Airshow with GH3, 100-300 & red-dot sight

This is my second airshow with this combo. If interested, here is a link to the show I did last year around this time (a different show, but same gear):

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51734362

Again - the RDS to the rescue!  Using it helped me to track the planes much better and allowed me to get many more keepers.  I also tried shooting with slower shutter speed at times to blur the props more.  The weather was overcast, and kind of dull for lighting but had to make do with what we had.

Thanks for looking.  There are more shots in the DPR gallery.

Some great shots - I have been experimenting with an RDS also- Where was the airshow?

Monty

savonie wrote:

Some great shots - I have been experimenting with an RDS also- Where was the airshow?

Monty

Thanks Monty.  The show was in Tillsonburg, Ontario.

With your RDS - have you had any success in getting BIF's or other fast moving subjects?  Do you find it helps with that type of subject?

tyampel wrote:

Great shots.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks!

I'm on my second RDS and I do persevere.  I used it briefly last weekend but as usual abandoned it because my in focus keeper rate wasn't good.  I rely on my viewfinder to confirm my focus is correct and as soon as I don't have that I find the camera focuses away from the aircraft and without the VF I'm not aware and can't therefore take appropriate action.

I was hoping last week to use it to increase my frame fillers but in fact I found the opposite because I cannot see telephoto magnification I was cropping out large bits of the subject.

Sometimes I get a result but I feel that my success rate is so much better with an EVF and for aircraft I don't really see that an RDS is going to help me.

I've tried it on BIFs and I find the RDS impossible to use except on fairly slow moving and close gulls.

I wouldn't stand a chance with an RDS on something like this because the camera wants to focus everywhere but the bird.

I wish I knew why other people have so much success when I just don't seem to be able to manage the advantage.  There are times when I really want it to work.

Well done.

I find your solution to the problem of motion tracking with EVS to be very interesting.  Could you possibly post up a photo of your "solution"?   I think a lot of us here would be very interested in that.

I have a couple of RDS, but they would be too large to attach to my EM-1.  Would you be using something like a C-More sight, or possibly a Weaver Micro Dot?

Thanks for any input.

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

I'm on my second RDS and I do persevere. I used it briefly last weekend but as usual abandoned it because my in focus keeper rate wasn't good. I rely on my viewfinder to confirm my focus is correct and as soon as I don't have that I find the camera focuses away from the aircraft and without the VF I'm not aware and can't therefore take appropriate action.

I was hoping last week to use it to increase my frame fillers but in fact I found the opposite because I cannot see telephoto magnification I was cropping out large bits of the subject.

Sometimes I get a result but I feel that my success rate is so much better with an EVF and for aircraft I don't really see that an RDS is going to help me.

I've tried it on BIFs and I find the RDS impossible to use except on fairly slow moving and close gulls.

The RDS is not the perfect answer as I may make it out to be, but I do find it very helpful.  Maybe it just comes down to different techniques?  Basically, my goal with either airshow or BIF shots, is simply to concentrate on just keeping the target (bird or plane) in the view of the camera so it can do its job and focus (and snap the shot).  I am not worried at all about if the object is in focus or not, or what the camera is doing, because I am just keeping all my concentration on trying to follow the subject while the camera is bursting away shots.  I don't have the focus confirmation beep turned on, and I have the body set to release priority (vs. focus) so the camera will keep firing away regardless if the subject is in focus or not.  I also have the focus mode set to single area box, with the box in the centre, enlarged 2 or 3 times larger than the standard setting.  For the planes, this will usually mean I will get them in focus (assuming I can keep them in the view of the camera).  For birds, could be a bit more tricky, because the very large box might allow the camera to grab onto the background instead of the bird, so maybe use a smaller box, but when you are panning and following the bird then the bird should be sharper/contrastier? than the background anyway.

The biggest challenge with the RDS is that you can't see any framing, so in many cases, there will either too much zoom (cutting off part of the bird/plane), or not zoomed in enough (and not getting enough detail on the subject).  This is where the DSLR OVF has a big advantage over the EVF, but even so, with the DSLR OVF it would be a challenge to follow the object at the magnified view (like looking through binoculars).  Not saying it can't be done, just makes it more of a challenge.  With the RDS, it is much easier to follow a fast moving bird or plane because looking/following it through the non-mag view of the RDS.  You can even keep both eyes open while following the action, with just keeping the red dot view in the single eye on the plane.

