Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

Started Aug 19, 2014 | Discussions
Mikewb826 New Member • Posts: 1
Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

Currently for nightclub photography I am using a D7100 with a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 and Tamron 10-24mm f3.5 with either a 20inch softbox on a handheld boom or Gary Fong lightsphere, and a SB-700 off-camera with a Nikon SC-29 TTL Cord.

I was thinking about upgrading to the full frame D610 and purchasing the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and sigma 35mm f1.4. I never shoot above ISO 3200 and always use a flash do you think it is worth the upgrade and I will see a huge difference in image quality especially with noise in shadows? I am also looking to do weddings in the near future and keep the 7100 as a backup as well.

 Mikewb826's gear list:Mikewb826's gear list
Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Tamron SP AF 10-24mm F/3.5-4.5 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR II
Nikon D610 Nikon D7100 Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM Tamron SP AF 10-24mm F/3.5-4.5 Di II LD Aspherical (IF)
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GaryR57 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610
2

According to snapsort.com (take it for what it is worth):

"The D610 has excellent image quality 1.2 f-stops higher ISO than the D7100" and "0.5 f-stops more dynamic range" which could be of a benefit to you in low light night clubs I'm guessing.

They also indicate the D610 has about 10 percent better image quality and a larger viewfinder.

Those are the specs that jump out to me as I have been considering a move to FX.

 GaryR57's gear list:GaryR57's gear list
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herbymel Veteran Member • Posts: 6,076
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

I am curious to see what the next full frame offering that is supposed to be introduced at Photokina will be like. For now though if the 7100 isn't falling short of anything you're using if for I'd stick with it for awhile.

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BrettDR Regular Member • Posts: 478
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610
3

Mikewb826 wrote:

Currently for nightclub photography I am using a D7100 with a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 and Tamron 10-24mm f3.5 with either a 20inch softbox on a handheld boom or Gary Fong lightsphere, and a SB-700 off-camera with a Nikon SC-29 TTL Cord.

I was thinking about upgrading to the full frame D610 and purchasing the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and sigma 35mm f1.4. I never shoot above ISO 3200 and always use a flash do you think it is worth the upgrade and I will see a huge difference in image quality especially with noise in shadows? I am also looking to do weddings in the near future and keep the 7100 as a backup as well.

Unless you just really wanna spend the money, I don't think the IQ difference between the d7100 and d610 to be all that great. The d7100 also has 51 auto focus points vs the d610 39 and focuses better in low light (-2 ev I believe?). Noise at ISO 3200 is practically nonexistent or easily correctible in post depending upon your tolerance (I limit my auto ISO to 5000 as I see 6400 as too much noise).

The Sigma 35 1.4 is a great lens and does very well in low light but is hard to shoot wide open as the depth of field is so very narrow. You'd have to stop it down to at least 2.8 to shoot well in a night club scene (never shot a night club but have used it at receptions and parties). To shoot what you are thinking, I'd keep the d7100 and pick up a 24-70 2.8 for 90% of your shots and a 70-200 2.8 for "candid" shots. You have a lot of overlap in your lens choice now (and what you are thinking of carrying) and with 24 mp this isn't really necessary IMO as you can simply crop as needed.

If you are thinking of picking up the d610 and keeping the d7100 as a second body (mount the 24-70 on the d610 and 70-200 on d7100 for example) I'd say save up for the d810 instead. While the d610 is a great camera it is not so vastly better than the d7100 that I'd buy it. Perhaps if you had a d7000 there'd be a greater IQ gain. Plus, the d810 should perform that much better in low light.

Just my $.02

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hoof Senior Member • Posts: 1,904
Get the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8, would be my suggestion

Mikewb826 wrote:

Currently for nightclub photography I am using a D7100 with a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 and Tamron 10-24mm f3.5 with either a 20inch softbox on a handheld boom or Gary Fong lightsphere, and a SB-700 off-camera with a Nikon SC-29 TTL Cord.

