TZ60 / TZ25 question to Erik

Started Aug 18, 2014 | Discussions
JahnG
JahnG Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
TZ60 / TZ25 question to Erik

Hello Erik.

I recall that you have used both the TZ25 and the TZ60 (=ZS40) and below is Your comment about the ZS40 some 4 months ago. Now it seems that I'll  POSSIBLY "have to" give the TZ 25 to my daughter, and I consider a TZ60 instead. Reading your comments about the iA of the TZ60, do you think that the iA of the TZ60 is worse than the iA of the TZ 25, with more "smearing" of details and/or much more noise?

This is a rather important point, because my wife would reasonably much use the new camera, and she wishes to use iA . The iA of the TZ25 has been good enough, so if TZ60 has a similar iA quality, then I think that TZ60 would be the right camera.

Best regards

Jahn

-- hide signature --

Your mail some 4 months ago :

Emeybee, it's a crying shame you returned the ZS40 so soon. Your problem was not the camera - it was shooting it in "Auto" mode.

The camera can do MUCH better than you describe: "Auto" mode tries to satisfy everything by taking the "middle of the road" - and winds up unsatisfactory for most situations.

Whats happening, is this: The "Auto mode winds up "stopping down" the Aperture, and that degrades the image - particularly in random-detail areas, like grass. The cause is the phenomenon of Diffraction - the bending of light when passing an edge. It is inescapable, and due to the "wave Nature" of light.

Here's a lot more on the subject in case you are interested:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3359835#forum-post-50571409

Long story short: if you always shoot in "A" mode, with the lens as WIDE as it can go: ƒ/3.3, you will minimize diffraction and get the sharpest pictures the lens is capable of. Period.

AND, as a bonus - since in "A" mode the camera selects the shutter speed, you will get the fastest shutter speed, automatically. Fast is good in most cases.

When shooting in "A" mode, the aperture and shutter speed are displayed at the bottom of the screen. In poor light, if the shutter speed gets too slow (say below 1/30th second) upping the ISO will give faster shutter speeds.

The ONLY time I use ANY setting other than ƒ/3.3 is if the scene is extremely bright, then I may go down to, ƒ/4 or 4.5. A very rare occurance as even the brightest day rarely exceeds 1/2000th second. (if the camera thinks it needs a faster shutter speed, the settings at the bottom will turn red).

Shooting this way will give you much better results - although the FZ200 may do even better because it's ƒ/2.8 is an even larger opening, so less diffraction.

This will not be found in photograpy books because it applies only to small sensor, "P&S" cameras and the authors in 99.9% of books, are thinking of 35mm size sensors.

 JahnG's gear list:JahnG's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 (TZ60) Panasonic ZS100 Pentax K100D Super Pentax K-r Pentax K-S1
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS15 (Lumix DMC-TZ25) Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 (TZ60)
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Erik Ohlson
Erik Ohlson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,312
Re: TZ60 / TZ25 question to Erik

JahnG wrote:

Hello Erik.

I recall that you have used both the TZ25 and the TZ60 (=ZS40) and below is Your comment about the ZS40 some 4 months ago. Now it seems that I'll POSSIBLY "have to" give the TZ 25 to my daughter, and I consider a TZ60 instead. Reading your comments about the iA of the TZ60, do you think that the iA of the TZ60 is worse than the iA of the TZ 25, with more "smearing" of details and/or much more noise?

This is a rather important point, because my wife would reasonably much use the new camera, and she wishes to use iA . The iA of the TZ25 has been good enough, so if TZ60 has a similar iA quality, then I think that TZ60 would be the right camera.

Best regards

Jahn

Jahn - Det gör det samma.

I wouldn't worry about it.

If your wife likes iA on the ZS25, she will likely be OK with it on the ZS40. iA lets the camera choose EVERYTHING so the operator never needs to think about exposure, just "Point and Shoot".

But what I said, 4 months ago still holds: in atomatically doing everyhing, the camera will make choices that do not produce as good a picture as the camera is capable of.

