E-PM1 vs E-PM2

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

Thanks!

(Sorry for double post but I wasn't sure where this belonged)

crcostel wrote:

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

Thanks!

(Sorry for double post but I wasn't sure where this belonged)

Yes, $150 is a good deal, largely because the lens is worth about that so the body is basically free. And it's a fine and well made lens. It would allow you to upgrade to a newer body as a body only deal in the future.

If you're disappointed at the [i.e. your] picture quality at 8X10, getting a different camera probably won't help much. With 12 mp you can print whatever size you want.

There's a gallery of EPM1 shots in their review at imagingresource.com, and some references to how much they liked the EPM1 in their new EPL7 review.

The biggest difference between the EPM1 and 2 is that the 1 is fine to ISO 800 and then drops steeply while the 2 is good to 1600 and the drops more linearly. That said, I still get acceptable results at 1600 on my EPM1, and it's a different world from what you are currently using.

You're not going wrong either way.

I'll speak up for the E-PM1. I have both, but I have two E-PM1s! It was my introduction into micro-four thirds.

No question about it, the E-PM2 is a better camera in many ways. But that doesn't make the E-PM1 a "bad" camera. I like the very simple design. If you put the Panasonic 14mm/f2.5 lens on it, it's quite compact.

I don't think you'd be disappointed by a print of that size if it's properly exposed.

Allan Brown wrote:

crcostel wrote:

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

Thanks!

(Sorry for double post but I wasn't sure where this belonged)

I have the EPM1 and the EPL5 which is much about the same as the EPM2.

While the EPM2 will give better results, for the price, the EPM1 is a better buy. After all, it is essentially the same as the highly regarded EPL3.

I still use mine and. as other have said, under ISO800, it is fine.

Have a look at this thread about the GF1 which is, sensor wise, a Panasonic version of the EPM1.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3770988

Allan

The GF3 seems to be about the same size and is running $200 with lens refurbished. Would that be closer to a EPM2 in quality?

Tony8232 wrote:

crcostel wrote:

Allan Brown wrote:

crcostel wrote:

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

Thanks!

(Sorry for double post but I wasn't sure where this belonged)

I have the EPM1 and the EPL5 which is much about the same as the EPM2.

While the EPM2 will give better results, for the price, the EPM1 is a better buy. After all, it is essentially the same as the highly regarded EPL3.

I still use mine and. as other have said, under ISO800, it is fine.

Have a look at this thread about the GF1 which is, sensor wise, a Panasonic version of the EPM1.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3770988

Allan

The GF3 seems to be about the same size and is running $200 with lens refurbished. Would that be closer to a EPM2 in quality?

If your talking sensors the GF3 uses the older 12mp one. The GF3 can't accept a viewfinder.

More money than a Epm1 for a less capable camera? Guess its not a good deal

I own the EPM1. I also own the EPL5 and EM5 camera with the Sony 16MP sensor. The latter sensor is 1-2 stops better at higher ISO, and that greatly extends your shooting capability in bad light.

From a users point of view, the EPM2 adds a touch screen which can make switching modes a bit quicker. It has a badly needed second programmable button, handy if you want to do manual focus with old lenses.

Much as I think the EPM2 is a better entry point, I liked my EPM1 for being a small easy to carry camera that can take good shots.

Here's EPM1 at ISO 3200. It's probably best held under 1600. Did have a good lens on it though.

And this is with the newer sensor on an EM5 using a slow zoom.

Tony8232 wrote:

crcostel wrote:

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

Thanks!

(Sorry for double post but I wasn't sure where this belonged)

I have both cameras and I upgraded from the Canon SX130. The E-PM1 is big improvement over the Canon. The EPM2 has better high ISO than the EPM1 and more resolution. Some of the advantages of the EPM2 are 1/8 second anti shock setting, touch screen, one more programmable button and a direct delete button. I find the touch screen very useful. These improvements all add up to a nicer and easier to use camera. The price difference is justified. It also has the same IQ of the top Olympus models. If you are going to keep the camera for a while spend the extra money or wait for a used one. Cameta Camera used to carry numerous refurbished Olympus products. They have their own warranty program.

The EPM1 has 1/8 sec anti shock also. It can be set up to use the video button as a direct delete.

Seems about evenly split...

Are the standard kit lenses the same on both?

My usage would mainly be for shots of my newborn twins, family candids and maybe t-ball down the road.