I was thinking about upgrading to the full frame D610 and purchasing the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and sigma 35mm f1.4. I never shoot above ISO 3200 and always use a flash do you think it is worth the upgrade and I will see a huge difference in image quality especially with noise in shadows? I am also looking to do weddings in the near future and keep the 7100 as a backup as well.

I'd suggest getting the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8.  It's a 28-53mm F/2.8 equivalent, and will give you everything the Tamron 24-70 + 610 will have, except for narrower range and no stabilization.  For nightclub photography, you need higher shutter speeds, so only the range is a drawback.

For your usages, FF won't buy you that much (except range on the 18-35).  Maybe with the F/1.4 prime you'll get that 1.2 stops advantage, but your depth-of-field would be so thin that AF accuracy might be an issue, as well as compositional issues if you don't just want one person's eye in focus ...

And considering the lighting conditions, the better autofocus in the D7100 will likely aid you better than the bigger sensor, IMO.

FF is great, but you already have the D7100, and with the 18-35mm, you get just about the same abilities, without having to fork over a bunch of money for the upgrade.

 hoof's gear list:hoof's gear list
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1971_M5
1971_M5 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,739
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

Mikewb826 wrote:

20-inch softbox on a handheld boom or Gary Fong lightsphere, and a SB-700 off-camera with a Nikon SC-29 TTL Cord.

Your set-up sounds interesting; do you have any sample shots so we can get an idea of what you're aiming for?  I have only shot handheld with available light and the D7100 does a nice job.

 1971_M5's gear list:1971_M5's gear list
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richiebee
richiebee Senior Member • Posts: 2,856
ISO 3200

I think the D7100 does fine at ISO 3200, in fact I set my auto ISO at 5000 if I'm in low light - I'd rather clean up the noise than not get the shot.  I think since my confidence in dealing with noise at these levels has improved, So have my images. Rather than using artificially low ISO and underexposing, with the thought of brightening in post, I am happier now to let the camera expose properly with a higher ISO. But our tolerances for noise might be different. I'm happy with this one at 5000 ISO

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Gene Goodman Regular Member • Posts: 181
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

I originally upgraded from a D80 to D7000  -  I noticed some improvement, especially in higher ISO  -  but just some.    Then, after getting the D7000   I tried a D600  -  in spite all the claims on these forums,  I did not see a big difference and I returned the D600.   CONCLUSION  -  unless you are a gear head I suspect that you will not see much difference from D7100 to D610.   Sorry, but the tempetation to think that a next generation upgrade will improve your chances are very limited.

Best

Gene

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D7000 50mm f1.4g 50mm f1.8g 60mm micro f2.8g 85mm f1.8g 18-200 VR I Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 OS DC EX HSM Tamron 70-300 Di SP Nikon SB800

Kerry Pierce
Kerry Pierce Forum Pro • Posts: 19,757
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

How much money do you make with your nightclub shooting? If you're making money, buy whatever you want. If you're not, I'd suggest that maybe it's not worth the effort.

Clients don't usually ever see, much less care about, noise levels. They only care about the content of your shot, whether or not you've captured the image that they find appealing. Dramatic, appealing shots will always make you more money than clean, noise free snaps.

Kerry

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DukeCC
DukeCC Contributing Member • Posts: 561
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

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CBR1100XX Contributing Member • Posts: 661
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

Staceyliza Regular Member • Posts: 195
How do you clean up the noise?

For those of you with 7100s, what method do you use to clean up the noise? I recently bought Topaz Denoise and I like that program but I shoot mostly sports and I can't lose sharpness.

 Staceyliza's gear list:Staceyliza's gear list
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GaryR57 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

CBR1100XX wrote:

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

According to the notorious snapsort:

The D7100 has 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range over the D700 while the D700 has a slight edge (0.9 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance.

So it would seem your observations about DR is correct.

 GaryR57's gear list:GaryR57's gear list
Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR Tokina AT-X Pro 100mm f/2.8 Macro +2 more
BrettDR Regular Member • Posts: 478
Re: How do you clean up the noise?

