EX2F is currently more expensive than NX1000. Smaller sensor, non interchangeagle lens. Why?

In brief, why would one opt for a 1/1.7 camera from Samsung when they offer a range of APS-C and larger sensors at not much more cost? Just why is it that their interchangeable lens cameras seem necessarily to lack some of the more useful features and solid feeling body of the EX2F?  I handled a few of the nx series in the store and they feel like junk.  I'm sure they're every bit as sturdy as the EX2F but they have the feel of an "empty box" as one reviewer put it.  Like there's nothing substantial to it. Weight is very low on my list of priorities in a compact camera.

I'm upgrading from a Samsung SL420. I really liked the control, feel, and image quality of my first digital camera before it quit on me. The auto focus failed and was not repairable.

The EX2F is easily the natural progression, but has gone from 250 dollars to 350 dollars in a year... discontinued but still available.

There are a few 4/3 and APS-C compacts in that price range. What is the rationale for buying the EX2F? Fast lens. But the larger 4/3 and APS-C more than compensate for the aperture of their kit lenses.

Wifi. It's not a factor for me.

I wasn't sure before, but I think I'll grow to appreciate a tilt screen so that is a factor.

Many of the exchangeable lens models lack in-body image stabilization. I don't understand why this is, but it worries me when making a decision to buy since it limits choice of lenses to in-lens stabilization from the same manufacturer. Pardon my lack of deeper knowledge here, I'm mostly still a beginner but am hoping to make a wise choice with my limited budget.

Why on earth wouldn't the NX1000, in fact any of the NX series interchangeable lens models, feature image stabilization useful with any, IS lenses or not, in the Samsung lineup? Is there something inherent in the design of interchangeable lens cameras that prohibits the implementation of camera body/sensor IS?

I'm almost disappointed, oddly that there are sooooooooo many choices out there and beyond Samsung. Panasonic DMC-LX7 for one. But there are a few more right in the same slot. If Samsung had introduce the EX2F with a viewfinder and APS-C sensor (heck, they shoehorned a 1" sensor into the NX mini for cripes' sake) I'd have payed 400 dollars for it this evening.

It's unnerving that I can spend an entire afternoon on the web and keep coming up with an 'ideal' camera for my expectations only to have it shot down by just one or two glaring omissions that would have seemed to be minor additions from the engineering/marketing gurus. I realize an APS-C sensor adds cost to the camera. But in this price range it's getting to be more and more common.

You may want to wait with your buying decision untill photokina (16-21 Sept). Maybe something better fitting to your requirements gets presented.

frascati wrote: EX2F is currently more expensive than NX1000. Smaller sensor, non interchangeagle lens. Why?

In brief, why would one opt for a 1/1.7 camera from Samsung when they offer a range of APS-C and larger sensors at not much more cost?

I think there are so many four-digit NX cameras, the old ones heavy discounted ( without profit for samsung ), just that people try the NX system, then maybe buy an additional lens.

Also the EX2F was not always more expensive than the NX1000, I guess now the last EX2F´s will be sold and this way they can get a better price

You can get Pentax MX-1 for around $200 brand new. I bought one for my daughter and the results are excellent

frascati wrote:

In brief, why would one opt for a 1/1.7 camera from Samsung when they offer a range of APS-C and larger sensors at not much more cost? Just why is it that their interchangeable lens cameras seem necessarily to lack some of the more useful features and solid feeling body of the EX2F? I handled a few of the nx series in the store and they feel like junk. I'm sure they're every bit as sturdy as the EX2F but they have the feel of an "empty box" as one reviewer put it. Like there's nothing substantial to it. Weight is very low on my list of priorities in a compact camera.

Go to any brand and look at most of their higher end enthusiast models (i.e. Canon G16, GX1-II, Nikon P7800, P330, Olympus XZ-2, etc) and you will find little bricks built solidly and offering quite the option-set. Samsung was no different with their EX2F, and IMO, what I've seen so far (just received it the other day), this somewhat older EX2F is actually superior to the other brand enthusiast cameras in quite a few areas. An keep in mind that some cameras don't receive the accolades and high purchase numbers upon first release, but then after a period of time...become a cult favorite. I suspect this may become the case with the EX2F. I've always been in the camp of folks who look for that next best enthusiast model (because of the all-in-one factor), and I've really become impressed with this EX2F. So it's no surprise that in some cases, the price of the EX2F is rising (supply and demand laws apply here).

