Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor

Started Sep 22, 2014 | User reviews
thok New Member • Posts: 1
Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
3

This teleconverter might be great for sensors with less resolution than 36.3 MP. I tested it with a Nikon D800 and a Nikkor 300mm 2.8 VR II. It seems you don't get any additional details compared to the DX crop mode of the camera. Check out my video for details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCt0FogCkOQ

Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-14E III
Teleconverter • Nikon F (DX)
Announced: May 14, 2014
thok's score
2.0
Average community score
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Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 24,316
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor

The more MP you have the bigger the print you can make before image degradation begins to show viewing the print close - with any lens combination, aperture and focus distance.

The DX image is smaller and needs to be magnified more for a specific size print, and a converter reduced the MP used to make the image. As a rule of thumb I find slightly better quality is available D7100 without converter with the 300 f2.8 with the D800 and Mk 1 converter when making very large prints.

For 20 inch wide prints or typical web file sizes either option produces more resolution than the human eye can resolve; so no apparent difference.

.

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Leonard Shepherd
Producing good quality photographs, or being good at sport or art, involves a little more than buying appropriate equipment. Practice, some learning and perhaps natural talent often play a bigger role than the equipment in your hands.

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PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 19,535
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor

How about video?   Do you crop video?

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Craig
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brightcolours Forum Pro • Posts: 15,885
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
1

thok wrote:

This teleconverter might be great for sensors with less resolution than 36.3 MP. I tested it with a Nikon D800 and a Nikkor 300mm 2.8 VR II. It seems you don't get any additional details compared to the DX crop mode of the camera. Check out my video for details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCt0FogCkOQ

Well, you can sharpen up things pretty nicely in post processing with the 300mm f2.8 + 1.4 TC 36mp image. You can't do the same with the cropped image, unless maybe one uses one very smart upscaling technique.

photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
12

thok wrote:

This teleconverter might be great for sensors with less resolution than 36.3 MP. I tested it with a Nikon D800 and a Nikkor 300mm 2.8 VR II. It seems you don't get any additional details compared to the DX crop mode of the camera. Check out my video for details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCt0FogCkOQ

I strongly disagree. I don't have that lens or TC but I have the 300mm f/4 Nikkor and the previous version, the TC-14E II, and I get more detail when the TC is used on my D800. The 300mm f/2.8 lens has greater resolving ability than my 300mm f/4 so something is wrong. Your video concludes showing this on the screen :

The 36.3m MP sensor of the D800 already maxes out the the Nikkor 300mm 2.8 VR II. If you add a TC 14E III you'll get more pixels per (cropped) frame but pay it with less light and sharpness.

Probably this teleconverter is more apropriate for sensors of less resolution?

No. Despite what you may think, the D800 does not have an resolution that comes close to challenging your 300mm f/2.8 or my 300mm f/4 Nikkor. In fact, the D800's DX crop area only has about 15mp resolution, slightly less than the D7000's 16mp resolution. I get more detail when I use my TC-14E II or TC-20E III with either the D800 or the 24mp D7100.

It could be that your copy of the TC-14E III is defective but I suspect that your results are more due to a combination of two things, less than perfect shooting technique and not shooting enough photos so that you can select the best copies to compare.

For the shooting technique, I noticed while your tripod appears to be very sturdy, that you didn't use Mirror-Up with a remote release. That produces better results than using the self timer and it helps even if you're shooting with relatively fast shutter speeds. Did you AF fine tune both the lens and the lens+TC at the shooting distance and focal length used to take the photos? Whether you did or didn't, focusing using the D800's Live View produces more accurate focusing than using the D800's phase detect AF sensors so I try to use Live View when possible.

Both AF methods often don't focus perfectly, there's some randomness to it, so you would need to shoot many photos and select the ones that are in best focus to compare. Also, are you aware that no matter whether you use PDAF or LiveView, if you defocus the lens slightly by turning the manual focus ring before autofocusing, you'll get slightly better focusing if you detune the focus in one direction rather than the other? I had been doing this routinely for a couple of years without mentioning it but then discovered a month or two ago that the advantage of using this detuning technique before autofocusing was described in one of Diglloyd's AF articles. Most of Diglloyd's articles can't be seen without subscribing, but the AF articles are in the publicly available "free" area.

I generally shoot 3 to 5 photos at each aperture (over a wide range of reasonable apertures) so when I do similar tests (one lens, with and without a TC) I might end of with nearly 100 photos to compare and rank.

