M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

Started Sep 13, 2014 | Discussions
jondh Forum Member • Posts: 52
M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

No text.

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JDLaing
JDLaing Veteran Member • Posts: 6,426
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

M240.

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Paul20
Paul20 Senior Member • Posts: 2,901
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

M240.

There is no shutterlag on the m9. It's also smaller and lighter.

The m10 does have a quieter shutter though.

Paul
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tony field Forum Pro • Posts: 12,757
M9 lag is 80 ms. but who really knows

Paul20 wrote:

M240.

There is no shutterlag on the m9. It's also smaller and lighter.

The m10 does have a quieter shutter though.

According to the l-camera forum folks, the shutter lag on the M9 is in the order of 80 ms.  The M 240 is "faster".

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JDLaing
JDLaing Veteran Member • Posts: 6,426
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

0.125 seconds.

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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 710
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

From my experience with a M Monochrom (identical shutter as the M9) and a M240 I will say that the M240 is the more responsive and faster camera to work with. Not only because of shutter lag differences, but the shutter on the M240 is a lot nicer to use as well. It feels more tactile and "snappy" to use.

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xtoph Veteran Member • Posts: 9,871
M9 is relatively slow.
2

The m240 is faster, but neither is in the same league with film m's.

It is dissapointing that leica doesnt take this more seriously, but practically speaking, either one is generally fast enough, particularly once you get used to it, for street. Usually the limiting factor is one's ability to anticipate and read a scene. But faster is always better.

Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,416
But be aware...

But be aware that if you have the M240 in live view mode, then the shutter lag is quite significant....

(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 710
Re: But be aware...

Daedalus2000 wrote:

But be aware that if you have the M240 in live view mode, then the shutter lag is quite significant....

True. But nobody would ever use the M240 in LV or EVF mode for street...
Though it has to be said, the M240 is horribly slow in LV/EVF mode.

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tony field Forum Pro • Posts: 12,757
M9 is SLOW for a rangefinder.

Actually, the Leica M9 has a very long shutter lag time compared to other cameras ... this is possibly associated with the nature of the CCD and how it is electrically charged when shooting the frame. Here are some published shutter lags:

M9: 80 ms

M3: 16 ms

M7: 12 ms

Canon 1D-IV: 49 ms

Nikon D3X: 40 ms.

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tony field Forum Pro • Posts: 12,757
Re: M9 is relatively slow.

xtoph wrote:

The m240 is faster, but neither is in the same league with film m's.

It is dissapointing that leica doesnt take this more seriously, but practically speaking, either one is generally fast enough, particularly once you get used to it, for street. Usually the limiting factor is one's ability to anticipate and read a scene. But faster is always better.

Indeed this is true .... the M9 has 6 times longer shutter lag than the M7

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Artichoke
Artichoke Forum Pro • Posts: 12,649
putting this into perspective

it takes about 30 to 40 ms for nerves to conduct from the spinal cord to the hand (based on F wave latency studies)

from cortical initiation to movement adds additional time, far more variable within and between individuals but on the same order

such differences in shutter lag are real, but not significant

between my D3X & my M9 I do not note any difference, though when using AF, acquiring a focus lock adds considerably

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OP jondh Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

Thank you soo much guys. Now I have the information to choose between used  as new condition M9P ($4600) and used M240 ($5700). Thank you

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tony field Forum Pro • Posts: 12,757
Re: putting this into perspective

Artichoke wrote:

it takes about 30 to 40 ms for nerves to conduct from the spinal cord to the hand (based on F wave latency studies)

from cortical initiation to movement adds additional time, far more variable within and between individuals but on the same order

such differences in shutter lag are real, but not significant

between my D3X & my M9 I do not note any difference, though when using AF, acquiring a focus lock adds considerably

The differences are real and important depending upon what you shoot and how you have conditioned your hand/eye to anticipate peak action.   Here is an example...   If I shoot my 1D-IV for a dance production or show jumping, I have developed my timing to accurately and quite reliably record the peak of a jump.   If I shoot my 5D-III, which has about a 60% longer delay, I can miss the absolute peak - with that camera, I have to "fire earlier" to get the peak - this is noticeable since I have to consciously "fire early".   When I shoot the M9 for this type of movement,  I also have to use a similar but even more "fire earlier" strategy.  On the whole, the best process is to stay with one camera only when timing anticipation is critically important.