Many of the exchangeable lens models lack in-body image stabilization. I don't understand why this is, but it worries me when making a decision to buy since it limits choice of lenses to in-lens stabilization from the same manufacturer. Pardon my lack of deeper knowledge here, I'm mostly still a beginner but am hoping to make a wise choice with my limited budget.

That's kind of a blanket statement as all Olympus micro 4/3 models have in-body stabilization (IBIS) and these IS systems are quite competent, thus allowing you to use any lens. The Panasonic micro 4/3 models don't have IBIS (with the exception of their GX-7) and require the use of stabilized lenses with OIS (Optical Image Stabilization). Sony mirror-less models have IBIS. Samsung, Nikon, and Canon mirror-less models don't have IBIS and rely on the user to purchase lenses that have IS/VR built into the lens..

Why on earth wouldn't the NX1000, in fact any of the NX series interchangeable lens models, feature image stabilization useful with any, IS lenses or not, in the Samsung lineup? Is there something inherent in the design of interchangeable lens cameras that prohibits the implementation of camera body/sensor IS?

It's more a choice by the manufacturer. Some will argue that the IS on a lens is superior to the IS built into a camera body. Olympus has proved that wrong with their absolutely superb 5 Axis IBIS. If you've not yet tried shooting with one of their E-M series of cameras (specifically their E-M5 and E-M1) and engaged the IS, it's an eye opener to see the stability involved with that system. Now Fuji actually brought this 5-axis equivalent into their new 18-135 MM lens, thus upping the ante for lens-based IS. So right now the manufacturers that use IBIS are Olympus, Sony, and Pentax. The ones that rely on you purchasing a lens that has the IS built into it (Optical IS) are Canon, Nikon, Samsung, and Fuji. It's your choice really.

I'm almost disappointed, oddly that there are sooooooooo many choices out there and beyond Samsung. Panasonic DMC-LX7 for one. But there are a few more right in the same slot. If Samsung had introduce the EX2F with a viewfinder and APS-C sensor (heck, they shoehorned a 1" sensor into the NX mini for cripes' sake) I'd have payed 400 dollars for it this evening.

Now try and visualize the vastly increased size of the EX2F had Samsung included a 1" sensor in that model (two years ago). Of course, Samsung did recently bring out their NX Mini and it's quite small and superbly crafted and the IQ is to die for (when compared to other 1" sensored cameras).

It's unnerving that I can spend an entire afternoon on the web and keep coming up with an 'ideal' camera for my expectations only to have it shot down by just one or two glaring omissions that would have seemed to be minor additions from the engineering/marketing gurus. I realize an APS-C sensor adds cost to the camera. But in this price range it's getting to be more and more common.

Look - don't make this complicated, which is what you're doing. I can honestly saying after trying over a 100 different digital cameras over the past 14 years that it doesn't matter which brand you choose, you will find some superb offerings in each line. Do you think Canon owners are disappointed with what they have....? What about Nikon, Olympus, and Fuji users? Hell No they aren't!! And so it goes for every brand down the line. Folks like me, who shoot with a variety of different brand cameras, can appreciate all of their different models for the contributions they employ to the medium.

So let's look at a simple checklist (based on some of what you mentioned above):

1. Do you desire to have IBIS (In-body Image Stabilization) so that any lens you attach becomes stabilized? If so, then focus on either Olympus micro 4/3, Sony, or Pentax?

2. If the type of IS system does not matter and you'll take IS either in the body or on the lens (wow, this is beginning to sound a bit pornographic...sorry about that). Well, then you're wide open with regards to your choices - sigh, there I go again.

3. Do you want a much smaller sized camera and still want to employ a change of lenses? Then look to Olympus or Panasonic in their micro 4/3 lineup. But then you have to answer question #1 above first.

4. What about IQ capabilities? Well, this is really for naught anymore since everything I've mentioned above is capable of resulting in some absolutely superb IQ.

5. Are you a high MP count fanatic? If you feel that just have to have 20 MP and above, then obviously Canon, Samsung, and Pentax will be your choice. But the 16 MP offerings from the micro 4/3 line and Fuji can just knock your socks off. Heck, I'm still shooting with the likes of the 11 year old (5 MP) Olympus E-1, which has superb IQ levels.