With the problem of either too much or too little zoom for framing, it means you will also get to know your zoom lens very well!  For example, at this airshow, when the plane would do a flyby, I would track its pass at full zoom (300mm) on the 100-300 and just concentrate on keeping it in the view of the camera.  After the pass, I would chimp the shots and see what I got.  If I was in too tight and cutting off parts of the wing, then I would know for planes at that distance, I had to pull back slightly on the zoom and remember that for the show.  When they came closer, I new to quickly pull back even more before bursting.  When they were further out, it was just set to max zoom.  For birds, a little more challenging, but again - you will develop the muscle memory to know how much to quickly zoom in or out depending on the subject distance to the lens.  Practice, practice!

Regarding focus keeper rate, I am not too worried about it, but of course I would like to get a high ratio.  I think on the airshow, I threw out at least 20-30% of the shots right off the bat due to complete mis-focus, or cutting off part of the plane.  Maybe another 20-30% were not critically sharp, but at least half of my shots were sharp and well framed IMO.  From those, I can easily select a bunch to make a gallery from.  I took around 1,200 shots at that show.

To get as many frame-fillers as possible, just means more practice with the RDS and the ability to track and follow the subject, keeping the dot as close to the subject as possible.

I wouldn't stand a chance with an RDS on something like this because the camera wants to focus everywhere but the bird.

Maybe the GH3 has a better focus speed/ability over the G6?  This could also be giving an advantage.  Have you tried a GH3?

I wish I knew why other people have so much success when I just don't seem to be able to manage the advantage. There are times when I really want it to work.

I live just outside Toronto, so if you are ever in the city we could get together and do some BIF shots and share technique!  Keep practicing!

-- hide signature --

My Galleries are at
http://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter

Bobby J wrote:

I find your solution to the problem of motion tracking with EVS to be very interesting. Could you possibly post up a photo of your "solution"? I think a lot of us here would be very interested in that.

I have a couple of RDS, but they would be too large to attach to my EM-1. Would you be using something like a C-More sight, or possibly a Weaver Micro Dot?

Thanks for any input.

Here is a pic of my setup:

The weaver micro dot should be fine.  You just need a mount to convert it from the Winchester mount to camera hotshoe.

Thanks, that's  a great description of how you use it .  Now I'll have to have another go sometime.  My worry would be that I got my perfect composition but out of focus.  Mind you that happens often enough without an RDS.  I'm a UK resident and last time I was in Toronto was 12 years ago and I don't think I'll be back in the near future.  Pity I like the place.

threepin wrote:

I tried to start a new thread on this but i somehow i could not (browser issue?)

I am hoping to get some brief set-up suggestions for an EM-1 w/50-200 nonswd and 1.4 TC

for use at a thunderbirds practice session this afternoon, light should be good.

Many thanks,

Bill

Do you mean set-up suggestions with the RDS?

If so, just make sure it is calibrated to the lens ahead of time so you are ready for the show. Also, shoot in shutter priority and go with a fast shutter speed (at least 1/1000).

threepin wrote:

actually just camera settings, i don't have a sight unfortunately.

Should use CAF etc

Thanks for your reply

If you have little experience with air displays throw away the convertor, you probably don't need it and you are making tracking much more difficult.

threepin wrote:

ok

will do

any thought on af setting?

I use AFS and 23 area but lots of people will tell you I'm wrong.   Last weekend's offerings are at

https://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter/Dunsfold2014WIPStillMoreToCome#

Some great images! I'm off to the Shoreham Airshow here in the UK tomorrow - just found out that the Canadian Lancaster won't be flying, which is a bit disappointing.

What do you set the focus at? AF-S I'd guess, but then due you specify a particular area rather than spot?

