moment). I fly to Sapporo for a week for the Yuki Matsuri (Snow Festival) tomorrow morning so I want to post something before I leave.

My notes are mostly ergonomics and other stuff that are not mentioned in any of the reviews I have read. For some they may seem like small points, but they add up and many of them fix things that were very annoying about the E-M5.

Henry Richardson wrote:

The E-M10 also fixes several of the things I hate about my E-M5 and now it can be bought new for less than $500 here in Japan. From what I can recall these are the pluses and minuses compared to the E-M5:

Pluses:

• 0 second anti-shock setting
• MySets can be assigned to mode dial
• built-in flash (for a quick pop of outdoor fill flash)
• slightly smaller with a lower EVF housing for a more sleek, smoother top
• rear buttons have better feel and are slightly larger
• buttons just above the LCD are better placed and easier to press
• higher resolution rear LCD

Minuses:

• 3-axis IBIS
• smaller battery with less capacity and a different charger
• not weather sealed

After using my E-M5 for the last 33 months I have now had an E-M10 for a week. After using it I am quite happy with it. It really does come across as a more refined E-M5 with many of the annoying things fixed or modified. It seems to be just as well made and sturdy as my E-M5. I use my left eye to the EVF and these days wear eyeglasses so keep that in mind with regards to some of my comments regarding ergonomics.

• Front and rear control wheels are a bit higher which makes them easier to get at.
• Front control wheel is a bit more forward and that makes it easier to use especially with the ECG-1 grip installed.
• Rear buttons are larger.
• Shutter button is larger.
• Buttons have much better tactile feel. The E-M5 buttons are mushy and sometimes you have to press them more than once to get them to work.
• The Fn1 and Play buttons are much easier to access and press. The thick E-M5 LCD and the location of those buttons made them very poor.
• EVF hump is not as tall and the hotshoe doesn't stick out much. The E-M5 hotshoe sticks out and has sharper edges. It would sometimes get caught on my clothes when I was quickly trying to get a shot.
• Built-in flash so don't have the tiny accessory E-M5 flash that resulted in 3 small plastic parts to take off, juggle, and keep track of in order to use. Also, very slow to get it installed or uninstalled because of all the parts. It would seem to me that the Olympus engineer who came up with that monstrosity did it while sitting in a quiet office, in a chair, with the camera on his desk. He obviously never tried to actually use it while standing on the street in a hot, humid, crowded, windy, raining place such as Saigon and trying to get the flash out of a pocket or camera bag and installed while also trying to not drop other things, keep your hat from flying off in the wind, not get jostled by people, and so on.
• Shutter sound is even quieter than the already quiet E-M5. I am using the 0-second AS setting so I don't know if that has something to do with it.
• With the better E-M10 control wheel positions (higher than the E-M5) the ECG-1 grip improves things a lot. Only cost $44. I had tried the HLD-6 grip that costs $300 on the E-M5 in 2012 and didn't like it. The top part was all I was interested in, but with the lower E-M5 control wheels, the front control wheel a bit further back, and the design of the HLD-6 I found that it was hard for my index finger to get at the rear control wheel while using the grip. I have to use my index finger instead of my thumb because I use my left eye and the E-M5 is so cramped up on that side. Never had to do that with any SLRs/DSLRs over the years. With the E-M10 and ECG-1 though there are no problems.
• Eyecup is slightly better shaped to keep extraneous light out.
• The tripod socket is centered under the lens, but the E-M5 is offset. I don't care about this, but some people prefer a centered tripod socket.
• The E-M10 BLS-5 battery charger is a bit smaller than the E-M5 BLN-1 charger. Also, the cord that came with my E-M10 charger is 1/3 the length of the long E-M5 cord. I am happy about this. I always carry an extension cord with 3 outlets on it when I travel so I don't need nor want a long, unwieldy charger cord. The E-M10 cord is shorter and less to deal with.
• My 3rd party batteries use the Olympus BLS-5 charger, but the 3rd party batteries for my E-M5 needed their own, separate charger. Very happy about this!
• From all that I have read the only difference between the E-M10 3-axis IBIS and the E-M5 5-axis IBIS is that for close-ups the 5-axis is a bit better. In my use of the E-M10 so far it seems to be just as effective as the E-M5. For handheld close-ups and macros then the E-M5, I suppose, is a bit better if you are using slow shutter speeds. I don't take many handheld close-ups using slow shutter speeds so this seems like a total non-issue to me.
• The E-M10 has the new, faster, more powerful TruePic VII processor and the E-M5 has the older TruePic VI processor. I don't know how that relates to performance aspects of the E-M10, but a faster, more powerful processor is almost always better.
• The E-M10 is not rated as weather-sealed, but the E-M5 is. My thoughts about weather-sealing after 40+ years of using SLRs/DSLRs is that I have never had any weather related problems with any of my cameras so this isn't a big deal to me. The E-M5 was the first I have ever owned that claims to be weather-sealed. None of my lenses are though. My experience is that in most cases having weather-sealed cameras and lenses are not of much use for my photography anyway because the biggest problem with shooting in the rain is keeping the front element clean. I use a lens hood and UV filter, but unless there is no wind and you keep the lens always pointed downward you are still often going to get drops on the front of the lens. So, if you only shoot in the rain when there is no wind and you only point the camera downward then weather-sealing may be very helpful. When in the rain I just make a reasonable attempt to keep the camera and lens dry, but don't get anal retentive about it. When water gets on it then I try to wipe it off as soon as I can. Same for the front filter. Never had any problem. I do realize that some people on the forum feel that if they ever take the camera out of their living room then everything needs to be weather-sealed, just in case.
• The E-M10 wake-up from sleep mode seems a bit faster than the E-M5. See my earlier post:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55179201