Jane79
Jane79 Regular Member • Posts: 481
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
4

The very first post and already an - albeit short - review and Youtube channel promo. Welcome to the forum!

The TC-14E III is clearly better than the TC-14E II, and both produce significantly better results on the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED VR II shooting the D800 compared to cropping.

just Tony
just Tony Veteran Member • Posts: 4,153
Respectfully disagree
8

I haven't yet found the limit of what you can squeeze out of the 300 f/2.8 VR-II. Every additional stage of TC magnification including stacking them reveals additional detail. Not only that, the stacked combination shows even more detail when the body is the D810 vs. the D800.

Click on the "Gallery page" link and then select "Original" scale to see what you can get on the D800. The 840mm equivalent version is direct 100% scale. The others are upsampled as appropriate to have them all match the size of the moon image.

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kshiroma
kshiroma New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor

I don't like the results on a 24MP DX sensor either with the 300mm f4E PF for example. It literally magnifies flaws that would have otherwise not been resolved.

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Emil Muzz New Member • Posts: 3
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor

I don't understand why you would expect any greater detail through a teleconverter. TCs often degrade the image to one extent or another. I ran autofocus fine-tuning on my TC14E III and 200-500 f5.6 and it made a world of difference. This picture was taken from about 15 feet away with that lens combination at an effective focal length of 1050mm (DX camera).

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wildlifr
wildlifr Senior Member • Posts: 1,711
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
1

Jane79 wrote:

The very first post and already an - albeit short - review and Youtube channel promo. Welcome to the forum!

The TC-14E III is clearly better than the TC-14E II

Not what I found in side by side testing. I also don't think you'll find many reviews that say this. The II was at least as good as the III in my testing, if not slightly better. I sent back the III; not only because it wasn't any better, but also because the II was compatible with my older 300mm f/4 where the III isn't.

, and both produce significantly better results on the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED VR II shooting the D800 compared to cropping.

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Tony

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wildlifr
wildlifr Senior Member • Posts: 1,711
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
2

kshiroma wrote:

I don't like the results on a 24MP DX sensor either with the 300mm f4E PF for example. It literally magnifies flaws that would have otherwise not been resolved.

What does this last sentence mean? What flaws do you think are present but not visible without the TC, but show up with the TC? My TCII is so good on my D500, I almost never take it off of the 300mm PF.

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Tony

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PatMann
PatMann Senior Member • Posts: 1,832
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
3

I don't understand your statement. The only reason to use a TC is to get more detail than you would get by enlarging the image without the TC.

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Pat

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Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 24,316
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
1

PatMann wrote:

The only reason to use a TC is to get more detail than you would get by enlarging the image without the TC.

+1.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

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Wahrsager
Wahrsager Veteran Member • Posts: 3,274
Re: Does not make sense for a 36.3 sensor
2

I know this is a dated post but a lot of people wonder what certain combos of tools will do. FWIW, here's an image taken with a D800E, a 600mm F/4E + TC-14E III. Viewing the full resolution and quality version on my computer, I'm impressed with how much detail comes through.

D800E | f/5.6 | ISO 500 | 1/400th | 850mm

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Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 9,384
Re: Respectfully disagree

just Tony wrote:

I haven't yet found the limit of what you can squeeze out of the 300 f/2.8 VR-II. Every additional stage of TC magnification including stacking them reveals additional detail. Not only that, the stacked combination shows even more detail when the body is the D810 vs. the D800.

Click on the "Gallery page" link and then select "Original" scale to see what you can get on the D800. The 840mm equivalent version is direct 100% scale. The others are upsampled as appropriate to have them all match the size of the moon image.

Thank you for this and doing the testing Tony.  What was your focusing technique like and how difficult was it with the stacked 2x?

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Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 24,316
Re: A query

just Tony wrote:

The 840mm equivalent version is direct 100% scale. The others are upsampled as appropriate to have them all match the size of the moon image.

You have not completed a gear list.

The 840mm is with a 2x plus 1.4 x.

To the best of my knowledge there is no way of attaching two Nikon TC-E converters directly to each other because both have a protruding front element and do not have a suitably recessed rear element to take another TC-E.

Please either clarify at least one of the converters was not a Nikon TC-E or alternatively "spill the beans" please as to how you attached 2 Nikon TC-E to each other.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

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