Cheers,
Paul

hifi wrote:

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

I'm on my second RDS and I do persevere. I used it briefly last weekend but as usual abandoned it because my in focus keeper rate wasn't good. I rely on my viewfinder to confirm my focus is correct and as soon as I don't have that I find the camera focuses away from the aircraft and without the VF I'm not aware and can't therefore take appropriate action.

I was hoping last week to use it to increase my frame fillers but in fact I found the opposite because I cannot see telephoto magnification I was cropping out large bits of the subject.

Sometimes I get a result but I feel that my success rate is so much better with an EVF and for aircraft I don't really see that an RDS is going to help me.

I've tried it on BIFs and I find the RDS impossible to use except on fairly slow moving and close gulls.

The RDS is not the perfect answer as I may make it out to be, but I do find it very helpful. Maybe it just comes down to different techniques? Basically, my goal with either airshow or BIF shots, is simply to concentrate on just keeping the target (bird or plane) in the view of the camera so it can do its job and focus (and snap the shot). I am not worried at all about if the object is in focus or not, or what the camera is doing, because I am just keeping all my concentration on trying to follow the subject while the camera is bursting away shots. I don't have the focus confirmation beep turned on, and I have the body set to release priority (vs. focus) so the camera will keep firing away regardless if the subject is in focus or not. I also have the focus mode set to single area box, with the box in the centre, enlarged 2 or 3 times larger than the standard setting. For the planes, this will usually mean I will get them in focus (assuming I can keep them in the view of the camera). For birds, could be a bit more tricky, because the very large box might allow the camera to grab onto the background instead of the bird, so maybe use a smaller box, but when you are panning and following the bird then the bird should be sharper/contrastier? than the background anyway.

The biggest challenge with the RDS is that you can't see any framing, so in many cases, there will either too much zoom (cutting off part of the bird/plane), or not zoomed in enough (and not getting enough detail on the subject). This is where the DSLR OVF has a big advantage over the EVF, but even so, with the DSLR OVF it would be a challenge to follow the object at the magnified view (like looking through binoculars). Not saying it can't be done, just makes it more of a challenge. With the RDS, it is much easier to follow a fast moving bird or plane because looking/following it through the non-mag view of the RDS. You can even keep both eyes open while following the action, with just keeping the red dot view in the single eye on the plane.

With the problem of either too much or too little zoom for framing, it means you will also get to know your zoom lens very well! For example, at this airshow, when the plane would do a flyby, I would track its pass at full zoom (300mm) on the 100-300 and just concentrate on keeping it in the view of the camera. After the pass, I would chimp the shots and see what I got. If I was in too tight and cutting off parts of the wing, then I would know for planes at that distance, I had to pull back slightly on the zoom and remember that for the show. When they came closer, I new to quickly pull back even more before bursting. When they were further out, it was just set to max zoom. For birds, a little more challenging, but again - you will develop the muscle memory to know how much to quickly zoom in or out depending on the subject distance to the lens. Practice, practice!

Regarding focus keeper rate, I am not too worried about it, but of course I would like to get a high ratio. I think on the airshow, I threw out at least 20-30% of the shots right off the bat due to complete mis-focus, or cutting off part of the plane. Maybe another 20-30% were not critically sharp, but at least half of my shots were sharp and well framed IMO. From those, I can easily select a bunch to make a gallery from. I took around 1,200 shots at that show.

To get as many frame-fillers as possible, just means more practice with the RDS and the ability to track and follow the subject, keeping the dot as close to the subject as possible.

I wouldn't stand a chance with an RDS on something like this because the camera wants to focus everywhere but the bird.

Maybe the GH3 has a better focus speed/ability over the G6? This could also be giving an advantage. Have you tried a GH3?

I wish I knew why other people have so much success when I just don't seem to be able to manage the advantage. There are times when I really want it to work.

I live just outside Toronto, so if you are ever in the city we could get together and do some BIF shots and share technique! Keep practicing!

hmm wonder it is is possible to get  red dot sight with the ability to add in drop in frame lines for different focal lengths. This would help with framing.

Excellent, all around.

For some reason though I have a strong hankering for some Jelly Beans with a Red Bull and a Beer.   ???