Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Started Oct 1, 2014 | Discussions
tomnorth
tomnorth Contributing Member • Posts: 993
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

You might want to watch the A7s review on All About The Gear. Here is the link to the video. The AF discussion starts at 29:04 into the video. The short story is they really like the camera but the AF is really slow. In continuous autofocus it only shoots at 2.5 fps. The D750 will far outperform the A7s on autofocus performance.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 9,509
Re: In a way pretty obvious ...

Grevture wrote:

Hans von der Crone wrote:

Looking for some unbiased opinions (yeah I know, difficult).

Well, an opinion is by its very definition biased, so that will indeed be difficult

Anyway, I'm thinking very much to get a FF camera to complement my A6000 and RX100M which I'll keep for those moments when weight or compactness matter.

But for all those other moments, and I do a wedding now and then and a lot of indoor work (kids, moving!!), I would get a FF camera. So compactness isn't exactly the most important thing. Things that DO matter in those situations though are AF speed, AF accuracy and lens selection. I'm currently debating between this:

For AF speed, and AF control (like controlling which focus points actually being used), and AF predictability, a good DSLR is still very hard to beat.

Does not apply to the A7s and A7R but the middle A7 is very good at controlling AF point.

The camera has 117 AF points all around the sensor and can use a flexible spot (small medium and large) that can be set anywhere.      Something I am finding very nice.

AF accuracy is a bit more iffy, but if you are referring to consistency in achieving focus in a wide variety of situations, yes, then DSLR AF is accurate. (When it comes to focus precision, mirrorless tend to be better though.)

And among mirrorless, the AF performance is basically reverse proportional to the sensor area. The smaller the sensor, the faster and more useful sensor-based AF. And the A7s has a very large sensor ... A colleague of mine tried one for street photography, but the AF drove him mad. It is slow and hesitant, and your ability to control its behaviour is severely limited.

Mirrorless are not all the same.

The A7s and A7R are different to the a7 ......the a7R is not a camera for AF, the A7s is also not as good as many (except in really low light when it is better than anything).

....all have the same size sensor .....just different pixel counts but the A7 is hybrid and its AF is good within its range (to EV0) while the other two use contrast detect AF only.......A7s works to EV -4 so is not as good as many cameras but AT Ev -4 it is probably the current best AF camera.....above that, not even close to it.

As for lens selection mirrorless cameras are in theory great, you can use almost anything with a adapter. But, then the AF bit get a bit difficult Overall, Canon and Nikon are miles ahead everybody else in terms of lens selection. Very clearly so in terms of new lenses, and even more so when looking at availability of used lenses.

Nikon D750 + 24-120/F4 (kit) + Nikkor 50mm/1.4 (total cost = € 2.799 + € 345 = € 3.144)

or

Sony A7(s) + 24-70/F4 + FE55mm/1.8 (total cost = € 2.299 + € 1.100 + € 899 = € 4.298)

(since I read some of your previous answers )

or

Eos 5D Mk3 + 24-105/4 + 50/1.4 (total cost € 3550 + € 310 = € 3870)

So the Sony would cost me quite a bit more. Which one would you recommend, considering you know I also have an a6000 for weight/compactness (with some very good glass). Still a bit unsure about going to Nikon since I've been shooting Canon for all my life, but the deal I got for the D750 is really very good and the specs/reviews seem to point out that the Nikon could very well be the camera I'm looking for.

I read you used the Eos 5D Mark III before. It has Canons top AF system, the D750 has Nikons top AF system, no big difference there. They are about equally fast in terms of framerate. The D750 has a tad more resolution, slightly better DR (easier to lift shadows without ill effects) and built in wifi. On the other hand you are used to Canon handling and overall behaviour, and how to work with their files - a lot less to re-learn.

As for the A7s, I think you will love its low light capablities, its size, weight and overall feel. But I suspect you would be frustrated over its slowness (2.5 fps with AF) and slow and hesitant AF. And the lack of control of how the AF operates.

I could also go for the Sony A7 which would save me about € 1.000, so then total price would be about the same as the Nikon, but I'm not sure the A7 is either fast enough or if the low light sensitivy is as good.

The low light capabilities are actually not far off, its is after all a very similar sensor to the D750, but the AF is not nearly as good as in your A6000 (with is smaller sensor) and not nearly as fast and useful as in a D750/Eos 5D.