Used the way I suggested, the camera takes the sharpest picture possible with that lens at that time. Since the aperture is wide open, the shutter is forced by the camera's metering system, to operate as fast as possible and - as I said - "fast is good in most cases", meaning that a fast shutter speed stops blur from subject motion, as well as helping the OIS to stop blur from camera motion.

In that way - and outdoors in daylight, shooting in "A" (aperture) mode is no different from shooting in iA mode: no choices need to be made.

My wife shoots in iA mode, does not wish to be bothered - why should your wife be different?

And, really, the average iA shooter won't notice the difference - this is for we "camera nuts" who will notice that at the smaller (higher number) openings, some leaves and grass will have a slight "smeared look", at least when "pixil peeping"

I basically give this advise when someone complains about "smearing": it's how i minimize smearing, although in most cases it's not really important that every blade of grass be perfect, I don't mean to confsue anyone, it's only for the "picky". (kräsen)

Ideally, your wife might be willing to use "A" mode ƒ/3.3 when spending the day in the park, and just switching to iA, but she will get acceptable pictures in iA because she's probably not as critical of the result as some are.

When you are operating the camera you can - of course - use any mode YOU wish to use if you want more critically sharp results. Or just relax and ise iA if you don't want to bother.

Det skall vara bra, i allafall.

Personally, I'd just get another ZS25 and a Clearviewer - even with postage from the US for the CV, the combination would be cheaper than the ZS40. I - personally - did not find the ZS40 to be any better for noemal photos and the EVF is so tiny.

-- hide signature --

Your mail some 4 months ago :

Emeybee, it's a crying shame you returned the ZS40 so soon. Your problem was not the camera - it was shooting it in "Auto" mode.

The camera can do MUCH better than you describe: "Auto" mode tries to satisfy everything by taking the "middle of the road" - and winds up unsatisfactory for most situations.

Whats happening, is this: The "Auto mode winds up "stopping down" the Aperture, and that degrades the image - particularly in random-detail areas, like grass. The cause is the phenomenon of Diffraction - the bending of light when passing an edge. It is inescapable, and due to the "wave Nature" of light.

Here's a lot more on the subject in case you are interested:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3359835#forum-post-50571409

Long story short: if you always shoot in "A" mode, with the lens as WIDE as it can go: ƒ/3.3, you will minimize diffraction and get the sharpest pictures the lens is capable of. Period.

AND, as a bonus - since in "A" mode the camera selects the shutter speed, you will get the fastest shutter speed, automatically. Fast is good in most cases.

When shooting in "A" mode, the aperture and shutter speed are displayed at the bottom of the screen. In poor light, if the shutter speed gets too slow (say below 1/30th second) upping the ISO will give faster shutter speeds.

The ONLY time I use ANY setting other than ƒ/3.3 is if the scene is extremely bright, then I may go down to, ƒ/4 or 4.5. A very rare occurance as even the brightest day rarely exceeds 1/2000th second. (if the camera thinks it needs a faster shutter speed, the settings at the bottom will turn red).

Shooting this way will give you much better results - although the FZ200 may do even better because it's ƒ/2.8 is an even larger opening, so less diffraction.

This will not be found in photograpy books because it applies only to small sensor, "P&S" cameras and the authors in 99.9% of books, are thinking of 35mm size sensors.

-- hide signature --

"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

JahnG
OP JahnG Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
Re: TZ60 / TZ25 question to Erik

Erik Ohlson wrote:

JahnG wrote:

Hello Erik.

I recall that you have used both the TZ25 and the TZ60 (=ZS40) and below is Your comment about the ZS40 some 4 months ago. Now it seems that I'll POSSIBLY "have to" give the TZ 25 to my daughter, and I consider a TZ60 instead. Reading your comments about the iA of the TZ60, do you think that the iA of the TZ60 is worse than the iA of the TZ 25, with more "smearing" of details and/or much more noise?

This is a rather important point, because my wife would reasonably much use the new camera, and she wishes to use iA . The iA of the TZ25 has been good enough, so if TZ60 has a similar iA quality, then I think that TZ60 would be the right camera.

Best regards

Jahn

Jahn - Det gör det samma.

I wouldn't worry about it.