To sum up, I am quite happy with the E-M10 at my cost of $480 for a new one. Everyone else must make their own calculations based on what they like and dislike and the price where you are.

I arrived in cold Sapporo yesterday for the annual Yuki Matsuri (Snow Festival) and for a walk around last night I decided to attach the ECG-1 grip. I was wearing thin gloves and it gave me a much more secure hold on the camera.

You are welcome. Been using the E-M10 quite a lot the last few days. Welcome improvements and refinements.

Here is another excellent list of E-M10 changes:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55254953

The answer today would be to get the EM5 II

If money is not an issue

It really surpasses the EM5 in almost if not all categories and the EM10 as well, except perhaps size and value

Cheers,

I looked at the E-M5 II and rejected it for multiple reasons:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55113827

This has been a vary profitable thread for me.

My college is taking back the EM5 I have been using for the last 3 years (along with the 75-300 and 9-18). I have been debating getting either another EM5 or else the 10 (and I agree, no Pany with Japanese menus only. I shot the GF1 and the sony NEX 3, and they were alright, but I feel much better being able to get everything out of the firmware, not just the easy stuff).

I now think I will go with the EM10; it is cheaper, smaller, more refined, and it comes with the pancake zoom, which I will slap on my PM2. Might even get the cheaper grip, since I shoot a lot of sports.

sderdiarian wrote:

A new 20MP sensor, 4K video and vastly improved tracking ability (the a6000, V3 and GH4 all accomplish this, why not Olympus?) would have transformed the 5. As it stands, I'll be surprised if they sell many before discounting sets in, so why wait when the 10 is already such a great deal?

It certainly seems that the E-M10 is the E-M5v2's most dangerous competitor, given the price difference and all the recent E-M10 versus E-M5 advice being exchanged round here.

sderdiarian wrote:

Henry, just read your very thorough comparison of the E-M10 and E-M5, much appreciated. Sounds like a step up in almost all performance and handling respects that matter to me. Also worth it to banish shutter shock from raising its ugly head, and the restrictions this places on shutter speed, once and for all. Have a wonderful time on your trip and hope to see some photos upon your return!

You are welcome.  Glad it was some help.

Check out the albums here:

http://www.bakubo.com/Galleries%202/Japan/index.html

2 or 3 of the albums nearer the bottom with the name Sapporo have the photos.

Henry Richardson wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

The E-M10 also fixes several of the things I hate about my E-M5 and now it can be bought new for less than $500 here in Japan. From what I can recall these are the pluses and minuses compared to the E-M5:

Pluses:

• 0 second anti-shock setting
• MySets can be assigned to mode dial
• built-in flash (for a quick pop of outdoor fill flash)
• slightly smaller with a lower EVF housing for a more sleek, smoother top
• rear buttons have better feel and are slightly larger
• buttons just above the LCD are better placed and easier to press
• higher resolution rear LCD

Minuses:

• 3-axis IBIS
• smaller battery with less capacity and a different charger
• not weather sealed

After using my E-M5 for the last 33 months I have now had an E-M10 for a week. After using it I am quite happy with it. It really does come across as a more refined E-M5 with many of the annoying things fixed or modified. It seems to be just as well made and sturdy as my E-M5. I use my left eye to the EVF and these days wear eyeglasses so keep that in mind with regards to some of my comments regarding ergonomics.