I am not at all unbiased - I love a big bright OVF, I like fast cameras, I absolutely love both Nikons top level AF system (the 51 point system) and Canons top level AF system (the one in 5D Mark III, 1D X).

But ... I actually really do like the A6000 (I have tried it quite a bit), it is in my eyes one of the very best mirrorless cameras yet - it rivals the more pricey Oly E-M1 and Fuji X-T1. These three cameras are among the first mirrorless which, in my eyes, really stand up to DSLR's in terms of overall system performance. They are fast, have fast responsive EVF's, they have nice handling and can actually focus on moving subjects.

I sort of like the A7 cameras (i have used both A7 and A7r) ... But their overall speed and AF performance ... No, they are not there for me yet. They are a bit to slow, a bit to cumbersome in terms of handling.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!
By the way, film is not dead.
It just smells funny

I think the Nikon would be the better camera for the OP as a gut feeling.

I a n
I a n Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Hans von der Crone wrote:

Looking for some unbiased opinions (yeah I know, difficult). Anyway, I'm thinking very much to get a FF camera to complement my A6000 and RX100M which I'll keep for those moments when weight or compactness matter.

I don't know about unbiased but how about trusted? I think this is a good review http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/a-note-about-camera-reviews/sony-nex-camera-reviews/sony-a7-and-a7r-review.html

The big problem that he points out is the issue with lossy compression. Read about it here in more detail: http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection

It is not clear to me if you can choose a RAW storage format that is loss less on the Sony - I have not read enough.  Check into that first - it there is no loss less choice it would be deal breaker for me.

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Daniel Villiers Regular Member • Posts: 169
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

If you do some wedding I think that the answer is simple. The d750 would be the logical choice. Holding a camera for a day you need not only nice hand holding but continous use and perhaps with heavy lens. Apart from all the valid point above lens system etc it is not as if the D750 lags very far behind the A7s. From the example shown the d750 seems very very close to the DF which was the second camera behind the A7s in DXOmark. It is not as if you are going from the first to the 50th. Another thing that has not been discussed is the Flash system. Light is not only about its intensity or lack of it but also its shaping. The flash will help in very contrasty situation like back lights etc or very low light were a some bounce (like a gary fong) can be 10 times better than only ambient light that can be horrendous depending on the venue. It this domain Nikon is very very good . The only complain is that they could put their CLS on radio rather than IR. Every small Chinese company is doing it, it is time for them to do it.

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Alalalala when are they going to see the light.
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wassim al malak Contributing Member • Posts: 670
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

dear ,

why you don't think about : nikon d750 + tamron 24-70 2.8vc + nikkor 85 f1.8g + if you need + tamron 70-200 f2.8 and 28-300 for travels .

that combination can satisfy a lot of your uses .

without any biasing , i like a7s , but when d750 came , d750 is now best than a7s :

- best  AF .

- more MP , more details , more crop capability .

- good video features .

- more lenses .

- good high ISO performance (maybe a7s can do best at very high ISO but you'll loose shapness) .

- compact , light weight , and strong body .

at the end , think a lot before deciding .

have nice pictures .

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Hans vdC
OP Hans vdC Veteran Member • Posts: 3,343
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Thanks, cost-wise the A7S is out of the equation. So it's either the A7+55mm+35mm or the D750+24120+prime. The main reason I'm a bit hesitant to go for the D750 is weight. Not an issue when using this at home or for (paid) work, but it could be an issue for other things. On the other hand, I still have my a6000 + lenses when I need something lighter.

The A7 appeals to me because then I stay within the same system (e-mount), I get fullframe capability in a smaller and lighter body and I love the face and eyeAF features for portrait. But then I'd give up on lens selection, AF speed (I'm not an action shooter, but kids and people rarely stand or sit still) and possibly ISO performance.

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wassim al malak Contributing Member • Posts: 670
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

ok , that's it , you know what you need , then take your decision and go with your needs .

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Tom Ames Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

D750 without a doubt. I haven't used the A7s, but had the A7r and it was slow and the controls are akward and small. Sony makes some good cameras, but for fast moving kids indoors the D750 is the way to go! Especially when you have the A6000 and RX100 already when size matters.

I have gone back to Nikon after trying several mirrorless. But have in adition a Sony RX100II when size matters and it is quite good!

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Grevture Veteran Member • Posts: 4,188
Well ...
5

Hans von der Crone wrote:

Thanks, cost-wise the A7S is out of the equation. So it's either the A7+55mm+35mm or the D750+24120+prime. The main reason I'm a bit hesitant to go for the D750 is weight. Not an issue when using this at home or for (paid) work, but it could be an issue for other things. On the other hand, I still have my a6000 + lenses when I need something lighter.