5. Don't knock enthusiast models. There are many of us, whether new users, or seasoned ones, who constantly keep their eyes open for the latest (and best) enthusiast models. There's just something intriguing (convenient) about taking along a small all-in-one instrument that can seemingly offer you superb IQ that rivals the bigger interchangeable lens cameras. I'm one of those. So I catch myself periodically shooting with the likes of the Panasonic LX-7, the Olympus XZ-1, the Nikon P7700/P330, the Fuji X10/X20/X-S1, the Canon G12 and SX-50 HS from time to time (and now the EX2F). Having said that, don't mentally discount the EX2F (or other quality offerings from different brands), as they all have their own merits. If you can afford it, I've been advancing the recommendation for over a decade now on these forums of having both one interchangeable lens camera and one enthusiast model. This way you'd be set for most scenarios.

And in closing (I know, I can get superfluous at times), if you think modern day offerings are ridiculous in price, you have only to research similar releases from 8-10 years ago to see how much more expensive they were in relation to what's being released now-a-days.

Good luck...

...and other than no manual controls in video and one or two oddities, it is excellent. I have owned all manner of compact and pro sumer digital cameras, and I get more keepers with the EX2F than any of them, including the also excellent Panasonic GH2, Pentax K10D etc.

The key Samsung's mix of a superb fast lens, accurate colours and rendition, outstanding 1080P video (the sound recording is very good too - has to be heard!), build quality (have dropped mine so many times), tactile controls (self timer etc on a dial not a menu), articulating display, USB charging etc.

No other compact, Samsung included, has bested it. If the EX2F was a Panasonic, Sony, Olympus etc, it would have been a best seller, it is purely Samsung's lack of brand recognition that hurts it.

The high price - to answer your question - is probably due to lack of high street availability. Here in the UK, it was hardly ever sold in the high street, except by Jessops, but they never had a demo model out, refusing to open the box. Which may be why they went out of business!

I'm holding onto mine until something better comes out, IE, EX3F.

As others have said, the Pentax MX-1 is good for similar reasons, although the lack of a wide angle lens is a killer for me because I do landscape and interior shooting.

BTW, if you zoom in slightly to avoid fish eye distortion, the EX2F is also great for portraits. I get clean high contrast shots that people love.

If there is no EX3D at Photokina, get an EX2F and you'll never look back.

Ben Herrmann wrote:

That's kind of a blanket statement as all Olympus micro 4/3 models have in-body stabilization (IBIS) and these IS systems are quite competent, thus allowing you to use any lens. The Panasonic micro 4/3 models don't have IBIS (with the exception of their GX-7) and require the use of stabilized lenses with OIS (Optical Image Stabilization). Sony mirror-less models have IBIS. Samsung, Nikon, and Canon mirror-less models don't have IBIS and rely on the user to purchase lenses that have IS/VR built into the lens..

Sony doesn't have IBIS, but Pentax Q does.

Greynerd wrote:

The MX-1 seems to be a very under rated camera. I have just had a look on the comparison site and at ISO 6400 it seems to out perform all its competitors at that sensor size. Pity it only has 28mm as the 24mm of the EX2f is very handy.

supeyugin1 wrote:

You can get Pentax MX-1 for around $200 brand new. I bought one for my daughter and the results are excellent

It's still a fantastic camera, especially for the price. The lens is superb, and it's the same as on Olympus XZ-1/2 and Casio EX-10. Processing engine and interface are by Pentax and those are excellent. After I've bought Pentax Q7 setup, my Samsung NX20 is mainly collecting dust. So much fun of a camera!

When I was looking for a compact camera for myself i compared EX2 to one only competitor Panasonic LX7. (also 24/F1,4 - the other compacts in this category have 28 the widest range only)

Lens 24-90/F1,4-F2,3 Leica - IMO better.

Aperture ring - nice for A and M modes

Constant diagonal pictures in 4:3/3:2/16:9 - multi aspect sensor and all availaible in one shot! (+1:1)

Built in ND filter - automatic in P mode and very easy to switch on/off (the lever)

Metal body, optionael great EVF i bought one. - IMO better solution is built in EVF so it is a pitty...

Perfect menu professional functions and quality - any issues so far. (made in Japan)

AVCD movies 1080p 50/60fps really great FHD quality.

