CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!

Started Dec 21, 2014 | Discussions
Mateus1 Contributing Member • Posts: 946
CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
10

There is a guy on Polish Nikon forum (his nick is TOP67) who compared two D750 cameras - one that causes the "flare", second that does not cause it. He deeply examined both cameras to find out why only one caused the "flare", and he has PROBABLY FOUND THE REASON!

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=37

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=40

I put this info first in thread "Any statement from Nikon about D750 flare issue?" but I think it needs a new thread because of the big debate about this issue on the forum.

Nikon D750
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Redchicken New Member • Posts: 10
Re: CAUSE of the D750 ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!

And what was the DSLR that this guy compared with D750?

We need to check wether this phenomenon is really absent in that particular DSLR.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54962046

As you can see in my post, the phenomenon is seen is D810, D800, D610, 5DmarkII, and D700.

Rick_Hunter Senior Member • Posts: 1,021
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
3

Maybe linking his video will make things clearer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmIFdsSrBx0

This would also explain why some cameras easily show the issue while some others (like mine) don't show it at all.

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Rick_Hunter Senior Member • Posts: 1,021
Re: CAUSE of the D750 ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
2

Redchicken wrote:

And what was the DSLR that this guy compared with D750?

We need to check wether this phenomenon is really absent in that particular DSLR.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54962046

As you can see in my post, the phenomenon is seen is D810, D800, D610, 5DmarkII, and D700.

He's comparing TWO D750's... As you can clearly see in the video, the D750 that shows the flare issue has the AF module mounted higher up than the other D750 (which does not show the flare issue)

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ImageAmateur Veteran Member • Posts: 5,067
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare now THIS is worthwhile and good to know thx

Mateus1 wrote:

Thanks for sharing this, know what to look for now, thank you!

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Wishing You Good Light.

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 16,030
Next question: how will Nikon address the issue

Now that somebody has diagnosed the problem for them

My bet is on a service advisory within a month. Nikon just can't afford further damage to its reputation. It would be the nail in the coffin.

On the other hand this could be a golden opportunity to give the signal that they are now intent to properly address any QC issue. A lot of good can come up from this.

BTW thanks for sharing the link with us.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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David Pichevin Senior Member • Posts: 2,044
Re: Next question: how will Nikon address the issue

TOF guy wrote:

Now that somebody has diagnosed the problem for them

My bet is on a service advisory within a month. Nikon just can't afford further damage to its reputation. It would be the nail in the coffin.

On the other hand this could be a golden opportunity to give the signal that they are now intent to properly address any QC issue. A lot of good can come up from this.

BTW thanks for sharing the link with us.

It would be perfect. Personally, I am very picky, and this D750 seems to tick all the boxes for me. I'm even getting perfect focus with my 50mm, which is rare. Exchanging a camera with no assurance of a fix is a potential for trading one issue for another, or more. It would be good to know that we don't have to play the return game and put the responsibility on the retailer, and instead can have our cameras fixed when a defect exists. On the other hand, if they don't make an announcement and the return window closes...it becomes iffy.

bocajrs
bocajrs Senior Member • Posts: 2,504
Re: Next question: how will Nikon address the issue

Great find...funny cause my d750 is at Melville for dead pixel on lcd...didn't feel like play return/exchange since it's on with all my lenses..wonder if I should call them on Monday and have them af module position?

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ImageAmateur Veteran Member • Posts: 5,067
Re: Next question: how will Nikon address the issue

TOF guy wrote:

Now that somebody has diagnosed the problem for them

My bet is on a service advisory within a month. Nikon just can't afford further damage to its reputation. It would be the nail in the coffin.

On the other hand this could be a golden opportunity to give the signal that they are now intent to properly address any QC issue. A lot of good can come up from this.

BTW thanks for sharing the link with us.

I would prefer a D750s with the 'D810 style shutter.... cause I don't have one yet..

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 16,030
Re: Next question: how will Nikon address the issue

David wrote:

. On the other hand, if they don't make an announcement and the return window closes...it becomes iffy.