I have heard that argument a lot, and to me it seem a bit overblown. First: The weight difference between a D750 and a A7 is a mere 300 grams, which is not that much. It is not really heavy vs light, much rather light vs lighter ... Second: A DSLR like D750 gives you a bigger grip which in many ways nullifies the difference anyway. Third: Since the actual body weight difference is so small, the main difference will be in which lenses you choose. With the far greater selection of Nikon (or Canon) lenses, you can more easily build a low weight package fitting your specific needs.

I mean, look at fast primes (since you mentioned two for the A7): With Nikon you have a whole series of modern fast focusing f/1.8 primes: 20/1.8 at 355 grams, the 28/1.8 at 330 grams, the 35/1.8 at 305 grams, the 50/1.8 at 185 grams, and the 85/1.8 at 350 grams. While for A7 you have the just two FF primes, the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8. Now both are slightly lighter at 120 and 281 grams respectively, but the 35 mm is f/2.8, not f/1.8. And looking at prices, you can get the package of Nikon 28/1.8, 35/1.8, 50/1.8 and 85/1.8 for less money then the two Zeiss lenses

The A7 appeals to me because then I stay within the same system (e-mount), I get fullframe capability in a smaller and lighter body and I love the face and eyeAF features for portrait. But then I'd give up on lens selection, AF speed (I'm not an action shooter, but kids and people rarely stand or sit still) and possibly ISO performance.

Now, most of those arguments I do understand - it makes a lot of sense to me staying with one lens mount, with one set of menus, with one method of overall handling, and with one type of raw files simplifying the workflow. It mean you can easily work with A7 and A6000 in tandem - a two camera setup is always great both for flexibility and for peace of mind. You have just one type of batteries, meaning you can switch in a pinch and only need to bring one charger on trips.

The Eye-AF of A6000 and A7 sure is neat. And while I suspect the D750 might be a tad better at high iso then a A7 (it is a year newer), I really don't think the difference will be that great - they do share the same base sensor design.

These are, in my eyes, the real arguments for a A7, while the weight difference to me seem like a bit of a spurious one.

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By the way, film is not dead.
It just smells funny

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thomas2279f
thomas2279f Veteran Member • Posts: 3,232
Re: Probably a few years away still ...

Agree.. plus the hefty prices on the FE lens compared to the lower price Nikon / Canon lens is a bit turn of from investing into a Sony FE Camera - although I have a Sony-Nex and some mirrorless crop lens this will do me and I keep my Nikon as my main system.

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David Thomas

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bwana4swahili
bwana4swahili Contributing Member • Posts: 800
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Hans von der Crone wrote:

Looking for some unbiased opinions (yeah I know, difficult). Anyway, I'm thinking very much to get a FF camera to complement my A6000 and RX100M which I'll keep for those moments when weight or compactness matter.

But for all those other moments, and I do a wedding now and then and a lot of indoor work (kids, moving!!), I would get a FF camera. So compactness isn't exactly the most important thing. Things that DO matter in those situations though are AF speed, AF accuracy and lens selection. I'm currently debating between this:

Nikon D750 + 24-120/F4 (kit) + Nikkor 50mm/1.4 (total cost = € 2.799 + € 345 = € 3.144)

or

Sony A7(s) + 24-70/F4 + FE55mm/1.8 (total cost = € 2.299 + € 1.100 + € 899 = € 4.298)

So the Sony would cost me quite a bit more. Which one would you recommend, considering you know I also have an a6000 for weight/compactness (with some very good glass). Still a bit unsure about going to Nikon since I've been shooting Canon for all my life, but the deal I got for the D750 is really very good and the specs/reviews seem to point out that the Nikon could very well be the camera I'm looking for.

I could also go for the Sony A7 which would save me about € 1.000, so then total price would be about the same as the Nikon, but I'm not sure the A7 is either fast enough or if the low light sensitivy is as good.

You say you're coming from a Canon background?  Take a serious look at the Canon 6D.

I also have years of accumulated Canon cameras, lens & misc. stuff.  I now shoot primarily with both a Sony A7S and A7R.  Like them both for different reasons and uses.  The A7S is great for low light and with its silent shutter mode is fabulous for weddings, events, candid shots, etc.  The A7R, with its resolution, is my choice for birding and other images where cropping is a necessity.