If your wife likes iA on the ZS25, she will likely be OK with it on the ZS40. iA lets the camera choose EVERYTHING so the operator never needs to think about exposure, just "Point and Shoot".

But what I said, 4 months ago still holds: in atomatically doing everyhing, the camera will make choices that do not produce as good a picture as the camera is capable of.

Used the way I suggested, the camera takes the sharpest picture possible with that lens at that time. Since the aperture is wide open, the shutter is forced by the camera's metering system, to operate as fast as possible and - as I said - "fast is good in most cases", meaning that a fast shutter speed stops blur from subject motion, as well as helping the OIS to stop blur from camera motion.

In that way - and outdoors in daylight, shooting in "A" (aperture) mode is no different from shooting in iA mode: no choices need to be made.

My wife shoots in iA mode, does not wish to be bothered - why should your wife be different?

And, really, the average iA shooter won't notice the difference - this is for we "camera nuts" who will notice that at the smaller (higher number) openings, some leaves and grass will have a slight "smeared look", at least when "pixil peeping"

I basically give this advise when someone complains about "smearing": it's how i minimize smearing, although in most cases it's not really important that every blade of grass be perfect, I don't mean to confsue anyone, it's only for the "picky". (kräsen)

Ideally, your wife might be willing to use "A" mode ƒ/3.3 when spending the day in the park, and just switching to iA, but she will get acceptable pictures in iA because she's probably not as critical of the result as some are.

When you are operating the camera you can - of course - use any mode YOU wish to use if you want more critically sharp results. Or just relax and ise iA if you don't want to bother.

Det skall vara bra, i allafall.

Personally, I'd just get another ZS25 and a Clearviewer - even with postage from the US for the CV, the combination would be cheaper than the ZS40. I - personally - did not find the ZS40 to be any better for noemal photos and the EVF is so tiny.

-- hide signature --

Your mail some 4 months ago :

Emeybee, it's a crying shame you returned the ZS40 so soon. Your problem was not the camera - it was shooting it in "Auto" mode.

The camera can do MUCH better than you describe: "Auto" mode tries to satisfy everything by taking the "middle of the road" - and winds up unsatisfactory for most situations.

Whats happening, is this: The "Auto mode winds up "stopping down" the Aperture, and that degrades the image - particularly in random-detail areas, like grass. The cause is the phenomenon of Diffraction - the bending of light when passing an edge. It is inescapable, and due to the "wave Nature" of light.

Here's a lot more on the subject in case you are interested:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3359835#forum-post-50571409

Long story short: if you always shoot in "A" mode, with the lens as WIDE as it can go: ƒ/3.3, you will minimize diffraction and get the sharpest pictures the lens is capable of. Period.

AND, as a bonus - since in "A" mode the camera selects the shutter speed, you will get the fastest shutter speed, automatically. Fast is good in most cases.

When shooting in "A" mode, the aperture and shutter speed are displayed at the bottom of the screen. In poor light, if the shutter speed gets too slow (say below 1/30th second) upping the ISO will give faster shutter speeds.

The ONLY time I use ANY setting other than ƒ/3.3 is if the scene is extremely bright, then I may go down to, ƒ/4 or 4.5. A very rare occurance as even the brightest day rarely exceeds 1/2000th second. (if the camera thinks it needs a faster shutter speed, the settings at the bottom will turn red).

Shooting this way will give you much better results - although the FZ200 may do even better because it's ƒ/2.8 is an even larger opening, so less diffraction.

This will not be found in photograpy books because it applies only to small sensor, "P&S" cameras and the authors in 99.9% of books, are thinking of 35mm size sensors.

-- hide signature --

"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Hello Erik.

Tack så mycket !

Thank's for the thorough description and comments ! I'll start looking at availability and prices. I'm personally so old fashioned that I still like to buy in real shops:-(  ,although the TZ25 for instance was ordered from Amazon (GB) by my wife , who is using Amazon reasonably much. (So possibly it will be again ordered from Amazon, which for us is the easiest and most reliable "web shop")

It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one who likes to use "as fast as possible" shutter time        (Also when I go out with my DSLR I normally use T, and the shortest possibly time.)

