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Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

Started Oct 4, 2014 | Questions
clear glass Contributing Member • Posts: 854
Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

The stereo effect depends upon the difference in the distance of near and far objects in the image.

It is also affected by the distance between the two lenses in the camera or binocular.

(I seem to recall a standard distance between lenses to mimic the eyes, but aren't stereo images sometimes made by two lenses with a different separation in a pair of binoculars,  a picture from space, or one  camera  shifted to make a stereo pair of a stationary object I also seem to recall that stereo closeups need lenses with non-standard separation, and this is accomplished sometimes by close-up lenses with prisms.

Do I have any idea what I'm talking about?

Has anyone heard of eyeglasses with prisms that optically increase or decrease stereo sepatation know what the effect it has on the stereo view?

ANSWER:
This question has not been answered yet.
Turbguy1
MOD Turbguy1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,467
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?
1

clear glass wrote:

The stereo effect depends upon the difference in the distance of near and far objects in the image.

It is also affected by the distance between the two lenses in the camera or binocular.

(I seem to recall a standard distance between lenses to mimic the eyes, but aren't stereo images sometimes made by two lenses with a different separation in a pair of binoculars, a picture from space, or one camera shifted to make a stereo pair of a stationary object I also seem to recall that stereo closeups need lenses with non-standard separation, and this is accomplished sometimes by close-up lenses with prisms.

Do I have any idea what I'm talking about?

Has anyone heard of eyeglasses with prisms that optically increase or decrease stereo sepatation know what the effect it has on the stereo view?

An increase in interaxial separation results in the effect called "Hyperstereo". It is useful for showing enhanced depths of scene elements at greater distances. Very close elements must be avoided, as they would have excess deviation (result: uncomfortable or impossible viewing). Binoculars typically have a wider separation than the eyes, so they will more easily show a better depth between distant objects. Some binoculars for military use can have VERY wide separation (several feet).

A decrease in interaxial separation results in the effect called "Hypostereo", where it decreases the depths shown for distant scene elements, but permits closer elements to be included and to show depth in those elements, without causing excess deviation. Typically, Hypostereo can be of use in Macro photography, while keeping distant elements within reasonable deviation. Stereo Microscopes have closer interaxials, for instance. So do some compact binoculars, designed that way to be, well, compact! A few surgical glasses also have decreased interaxial optics, to show depths for the very fine and close handwork, while keeping deviations comfortable. It's akin to "wearing a stereo microscope". Most surgical glasses are simply loupes that "toe in" heavily, though, which effectively produces a closer interaxial. And the wearer compensates for the resulting keystone distortion (I hope!).

There are several mirror-type stereo viewers that will increase the interaxial. Most of these have no magnification lenses.

The pokescope viewer uses lens wedges, and so does the classic Holmes card viewer to increase the "effective" separation slightly. There are eyeglass-integrated prism-type viewers that work too. Many of these optics include magnification, so they would not work for viewing distant scenes by eye.

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3dreal Senior Member • Posts: 2,271
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

sweiller has used a prism to reduce fuji w3 base radically to 16mm.

http://sweiller.free.fr/FUJI-W3-3D/Base_W3W1_/BaseW3W1.htm

main page:

http://sweiller.free.fr/

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Turbguy1
MOD Turbguy1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,467
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

Yes!  He used prisms from glasses you wear to watch TV lying down.

Note that this mod severely restricts the FOV of the cam, but it does work!

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hdr Senior Member • Posts: 2,867
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

Thank you, Wayne, for that good and useful  post. 

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Depth haz been the mizzing dimenzion for long enough. But still, few are bothered with 3D.
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OP clear glass Contributing Member • Posts: 854
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

That's very informative. Thank you.

What about the other question-- In the scene viewed or photographed, does the ratio of the distance of nearest object to the viewer to the distance of farthermost object to the viewer determine some of the extent of the  apparent three-dimensionality of the scene?

Turbguy1
MOD Turbguy1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,467
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

"Apparent 3-dimensionality" is both a perception issue, and a comfort issue.

If you wish to show 3-dimensionality of a narrow range of far elements (say objects 100 feet away out to infinity) with comfort, you must use a wider seperation, else the elements may appear "flat".

If you wish to show 3-dimensionality of a wider range of elements (say, 1 foot to infinity) with comfort, you must use a smaller separation, else you will have an uncomfortable view.

If you wish to show 3-dimensionality in a very narrow range of closer elements (say, 4" to 8"), you can use either a small separation, -OR-...

You can toe-in the cameras so the important elements remain centered in the view, using a normal (or even wider) separation, and correct resulting keystone distortion in software in post process. This will enhance depth ("3-dimensionality") of the result than otherwise produced by a small separation, with the penalty of cropping out significant amounts of the edges of the frame during correction.

The situation you discuss has been called "depth budget" by stereo moviemakers. You need to adjust interaxial, and sometimes toe-in, to assure the important elements in the scene are comfortable to view.

Actually, it would be optimal if the separation between the optical axes of parallel lenses (with a large image circle), and the separation of the sensors behind them, could be adjusted independently. This would reduce or eliminate toe-in and keystone distortion. Nobody makes such equipment, AFAIK...

Hope this helps????

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hdr Senior Member • Posts: 2,867
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

clear glass wrote:

That's very informative. Thank you.

What about the other question-- In the scene viewed or photographed, does the ratio of the distance of nearest object to the viewer to the distance of farthermost object to the viewer determine some of the extent of the apparent three-dimensionality of the scene?

Composition wise, 3D photography is a different ball game altogether from flat photography.

Unlike in 2D photography, special attention and effort must be given to ensure foreground, main subject and background all contribute to the overall depth appeal of the final scene.

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Depth haz been the mizzing dimenzion for long enough. But still, few are bothered with 3D.
My favourite 3D pairs website: http://SingaporeGallery.com

3dreal Senior Member • Posts: 2,271
Re: Am I right about stereo limits and enchanement?

He also has a single-cam(mirror) solution.  very interesting. and his powerpack-solution for steredatamaker-cameras.

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Mike_PEAT Forum Pro • Posts: 13,344
There are converters for Fuji W3 (and W1)...

clear glass wrote:

The stereo effect depends upon the difference in the distance of near and far objects in the image.

I've found the best 3D images have layers of distances, near, middle, and far. I've done human portrait (nude) 3D and while you can see the effect, it's not as dramatic as a landscape with objects at different distances in the scene.

It is also affected by the distance between the two lenses in the camera or binocular.

Yup. For the Fuji W3 (the camera I have) for instance there's the macro converter that reduces the stereo base to 25mm (human eyes is 80mm):
http://www.cyclopital3d.com/Fuji-W3-Close-up-Macro-Adapter.html

There's also a stereo base extender for the W3 that extends it to 225mm:
http://www.cyclopital3d.com/Fuji-W3-Base-Extender.html

The weird exception to this is the Panasonic 12.5mm 3d lens for Micro FourThirds cameras with a stereo base of 10mm:
http://m43photo.blogspot.ca/2012/08/lumix-g-125mm-f12-3d-lens-review.html

OP clear glass Contributing Member • Posts: 854
Yes, thannk you.

Very much.

OP clear glass Contributing Member • Posts: 854
Have you tried the Panasonic converter?

What do you think of it or what have you heard about it?

3dreal Senior Member • Posts: 2,271
Re: Have you tried the Panasonic converter?

Panasonic converter- never hear of it.

If you mean the lumix 3d-lens  then in photo3d-yahoo there was a long discussion over the years. no need to repeat everything here.

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