EX2F IM o was better in one aspect only - the amoled screen but without EVF .....

The price- I have paid more than for EX2F but as mentioned parameters, battery charger and a leather case included and phot test dony by myself helped in decisioon taking.

As far as I know in USA LX7 was available for 299$ only-  it is twice cheaper than in my country.

But let's answer for the question whe to buy such compact not mirroless camera with DX sensor?

For me the reason is small size, zoom range, AF speed and AF accuracy, wider DOF and macro capabilities.

I use also NX camera but not for every day.

The reasons for NX camera using are:very small DOF and tele range.

Picture quality? When I did comparison LX7 to NX10 the difference is very small and visible only in 100% and NX10 has to be equipped with pancake 30/F2 minmum because with zoom is worse.

On A3 prints LX7 is superb.

So I dream about new compact similar to Olympus Stylus 1 but with 24-400 mm range.

I wonder why Samsung does not produce any similar camera.

Also we can see the new Panasonic FZ1000 becomes very popular and IMO much more convenient than NX camera with 18-200 or doble kit zooms set.

Sorry, I've just now gotten around to noticing your post here.

Wow, you really went into detail here.  Let me say this.....

To begin with, the enthusiast models that I currently "own" and shoot with are the Panasonic LX-7, the Fuji X10, X20, and S-X1, the Nikon P7700 and P330, the Olympus XZ-1, the Canon G12 and SX-50 HS, and now...the Samsung EX2F.  And yes, I've come to like them all (that's why I kept them).  The Fuji's really have a nice "retro" feel to them.  The Nikon P7700 has served me well with it's reach, but it's a bit slower than the other cameras.  The Panny LX-7 is a real gem and up until now (enter the EX2F) I used to use this purely for ultra wide angle 16 x 9 shots.

So when I make comments about cameras, I tend to so "only" when having owned a particular camera(s).  Nothing is worse than folks who chime in on these forums under the guise of trying to "inform" other posters about specific gear - when in fact, they've never used the camera(s) in question.  Unfortunately, this occurs on all of the forums.  And if somebody is asking a valid question about comparisons between specific models, the "BS" that is often flung far and wide can be quite disheartening!

Now to one of your points (I think).  I tend to shoot almost always in RAW mode because of the wider latitude and Dynamic Range that are available in those files.  I only shoot JPG when I absolutely have to (i.e. a camera that doesn't have RAW capability).  If you are a JPG shooter only (or mostly), numerous folks have found the Olympus and Fuji cameras to offer the richest, warmest, and most dynamic JPG's around.  At least that has been my experience and let me tell you, I've shot with over 125 different digital cameras since 1998.  I know that when it came to JPG's, I found the Olympus and Fuji models the best for that.

But since I now have been shooting in RAW only, I don't know what to tell you with regards to the EX2F's JPG capabilities.  All I can say about the EX2F is that:

• The camera is superbly crafted (built like the proverbial tank) - more so than many other enthusiast models, and...
• The clarity of the images (definition) appears to be a step above some of the other 12 MP enthusiast models that I've used.  The optics on this camera are superb and it shows.  I was immediately impressed by this fact, and...
• The RAW files at least, have quite a bit of DR in them - considering the size of the sensor involved.  This was pleasantly surprising, and...
• I like the 24 MM wide angle reach (similar to the LX-7, but with 2 more MP's).  This was perhaps one of the main reasons I purchased this camera.  The optics are very, very sharp.

So in the short time I've had this camera (had the latest firmware), I've become enamored with it.  And no, I don't have any of the current 1" sensored camera cameras.  I've just got too much stuff at the moment.  Heck, I'm still shooting with the likes of the awesome Olympus E-1, which is a 5 MP four-thirds DSLR, whose images still turn heads.  So "newest" doesn't always mean "greatest."

But I can see that it's all become even more confusing to you, and it shouldn't really be.  As I mentioned earlier, you can choose from among most of the brands and wind up with a winner.  Each of us shoots "differently" with our cameras, and what one person may find pleasant shooting with a particular camera, another person won't with the same model.  So who's right in this regard...?  No one is because we're all different.

So all I can say is that even though I have those other enthusiast models (as mentioned above), I found the EX2F a welcomed addition.  I don't know what else to say really.