Of course, I rarely used the M9 for peak action photography -- if I have to use it (the only camera on my shoulder) in the mode, it takes me 5 to 10 shots before I can become adjusted for the timing.

In continuous focusing mode (using a dedicate "af=on" button), the Canon overlaps the focus / fire process and does not require absolute focus lock.... thus eliminating the af acquisition delay.

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Artichoke
Artichoke Forum Pro • Posts: 12,649
agree, Tony
1

using a dedicated AF button eliminates focus acquisition on a DSLR & is a great way to capture action ...use this with my Nikon cameras all the time

I find the advantage of seeing through the VF well beyond  the field of capture a huge advantage in capturing action using a RF providing I can get in close enough

the differences between 0.040 and 0.080 second shutter lag are less important than learning how to time & anticipate action, which must be learned each system

for other digital camera systems, a shutter lag below 0.100 second is considered excellent by most reviewers I have seen

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xtoph Veteran Member • Posts: 9,871
no contest

the general increased reliability, the higher contrast (= faster, more precise) focus patch, the better battery performance, the better high iso performance, the better dynamic range at low iso, the better handling of highlights and moire… i could go on.

i loved so much about my m9, and used it for hundreds of thousands of pictures over the years, but the m240 is better in every way. (and despite what at least some people are saying, it is not larger.)

Godfrey Forum Pro • Posts: 29,554
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

I would pick the M (Type 240) over the M9 any time camera responsiveness was critical. I consider upgrading to the M for exactly that reason, although my M9 continues to work beautifully and produce satisfying results.

The M9 shutter re-cock always just feels lethargic and weak where the M feels snappy and secure.

bosjohn21
bosjohn21 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,103
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

JDLaing wrote:

0.125 seconds.

at .125 the shutter lag is less then the human retina will retain an image. I think while its a good discussion point its not a deal breaker.  I have shot extensively with all kinds of leica cameras and I know the m release had a shorter lag but then the M9 or any M is faster than a nikon or canon in auto focus mode.

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John aka bosjohn21

tony field Forum Pro • Posts: 12,757
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

bosjohn21 wrote:

JDLaing wrote:

0.125 seconds.

at .125 the shutter lag is less then the human retina will retain an image. I think while its a good discussion point its not a deal breaker. I have shot extensively with all kinds of leica cameras and I know the m release had a shorter lag but then the M9 or any M is faster than a nikon or canon in auto focus mode.

That is true John.  However, to continue the analogy, the Nikon or Canon is much faster in auto-focus mode the any M is in "focus then shoot" mode.

Almost every shooter I know uses the Nikon/Canon system in continuous focus mode using the AF button.  This became obvious when the Canon 1D became popular in 2002  --  even Sports Illustrated had an article at that time on how to set up the camera for action use.

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bosjohn21
bosjohn21 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,103
Re: M240 vs M9 for street photography, which one has less shutter lag?

tony field wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

JDLaing wrote:

0.125 seconds.

at .125 the shutter lag is less then the human retina will retain an image. I think while its a good discussion point its not a deal breaker. I have shot extensively with all kinds of leica cameras and I know the m release had a shorter lag but then the M9 or any M is faster than a nikon or canon in auto focus mode.

That is true John. However, to continue the analogy, the Nikon or Canon is much faster in auto-focus mode the any M is in "focus then shoot" mode.

Almost every shooter I know uses the Nikon/Canon system in continuous focus mode using the AF button. This became obvious when the Canon 1D became popular in 2002 -- even Sports Illustrated had an article at that time on how to set up the camera for action use.

ok well there is that but if you use hyperfocal settings its faster than just about anything out there

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John aka bosjohn21

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