It would also adversely affect the camera resale value. Improper handling of this kind of problems hurt customers in more ways than the potential impact on pictures.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 16,030
Re: Next question: how will Nikon address the issue
1

ImageAmateur wrote:

I would prefer a D750s with the 'D810 style shutter.... cause I don't have one yet..

My main reason for switching from D800e to D810, as well as to pick a D810 over a D750, is the shutter. Even better, a camera with a quiet mode (actually two quiet modes, but one of them is the useless implementation found in the D800/D800e) which really works. 

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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Timur Born
Timur Born Veteran Member • Posts: 4,971
Re: CAUSE of the D750 ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
1

Rick_Hunter wrote:

Redchicken wrote:

And what was the DSLR that this guy compared with D750?

We need to check wether this phenomenon is really absent in that particular DSLR.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54962046

As you can see in my post, the phenomenon is seen is D810, D800, D610, 5DmarkII, and D700.

He's comparing TWO D750's... As you can clearly see in the video, the D750 that shows the flare issue has the AF module mounted higher up than the other D750 (which does not show the flare issue)

What is the flare issue discussed then? The AF sensor can be a source for additional reflections, but it is *not* the source of the flare being blocked towards the very edge of the image.

Here, the *brighter* part is a reflection from the AF sensor, but the rest is a normal reflection from the mirror box walls and the edge is blocked a good part away from the AF sensor reflection.

Here the light shines from the other direction towards the mirror box top where no AF sensor is present at all. Normal reflections from the mirror box wall and again the edge being blocked.

My AF sensor doesn't seem to protrude high into the mirror box.

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michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 15,011
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
9

Mateus1 wrote:

There is a guy on Polish Nikon forum (his nick is TOP67) who compared two D750 cameras - one that causes the "flare", second that does not cause it. He deeply examined both cameras to find out why only one caused the "flare", and he has PROBABLY FOUND THE REASON!

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=37

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=40

I put this info first in thread "Any statement from Nikon about D750 flare issue?" but I think it needs a new thread because of the big debate about this issue on the forum.

I understand the excitement by many over the discovery of the possible cause.  However, you're jumping the gun by concluding the cause of the issue is "found".

Yes, I agree...  he has found a difference in the mirror box assembly.  And yes, I agree, this may indeed be the source of the problem.

But he has not proven that this IS the cause.  You won't know that until you take a camera with the problem AND the mirror box construction anomaly and fix it...  then show that the reflection issue is gone.

Or strengthen the case by examining a lot more photos of mirror boxes with and without the reflection issue.

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Mike Dawson

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James Bligh Senior Member • Posts: 2,369
A little more accuracy in the meaning of the sentence requested.

Mateus1 wrote:

There is a guy on Polish Nikon forum (his nick is TOP67) who compared two D750 cameras - one that causes the "flare", second that does not cause it. He deeply examined both cameras to find out why only one caused the "flare", and he has PROBABLY FOUND THE REASON!

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=37

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=40

I put this info first in thread "Any statement from Nikon about D750 flare issue?" but I think it needs a new thread because of the big debate about this issue on the forum.

The sentence 'in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.' is a little bit unclear and seems to be opposite of what photos show.

And I find seeing the video in the second link AF module in good body looks deep seated in bottom plane of mirror box while AF module in bad body looks somewhat protruded from the bottom plane of mirror box. Is this what you have meant by the above sentence?

Anyway we have long suspected the AF module as the culprit of internal reflection in D750 and it may be proving to be right.

P.S.: I think this is a great discovery but it needs further confirmations to verify the misplaced AF module is real cause of the problem. And if it is the cause I don't understand why Nikon is silent about this issue, Nikon should have recalled the afflicted cameras and repaired them.

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Julian MR New Member • Posts: 18
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!

Hi all! This issue is, without any doubt, very important. In my case I'll buy a D750 in the next days but, I'll like to know in advance if the camera that I'll hold has the issue or not. I would like to get a few steps to follow to determine whether the camera has the problem or not.

Thanks!