Staceyliza wrote:

For those of you with 7100s, what method do you use to clean up the noise? I recently bought Topaz Denoise and I like that program but I shoot mostly sports and I can't lose sharpness.

I use Lightroom 5. Works great for me. I think you can download it and try it free for 30 days so you might wanna try it out. I de-noise, sharpen and then adjust contrast, etc.

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herbymel Veteran Member • Posts: 6,076
Re: How do you clean up the noise?

Staceyliza wrote:

For those of you with 7100s, what method do you use to clean up the noise? I recently bought Topaz Denoise and I like that program but I shoot mostly sports and I can't lose sharpness.

You can use Denoise without losing much sharpness depending on how you use it. I'm pretty conservative with how and what sliders I'll move and can preserve sharpness pretty well but still remove a good deal of the noise.

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sshoihet Senior Member • Posts: 2,592
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

GaryR57 wrote:

CBR1100XX wrote:

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

According to the notorious snapsort:

The D7100 has 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range over the D700 while the D700 has a slight edge (0.9 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance.

So it would seem your observations about DR is correct.

DR is only better up to about ISO800. The D600 has better dr and significantly better ability to push shadows. The D7100 is very good but the measured DR doesn't take into account the banding you get in the shadows so that really limits your ability to take advantage of the complete range.

 sshoihet's gear list:sshoihet's gear list
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sshoihet Senior Member • Posts: 2,592
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

Mikewb826 wrote:

Currently for nightclub photography I am using a D7100 with a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 and Tamron 10-24mm f3.5 with either a 20inch softbox on a handheld boom or Gary Fong lightsphere, and a SB-700 off-camera with a Nikon SC-29 TTL Cord.

I was thinking about upgrading to the full frame D610 and purchasing the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and sigma 35mm f1.4. I never shoot above ISO 3200 and always use a flash do you think it is worth the upgrade and I will see a huge difference in image quality especially with noise in shadows? I am also looking to do weddings in the near future and keep the 7100 as a backup as well.

I've shot clubs before with my D7000/D7100 and Tamron 17-50 + Nikon 80-200 afs and achieved very good results. It's really going to depend a lot on the lighting; how much you have and how even it is.

I haven't had a chance to shoot my D600 at a club but I use it for dance and it's fantastic! I've loaned it to a couple of people for dance and they said they were able to get shots that were impossible with a D7000. Clubs are a bit different, you can generally go with a lower shutter speed and can often supply your own lighting. If the D7000 AF was good enough in a club, the D600 will be too.

With the 3 cameras, the D600 is my first choice for everything except maybe birds. The viewfinder alone is enough of a benefit. I bought the D7100 first because of the better AF and more bracketing steps but I haven't missed that at all on the D600. The increased DR of the D600 means I rarely blend multiple shots and the AF in the D600 has rarely been an issue. The better color depth of the D600 is something a lot of people don't take into account and it's great.

The D600 is better at pretty much everything and requires less work at high ISO. If you're DOF limited, there's less of a benefit but most shots are sharper shooting at f/4 on FX than wide open at 2.8 on DX. Your mileage may vary but everyone that I know that has switched to FF has been very glad they did it and as long as you don't mind spending the money, I don't really see a down side. You need to look at what you're doing, identify the you'll benefit by switching to FX and determine if it's worth it to you.

For a long time I thought there wasn't much of a difference between DX and FX and that you'd never notice it at small sizes... There is and you do, when you're shooting reasonably good lenses.

 sshoihet's gear list:sshoihet's gear list
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GaryR57 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

sshoihet wrote:

GaryR57 wrote:

CBR1100XX wrote:

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

According to the notorious snapsort:

The D7100 has 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range over the D700 while the D700 has a slight edge (0.9 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance.

So it would seem your observations about DR is correct.

DR is only better up to about ISO800. The D600 has better dr and significantly better ability to push shadows. The D7100 is very good but the measured DR doesn't take into account the banding you get in the shadows so that really limits your ability to take advantage of the complete range.

Yes, as previously posted, the D600 has better DR. But the I was comparing the D7100 to the D700 in my replay above.