Still this week on summer holiday :-), so perhaps I'll go over to Tallinn at the end of the week to take some more pictures, IF there is not storm over the gulf of Finland (a "40 % risk" says the forecast)

best regards

Jahn

 JahnG's gear list:JahnG's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 (TZ60) Panasonic ZS100 Pentax K100D Super Pentax K-r Pentax K-S1
Jack Brandt217
Jack Brandt217 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,826
Re: TZ60 / TZ25 question to Erik

The voice of sweet reason strikes again! Good answer Erik.

Jack

Skip
Skip Senior Member • Posts: 1,898
Re: TZ60 question

I'm just about ready to upgrade my ZS-15 to a ZS-40 in time for an up-coming trip. Since this is about the only thread on the first page that isn't dealing with the FZ-1000, I'll ask a question here if you don't mind.

I see from the Panasonic website that the '40 takes a different battery than the '15. Not too surprising I guess. But I was surprised that they don't show a charger for the new battery. I have a DE-A65 charger for the ZS-15 battery. Any chance that it can be used with the new battery? Or, is there some other charger around that would be compatible? I really don't like the idea of being restricted to in-camera charging. It seems like a big step backwards.

Thanks.

 Skip's gear list:Skip's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS60 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Sony a77 II
Jerrich
Jerrich Senior Member • Posts: 2,692
Re: TZ60 question

I have the Wasabi charger from Amazon for my spare ZS40 batteries.  It is LCH-BCM13, output DC 4.2, 500 ma.  Cheers.

JR

-- hide signature --

Panny FZ200, ZS25, ZS40

 Jerrich's gear list:Jerrich's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS25 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 (TZ60) Canon PowerShot G7 X
Skip
Skip Senior Member • Posts: 1,898
Re: TZ60 question

Jerrich wrote:

I have the Wasabi charger from Amazon for my spare ZS40 batteries. It is LCH-BCM13, output DC 4.2, 500 ma. Cheers.

JR

-- hide signature --

Panny FZ200, ZS25, ZS40

Much appreciated!

 Skip's gear list:Skip's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS60 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Sony a77 II
Erik Ohlson
Erik Ohlson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,312
Re: TZ60 question

The Casio EX-ZR700 camera that I got after rejecting the ZS40 is an "in-camera" charging type and I thought I might not like that, but I've never run out of battery in one day with any camera (I don't shoot as many pictures as some, I guess) and only got down close to the bottom of my battery once, so charging in-camera proved to be no hassle.

I often charged both the Casio & the Panny ZS25 my wife was using, in just a few hours in the evening with the same wallplug adapter so they had to be charged one at a time.

So, in my experience, the in-camera charging wasn't a big problem - keeping our Sony tablet charged and finding useable WiFi, wasa problem  

-- hide signature --

"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Jerrich
Jerrich Senior Member • Posts: 2,692
Re: TZ60 question

Like Erik I've never found in camera charging to be a problem since a full chg will last me more than one day of shooting and I don't really need the extra batts.  I also prefer d/l my pics to computer with cable.  Wireless is clunky, complicated and slow.

JR

-- hide signature --

Panny FZ200, ZS25, ZS40

 Jerrich's gear list:Jerrich's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS25 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS40 (TZ60) Canon PowerShot G7 X
Skip
Skip Senior Member • Posts: 1,898
Re: TZ60 question

Jerrich wrote:

Like Erik I've never found in camera charging to be a problem since a full chg will last me more than one day of shooting and I don't really need the extra batts. I also prefer d/l my pics to computer with cable. Wireless is clunky, complicated and slow.

Thanks guys. I guess old habits are hard to break - I ordered the Wasabi kit from Amazon. Two batteries, charger, and auto adapter for just under $30 seemed like good value. Maybe I'll like in-camera, but at least I'll have the flexibility to charge either way.

Also, I'll be curious about the wireless download although I'm not expecting much. I have always transferred image files to my machine via card readers.

Again, I appreciate your help.

 Skip's gear list:Skip's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS60 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Sony a77 II
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