I use the Sony 28-70mm kit lens for the A7 as my only Sony lens and love it!  Otherwise I use adapters for Canon EF & FD, Pentax, Minolta, Tamron, Sigma, M42 and T2 lenses.  Slow autofocus with an adapter but I grew up with manual focus so not a major problem.

I've never had the urge to use Nikon products; just never felt they were that much better than the other guys.

Enjoy!

bwa

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,611
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

As always - it depends what you want.

The Sony has more resolution if you need it, but not even a moderate lens range until early 2016.

To some extent other make legacy lenses on a Sony are not a good option as, ignoring the need for a big adaptor, Nikon AF-s lenses generally cannot be used on Sony with AF etc.

First question - do you want a "system camera" now as distinct from 2016 - yes or no?

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Leonard Shepherd
Is where you are in photography best defined by your recent photos or the equipment you own?

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Grevture Veteran Member • Posts: 4,188
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Leonard,I basically agree with your point, but ...

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

The Sony has more resolution if you need it, but not even a moderate lens range until early 2016.

... did you by any chance confuse a 's' with a 'r'?

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By the way, film is not dead.
It just smells funny

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,611
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Grevture wrote:

Leonard,I basically agree with your point, but ...

... did you by any chance confuse a 's' with a 'r'?

Sorry - yes - it is the Sony A7R which as of now has a very limited dedicated lens range.

Turning to the A7S some UK comment has been a bit muted, part because the sensor noise compromise is biased toward high ISO and at best so-so at low ISO's, part because 4 k video projectors and monitors are hardly plentiful or moderately priced, and part because Sony have kept MP low as a way to achieve 4k video.

I have not handled the S but think it a little early for most amateurs to buy into 4k video.

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Leonard Shepherd
Is where you are in photography best defined by your recent photos or the equipment you own?

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Brucies Heroes Regular Member • Posts: 279
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Haven`t read other replies, but why would you cripple those bodies with f4 zooms? For your fast action indoor shoots i would always go with the f2.8 zooms. For Nikon preferrably the AF-S 24-70 f2.8. Cheers!

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Zoran K Contributing Member • Posts: 808
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

I would with D750, but if you need silent shutter - A7s.

calson Veteran Member • Posts: 9,751
It is the system that is important
2

It is not the camera but the system in terms of lens options, flash, third party gear, and future offerings. If you want both a APS-C and full frame camera options with the same lenses, a wide range of zooms and telephotos and specialty lenses like tilt/shift and macro, third party lenses from Sigma and Tamron and Zeiss, and flash equipment as well as specialty items like a wireless trigger or a GPS for geotagging, then you are better off with either Nikon or Canon.

tomas montero New Member • Posts: 2
Re: Nikon D750 vs Sony A7s : help me decide

Hans von der Crone wrote:

Looking for some unbiased opinions (yeah I know, difficult). Anyway, I'm thinking very much to get a FF camera to complement my A6000 and RX100M which I'll keep for those moments when weight or compactness matter.

But for all those other moments, and I do a wedding now and then and a lot of indoor work (kids, moving!!), I would get a FF camera. So compactness isn't exactly the most important thing. Things that DO matter in those situations though are AF speed, AF accuracy and lens selection. I'm currently debating between this:

Nikon D750 + 24-120/F4 (kit) + Nikkor 50mm/1.4 (total cost = € 2.799 + € 345 = € 3.144)

or

Sony A7(s) + 24-70/F4 + FE55mm/1.8 (total cost = € 2.299 + € 1.100 + € 899 = € 4.298)

So the Sony would cost me quite a bit more. Which one would you recommend, considering you know I also have an a6000 for weight/compactness (with some very good glass). Still a bit unsure about going to Nikon since I've been shooting Canon for all my life, but the deal I got for the D750 is really very good and the specs/reviews seem to point out that the Nikon could very well be the camera I'm looking for.

I could also go for the Sony A7 which would save me about € 1.000, so then total price would be about the same as the Nikon, but I'm not sure the A7 is either fast enough or if the low light sensitivy is as good.

I purchased a sony a7 february 1st 2014...october 20 2014 the a7 is dead  and don't switch on anymore...and need to be returned to sony...

my opinion is sony7 is a beautiful toy capable of doing great things but by no way a pro camera and seems very fragile and not a heavy duty work horse.

Hopefully i still have my old good nikon d7000...

the nikon d750 is missing focus peaking...

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