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Nikon D750
Matsu Senior Member • Posts: 2,388
great find
5

I think the the D750 is a very nicely rounded camera, but at least on some shipped units it exhibits irregular internal reflections to a much greater degree than other cameras.  Now we see a good explanation/test that appears to show why, and hopefully Nikon will have learned from past experience, issue a statement, and repair/adjust the effected units.  It really is the only way to handle product support in the internet age.  News travels fast, bad press hurts brands, repeated bad press increases the damage exponentially.  I would insist on testing the camera in store, or wouldn't buy, period.

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breivogel Senior Member • Posts: 2,403
An experiment to try...
2

Someone should cover their D750 Af sensor with some matte black tape and see if it has any effect on this issue. You should be able to see any effect in live view.

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greenpoe Regular Member • Posts: 163
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!

michaeladawson wrote:

Mateus1 wrote:

There is a guy on Polish Nikon forum (his nick is TOP67) who compared two D750 cameras - one that causes the "flare", second that does not cause it. He deeply examined both cameras to find out why only one caused the "flare", and he has PROBABLY FOUND THE REASON!

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=37

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=40

I put this info first in thread "Any statement from Nikon about D750 flare issue?" but I think it needs a new thread because of the big debate about this issue on the forum.

I understand the excitement by many over the discovery of the possible cause. However, you're jumping the gun by concluding the cause of the issue is "found".

Yes, I agree... he has found a difference in the mirror box assembly. And yes, I agree, this may indeed be the source of the problem.

But he has not proven that this IS the cause. You won't know that until you take a camera with the problem AND the mirror box construction anomaly and fix it... then show that the reflection issue is gone.

Or strengthen the case by examining a lot more photos of mirror boxes with and without the reflection issue.

This is what I was trying to say in the other thread. The cause and effect has not yet been completely explained.  I am not saying there is no problem.  We may have more evidence but it's still incomplete.

And now there seems be two issues, not one, that may or may not be related? I demonstrated for myself the issue that looks like the D810 photos that I've been told is not the issue.  The issue with the "glare", shown by from (coincidentally??) Spanish speaking countries, I could not reproduce.  I must have a "good" or "OK" camera.

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TylerQ
TylerQ Contributing Member • Posts: 508
Re: CAUSE of the D750 "Flare" ISSUE FOUND OUT !!!!!!!
2

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

Really? Wouldn't that make all of the bodies exhibiting this so called flare produce horribly out of focus images given that the sensor is closer to the lens mount?

davikabo Regular Member • Posts: 191
Re: A little more accuracy in the meaning of the sentence requested.
1

Mateus1 wrote:

There is a guy on Polish Nikon forum (his nick is TOP67) who compared two D750 cameras - one that causes the "flare", second that does not cause it. He deeply examined both cameras to find out why only one caused the "flare", and he has PROBABLY FOUND THE REASON!

It's construction issue - in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=37

http://forum.nikoniarze.pl/showthread.php?t=256274&page=40

I put this info first in thread "Any statement from Nikon about D750 flare issue?" but I think it needs a new thread because of the big debate about this issue on the forum.

The sentence 'in the "good" body AF sensor is mounted a little bit further (deeper) compared to "bad" body where the AF sensor is mounted nearer the lens mount.' is a little bit unclear and seems to be opposite of what photos show.

And I find seeing the video in the second link AF module in good body looks deep seated in bottom plane of mirror box while AF module in bad body looks somewhat protruded from the bottom plane of mirror box. Is this what you have meant by the above sentence?

Anyway we have long suspected the AF module as the culprit of internal reflection in D750 and it may be proving to be right.

P.S.: I think this is a great discovery but it needs further confirmations to verify the misplaced AF module is real cause of the problem. And if it is the cause I don't understand why Nikon is silent about this issue, Nikon should have recalled the afflicted cameras and repaired them.

If it is the AF module that is the culprit, I'll take it! Not only does the D750 have incredible AF capabilities in low light, it is extremely sharp, fast and accurate in all lighting conditions. Although the second night after I received my D750, after tirelessly trying to reproduce this "fault" using my kitchen ceiling lighting fixture, it's just too time consuming and tiresome to repeat. I tried again this afternoon in my kitchen with a bit more ambient light, but again failed to create this scenario.

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