Sorry one more - I can get a new A5000 w/lens (I know its not an m43) for $250. For any with experience, how would that compare?

crcostel wrote:

I see I can get a refurb E-PM1 w/ standard zoom lens for $150 shipped, about half what a new E-PM2 would cost. Is the PM1 a good deal? Would I be disappointed in picture quality at 8x10 size?

The E-PM2 has been available for as little as $199 new this year in kit with the 14-42 lens. I picked one up as a backup to the E-M1. The E-PM2 has a sensor approx. two stops better than that in the E-PM1 for both low light and dynamic range (arguably the same thing), and it's a higher resolution sensor.

Frankly, all you need for a good 8x10 is 6mp. Past that you're running into the limits of human perception at normal print viewing distances. But all else being equal, you'll be able to take cleaner pictures in a broader range of shooting conditions with the E-PM2.

crcostel wrote:

Sorry one more - I can get a new A5000 w/lens (I know its not an m43) for $250. For any with experience, how would that compare?

My A3000 has a similar sensor and I use that as a back for a Metabones Speedbooster plus manual focus lenses. It provides fine image quality but I do wish I had the A5000 instead--the A3000's screen and viewfinder are awful, just awful!

That aside, Sony's basic cameras use an electronic first curtain shutter, which means they avoid the shutter shock problem entirely (shutter-induced resonance vibrations that plague small cameras in general). They are great for critical work and will give you excellent prints, and the sensors are technically superior to those in Micro Four Thirds--but that also comes with a size cost.

I don't find the Sony lens system very compelling at this point (M43 has by far the most developed system of lenses out there other than Canon and Nikon's full frame systems), but I personally didn't buy mine for Sony's lenses. For me, the biggest risk with Sony is whether or not they're actually going to be supporting and developing for your product a couple years down the line. A couple years ago all their weight was behind their Alpha-mount SLTs, and now they've shifted seemingly all their attention away from APS-C E-mount to 35mm E-mount. In a couple more years they might have something else entirely. But if you just want a picture taking machine, there's nothing wrong with Sony and they put out a fine product.

Frankly, the E-PM2 has a better feature set-- Live Time mode, a feature unique to Olympus, is a godsend for tripod-based long exposure shooting (in Live Time and Live Bulb modes you get an actively developing preview of the image as you're shooting, rather than only at the end of the exposure--and the fact that the camera features a "time" mode as well as a bulb mode means you don't have to fuss with release cables). The E-PM2 is also a faster camera, much better suited for action photography.

All of the cameras you're looking at are very good, some might be better in some situations than others, but really I think you'd be happy with any of them. It just depends on what you plan to shoot.

crcostel wrote:

Sorry one more - I can get a new A5000 w/lens (I know its not an m43) for $250. For any with experience, how would that compare?

So far, you've brought up four cameras: Olympus E-PM1, E-PM2; Panasonic GF3; Sony A5000. It kind of depends on what you need.

The Olympus E-PM1 and Panasonic GF3 use the same sensor and if they're both equipped with their respective 14-42mm kit lenses, similarly versatile. The Panasonic's jpeg engine isn't very highly regarded, so the Olympus will have slightly better output if using jpeg rather than RAW. The biggest differences come down to interface - if you get a chance to play with both, it's worth trying them out. I'm more used to the Olympus menu system, but the Panasonic's system doesn't seem too hard to learn. Lastly, you trade a built in flash (Panasonic) for a viewfinder-capable hotshoe. If you're not used to shooting with a viewfinder, you may not miss it. The Panasonic's flash is also bounce-able, meaning you can hold it back to fire upwards rather than forwards. Very useful when you don't want that 'flash burn' that so often happens with front-firing flashes.

The E-PM2 is a bit more of an involved camera than either the E-PM1 or the GF3, as it has an extra programmable button and a sensor that has a significant amount of latitude when used in RAW - I've raised shadows quite a few stops at base ISO, giving me outdoor shots with both blue skies as well as plenty of details in the shade.

None of the m4/3 cameras are very good at tracking moving subjects, something that the A5000 should be able to manage, as it has on-sensor phase detect AF, if I recall correctly. If keeping up with a toddler is important, then this might be something you'll want to keep in mind.

I don't have the A5000, but I've also noticed the low prices Sony wants for their lineup, and toyed with the idea of getting an A6000 for a few things. However, the 16-50mm collapsible lens that comes with an A5000-6000 is very poorly regarded, with significant amounts of distortion correction in corners - what this means is that you might have a nice sharp image in the center of the frame, but you'll have worse resolution on the sides.

It sounds like you're planning on sticking with the kit lens for now - do you plan on getting additional lenses in the future?