Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Started Aug 30, 2014 | Questions
Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can explain the ghosting I'm seeing on scanned images.

The ghosting is most visible where high contrasts meet. eg in below image clearly visible along man's right knee and girl's left shoulder. However, I think it appears to affect overall sharpness across the whole image. It is also often visible along the edges of the frame (despite film being mounted)

x

Details:

  • Scanner: Nikon Coolscan V ED
  • Settings: Full res tif scan, all adjustments switched off. No pp
  • Film: Kodachrome64

It is definitely 100% NOT the usual suspect: ie a misplaced/dirty mirror

I wonder if it could be internal light reflections inside the scanner?

This suspicion is elevated by the fact my scanner has no internal plate? Should it have? The below pictures show these on an LS-40 and a Coolscan 5000 (I can't find an image showing inside a Coolscan V)

Source: www.sebsgarage.com/2005/11/cleaning-nikon-coolscan-iv-ed-ls-40-film-scanner/

Source: http://www.pearsonimaging.com/articles/howto/ls5000cleaning.html

Thanks in advance,

Doss

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ANSWER:
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Svein Eriksen Senior Member • Posts: 1,798
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

I doubt this is the problem, but using ICE with Kodachrome can cause artefacts.

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Doss wrote:

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can explain the ghosting I'm seeing on scanned images.

The ghosting is most visible where high contrasts meet. eg in below image clearly visible along man's right knee and girl's left shoulder. However, I think it appears to affect overall sharpness across the whole image. It is also often visible along the edges of the frame

can't help you but it looks similar to the ghosting in my images from high contrast slides that were scanned with a Coolpix 5000 by a scanning service (only those were worse, in your image I have to boost the curves to see the ghosting but in my images it was often very obvious in the basic image). The effect is strongly reduced local contrast - which lowers apparent sharpness but I don't think the detail itself was worse.

I haven't seen this problem with images I scanned myself over the years with several different Canon and Minolta slide scanners, or the Kodak PhotoCD service. Maybe it's a Coolscan issue (design or maintenance problem?).

OP Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Svein Eriksen wrote:

I doubt this is the problem, but using ICE with Kodachrome can cause artefacts.

Thanks - tried with it on/off = Same.

OP Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

technic wrote:

Doss wrote:

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can explain the ghosting I'm seeing on scanned images.

The ghosting is most visible where high contrasts meet. eg in below image clearly visible along man's right knee and girl's left shoulder. However, I think it appears to affect overall sharpness across the whole image. It is also often visible along the edges of the frame

can't help you but it looks similar to the ghosting in my images from high contrast slides that were scanned with a Coolpix 5000 by a scanning service (only those were worse, in your image I have to boost the curves to see the ghosting but in my images it was often very obvious in the basic image). The effect is strongly reduced local contrast - which lowers apparent sharpness but I don't think the detail itself was worse.

I haven't seen this problem with images I scanned myself over the years with several different Canon and Minolta slide scanners, or the Kodak PhotoCD service. Maybe it's a Coolscan issue (design or maintenance problem?).

Thanks for your time.

I previously had a Canoscan, so re-scanned some slides to see the ghosting evident with the Nikon which weren't with the Canon.

I find it a bit hard to accept this is the norm for what are considered 'good' scanners.

Did the scanning service you used have anything to say about it?

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Doss wrote:

I find it a bit hard to accept this is the norm for what are considered 'good' scanners.

Did the scanning service you used have anything to say about it?

they didn't really comment on the problem but said I could send the slides again for a new (free) scan. Did not try that because there were other problems and it was a foreign company (risk that the slides are lost in transit). Many slides were way too dark which is a problem when you have only jpegs - which I used for most scans because of storage requirements. And many slides were rotated several degrees, so all in all it didn't make a very good impression (of course, the first test scans they did for me were very good ...).

I don't think it is the norm either, but it seems to be a common problem (have heard about it from others).

I learned it is better to scan yourself, but only the slides that you really need in best quality. I'm now using a 'slide copy' setup for scanning (very fast), which is good enough for most of my needs and in some ways better than the professional scanning service...

Svein Eriksen Senior Member • Posts: 1,798
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

What about the frames, glassless?

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Svein Eriksen wrote:

What about the frames, glassless?

yes, all glassless and almost all were hamafix frames. These are light grey color, and I was thinking that maybe this causes a diffuse reflection with the Coolscan (mine also had ghosting both around some very high contrast features and sometimes at the borders).

Svein Eriksen Senior Member • Posts: 1,798
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

technic wrote:

yes, all glassless and almost all were hamafix frames.

Then I'm out of suggestions. I've scanned a couple of hundred KC64 and KC200 slides on LS-2000/LS-5000 and never seen that effect, but I'm not sure if I've any image with quite as strong contrast as the affected areas.