The D7100 1.5 f-stops (over D700) wouldn't be in the banding range would it?

 GaryR57's gear list:GaryR57's gear list
Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR Tokina AT-X Pro 100mm f/2.8 Macro +2 more
sshoihet Senior Member • Posts: 2,592
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

GaryR57 wrote:

sshoihet wrote:

GaryR57 wrote:

CBR1100XX wrote:

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

According to the notorious snapsort:

The D7100 has 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range over the D700 while the D700 has a slight edge (0.9 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance.

So it would seem your observations about DR is correct.

DR is only better up to about ISO800. The D600 has better dr and significantly better ability to push shadows. The D7100 is very good but the measured DR doesn't take into account the banding you get in the shadows so that really limits your ability to take advantage of the complete range.

Yes, as previously posted, the D600 has better DR. But the I was comparing the D7100 to the D700 in my replay above.

The D7100 1.5 f-stops (over D700) wouldn't be in the banding range would it?

Most likely,  yes. Most sensors have ~3 stops over middle grey and the rest below so extra DR is usually in the shadows. I do find that the Toshiba sensor in the D7100 handles highlights very well and the highlight rolloff is more similar to film than the Sony sensors. Other than the banding,  I really like the Toshiba sensor and the colours it produces,  I find the reds nicer than the Sony.

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hoof Senior Member • Posts: 1,904
Re: Keep my D7100 for nightclub Photography or Upgrade to D610

sshoihet wrote:

GaryR57 wrote:

sshoihet wrote:

GaryR57 wrote:

CBR1100XX wrote:

DukeCC wrote:

If you always use flash, and will continue to do so, then no--it is not worth the upgrade.

+1

I do available light for performances and love the D7100 up to ISO 6400, 12,800 it's actually not even that bad for B&W (which is what all my work is in), there's noise but it's not too ugly of a grain at any size I print (usually 8x10 & 11x14). I actually like it at 12,800 more than my D700, it seems to have a little more DR and red light doesn't wash out the sensor as much.

And as others have mentioned the AF will be a huge difference and is the reason I got the D7100 over the D600. Going from my D7100 to D700 the AF sensor itself is the same so it covers much less on the FX body. With the D610 you've got a smaller AF sensor so it's an even bigger difference and I already find myself wishing for more coverage on the D700, the D7100 has spoiled me!

According to the notorious snapsort:

The D7100 has 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range over the D700 while the D700 has a slight edge (0.9 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance.

So it would seem your observations about DR is correct.

DR is only better up to about ISO800. The D600 has better dr and significantly better ability to push shadows. The D7100 is very good but the measured DR doesn't take into account the banding you get in the shadows so that really limits your ability to take advantage of the complete range.

Yes, as previously posted, the D600 has better DR. But the I was comparing the D7100 to the D700 in my replay above.

The D7100 1.5 f-stops (over D700) wouldn't be in the banding range would it?

Most likely, yes. Most sensors have ~3 stops over middle grey and the rest below so extra DR is usually in the shadows. I do find that the Toshiba sensor in the D7100 handles highlights very well and the highlight rolloff is more similar to film than the Sony sensors. Other than the banding, I really like the Toshiba sensor and the colours it produces, I find the reds nicer than the Sony.

Another surprise for my D7100 over my D7000 (Sony sensor) in terms of DR was that, despite the banding, my D7100 actually showed more detail when pushed 5 stops vs my D7000.  Sure, my D7000 didn't have banding, but details got muddied vs a 5 stop higher ISO shot.  On my D7100, the detail is similar for ISO 100 pushed 5 stops, and ISO 3200.

Another thing was color shift.  When I push my D7100 5 stops from ISO 100, color is similar to base ISO and ISO 3200.  On my D7000, color shifts noticeably when pushed 5 stops from ISO 100 vs ISO 100 and ISO 3200.

Thus, except for banding, I'd rate my D7100 as superior in IQ when pushed hard vs my D7000.

No idea how the D600 is in similar circumstances, though.

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