• Front and rear control wheels are a bit higher which makes them easier to get at.
• Front control wheel is a bit more forward and that makes it easier to use especially with the ECG-1 grip installed.
• Rear buttons are larger.
• Shutter button is larger.
• Buttons have much better tactile feel. The E-M5 buttons are mushy and sometimes you have to press them more than once to get them to work.
• The Fn1 and Play buttons are much easier to access and press. The thick E-M5 LCD and the location of those buttons made them very poor.
• EVF hump is not as tall and the hotshoe doesn't stick out much. The E-M5 hotshoe sticks out and has sharper edges. It would sometimes get caught on my clothes when I was quickly trying to get a shot.
• Built-in flash so don't have the tiny accessory E-M5 flash that resulted in 3 small plastic parts to take off, juggle, and keep track of in order to use. Also, very slow to get it installed or uninstalled because of all the parts. It would seem to me that the Olympus engineer who came up with that monstrosity did it while sitting in a quiet office, in a chair, with the camera on his desk. He obviously never tried to actually use it while standing on the street in a hot, humid, crowded, windy, raining place such as Saigon and trying to get the flash out of a pocket or camera bag and installed while also trying to not drop other things, keep your hat from flying off in the wind, not get jostled by people, and so on.
• Shutter sound is even quieter than the already quiet E-M5. I am using the 0-second AS setting so I don't know if that has something to do with it.
• With the better E-M10 control wheel positions (higher than the E-M5) the ECG-1 grip improves things a lot. Only cost $44. I had tried the HLD-6 grip that costs $300 on the E-M5 in 2012 and didn't like it. The top part was all I was interested in, but with the lower E-M5 control wheels, the front control wheel a bit further back, and the design of the HLD-6 I found that it was hard for my index finger to get at the rear control wheel while using the grip. I have to use my index finger instead of my thumb because I use my left eye and the E-M5 is so cramped up on that side. Never had to do that with any SLRs/DSLRs over the years. With the E-M10 and ECG-1 though there are no problems.
• Eyecup is slightly better shaped to keep extraneous light out.
• The tripod socket is centered under the lens, but the E-M5 is offset. I don't care about this, but some people prefer a centered tripod socket.
• The E-M10 BLS-5 battery charger is a bit smaller than the E-M5 BLN-1 charger. Also, the cord that came with my E-M10 charger is 1/3 the length of the long E-M5 cord. I am happy about this. I always carry an extension cord with 3 outlets on it when I travel so I don't need nor want a long, unwieldy charger cord. The E-M10 cord is shorter and less to deal with.
• My 3rd party batteries use the Olympus BLS-5 charger, but the 3rd party batteries for my E-M5 needed their own, separate charger. Very happy about this!
• From all that I have read the only difference between the E-M10 3-axis IBIS and the E-M5 5-axis IBIS is that for close-ups the 5-axis is a bit better. In my use of the E-M10 so far it seems to be just as effective as the E-M5. For handheld close-ups and macros then the E-M5, I suppose, is a bit better if you are using slow shutter speeds. I don't take many handheld close-ups using slow shutter speeds so this seems like a total non-issue to me.
• The E-M10 has the new, faster, more powerful TruePic VII processor and the E-M5 has the older TruePic VI processor. I don't know how that relates to performance aspects of the E-M10, but a faster, more powerful processor is almost always better.
• The E-M10 is not rated as weather-sealed, but the E-M5 is. My thoughts about weather-sealing after 40+ years of using SLRs/DSLRs is that I have never had any weather related problems with any of my cameras so this isn't a big deal to me. The E-M5 was the first I have ever owned that claims to be weather-sealed. None of my lenses are though. My experience is that in most cases having weather-sealed cameras and lenses are not of much use for my photography anyway because the biggest problem with shooting in the rain is keeping the front element clean. I use a lens hood and UV filter, but unless there is no wind and you keep the lens always pointed downward you are still often going to get drops on the front of the lens. So, if you only shoot in the rain when there is no wind and you only point the camera downward then weather-sealing may be very helpful. When in the rain I just make a reasonable attempt to keep the camera and lens dry, but don't get anal retentive about it. When water gets on it then I try to wipe it off as soon as I can. Same for the front filter. Never had any problem. I do realize that some people on the forum feel that if they ever take the camera out of their living room then everything needs to be weather-sealed, just in case.
• The E-M10 wake-up from sleep mode seems a bit faster than the E-M5. See my earlier post:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55179201

To sum up, I am quite happy with the E-M10 at my cost of $480 for a new one. Everyone else must make their own calculations based on what they like and dislike and the price where you are.

I used my E-M10 today for the first time in years.  I bought it in January 2015 and then bought an E-M10II in September.  Since then the E-M10 has just been carried on trips as a backup to the E-M10II.  I went out with it today and I remember how much I liked it.  Of course, I like the E-M10II even more, but this E-M10 was in almost every way an upgrade to my E-M5.  Olympus improved several ergonomic issues, added the ability to assign 4 MySets to the mode dial, added the 0-second anti-shock shutter setting, etc.  Still a very nice camera!

I think the E-M10 mark II with the new firmware presents the best bang for the buck nowadays. I see it going for 900 Euro's at some grey import sites. But even at 1100 Euro it seems a bargain when comparing it to the new EM-5 and the Pana G90. Only the G9 is a great competitor,.

Lucas1964 wrote:

I think the E-M10 mark II with the new firmware presents the best bang for the buck nowadays. I see it going for 900 Euro's at some grey import sites. But even at 1100 Euro it seems a bargain when comparing it to the new EM-5 and the Pana G90. Only the G9 is a great competitor,.

1100 euros for the E-M10II?  That is 132,000 yen or US$1216.  That is body only?  On the first day it came out here in Japan in September 2015 I walked into a Bic Camera and was able to get a great deal talking with the Olympus rep.  I was able to get the E-M10II + 14-42mm EZ + ECG-3 grip for about US$550.  Now, that was a fantastic deal and almost half of the regular price.  Lucky timing on my part.

I haven't checked the current prices here in Japan and I doubt if the E-M10II is even still sold new.  I haven't seen it at the stores for a very long time.  Just the E-M10III.  Of course, it can be bought used though.