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Svein Eriksen wrote:

technic wrote:

yes, all glassless and almost all were hamafix frames.

Then I'm out of suggestions. I've scanned a couple of hundred KC64 and KC200 slides on LS-2000/LS-5000 and never seen that effect, but I'm not sure if I've any image with quite as strong contrast as the affected areas.

From what I remember I also had this problem only with VERY high contrast slides, e.g. a dark room with one light source. Maybe it just doesn't show with normal contrast as the brightness of the 'ghosting' is probably a certain percentage of the normal image.

bronxbombers4 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,387
examples Coolscan V vs Coolscan 9000 ED:

Many scanners suffer from some of that halation at extreme contrast borders.

We had a Coolscan V and it had some of that, but it had it and most do. Then got the Coolscan 9000 ED which used diffused side lighting and it has none of that sort of issue at all, it also doesn't overemphasize emulsion bubbles and grain nearly so much either.

See here is with Coolscan V (direct lighting):

And then with the advanced diffused lighting of the 9000 ED:

And emulsion bubbles/grain differences first V:

with the 9000:

bronxbombers4 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,387
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Svein Eriksen wrote:

technic wrote:

yes, all glassless and almost all were hamafix frames.

Then I'm out of suggestions. I've scanned a couple of hundred KC64 and KC200 slides on LS-2000/LS-5000 and never seen that effect, but I'm not sure if I've any image with quite as strong contrast as the affected areas.

8000/9000 used diffused lighting and don't have the problem

the V and most scanners do

the 5000 I guess does but to a much lesser degree than the V from what you say

Otts Forum Member • Posts: 85
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Are you using the Nikon software or a 3rd party like VueScan?  I use VueScan with my 5000 - I think they might have a free trial - otherwise it is really inexpensive to purchase and is always kept up to date.

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OP Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Otts wrote:

Are you using the Nikon software or a 3rd party like VueScan? I use VueScan with my 5000 - I think they might have a free trial - otherwise it is really inexpensive to purchase and is always kept up to date.

I do have Vuescan. Alas, it makes no difference (but I do agree it's excellent value/supported software)

OP Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Thankyou for posting these comparisons.

bronxbombers4 wrote:

Many scanners suffer from some of that halation at extreme contrast borders.

We had a Coolscan V and it had some of that, but it had it and most do. Then got the Coolscan 9000 ED which used diffused side lighting and it has none of that sort of issue at all, it also doesn't overemphasize emulsion bubbles and grain nearly so much either.

See here is with Coolscan V (direct lighting):

:

Yes, the above looks like the wishy-washy sort of results I'm getting. You are saying this is normal for a Coolscan V?

Makes me wonder why it has such a good reputation for a mid-range consumer scanner/ My old FS2710 (going for 1/10th the price on ebay) gave much sharper results

technic Veteran Member • Posts: 8,932
Re: Thankyou for posting these comparisons.

Doss wrote:

Makes me wonder why it has such a good reputation for a mid-range consumer scanner/ My old FS2710 (going for 1/10th the price on ebay) gave much sharper results

My experience from using the FS2710 and looking at slides scanned on the Coolpix 5000: the coolpix files are sharper, but that is about the only advantage. It also has more obvious grain, and these artifacts. Probably the Coolpix is faster in use though. Maybe the good reputation is based on the high end models with diffusion lighting?

Unfortunately almost all these old scanners are a pain to use due to outdated hardware interfaces, outdated drivers and lack of repair options if anything breaks down.

Samuel Dilworth
Samuel Dilworth Regular Member • Posts: 249
Re: Nikon Coolscan scanner Ghosting

Doss wrote:

It is definitely 100% NOT the usual suspect: ie a misplaced/dirty mirror

Why do you say that? I ask because it looks very much like the dusty mirror these scanners suffer from unless kept fastidiously clean. I store mine lying on its side in a plastic bin bag (which statically attracts dust) and furthermore scan with it on its side when possible. This reduces the amount of dust falling onto the mirror.

OP Doss Senior Member • Posts: 2,080
Internal Front plate?

Samuel Dilworth wrote:

Doss wrote:

It is definitely 100% NOT the usual suspect: ie a misplaced/dirty mirror

Why do you say that?

To stop anyone before they suggest it is the reason

I ask because it looks very much like the dusty mirror these scanners suffer from unless kept fastidiously clean. I store mine lying on its side in a plastic bin bag (which statically attracts dust) and furthermore scan with it on its side when possible. This reduces the amount of dust falling onto the mirror.

With due respect, I know it's easy to assume I'm wrong (considering some of the bullwhip you read from self-proclaimed savvy folk on here ). But honestly,  I am technically minded enough to know how to take apart something like this to clean/inspect (and when to draw the line and let someone else service it)

I'm still hoping someone who has done likewise with their Coolscan V can confirm the absence of the internal front plate as normal.

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