m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Started Jul 22, 2014 | Discussions
Yannis1976
Yannis1976 Senior Member • Posts: 2,292
m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?
1

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

So far these are my impressions with the G6:

  • superior quality in PC screen, not that much difference in paper.
  • much better high ISO quality and therefore much better for low light pictures.
  • much nicer DOF
  • crop is useful due to increased quality but doesn't give that much more and cant compensate for the lack of zoom.
  • so far I feel I play more with the settings of the G6 in order to get the results I want compared to the FZ150
  • to be honest only recently have I taken some photos I really liked whereas with the FZ150 I felt getting many more keepers.

What I miss from the FZ150:

  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

 Yannis1976's gear list:Yannis1976's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-TX5 Fujifilm XQ2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Olympus Body Cap Lens 15mm F8.0 Sigma 60mm F2.8 DN Art +3 more
Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 33,442
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

So far these are my impressions with the G6:

  • superior quality in PC screen, not that much difference in paper.
  • much better high ISO quality and therefore much better for low light pictures.
  • much nicer DOF
  • crop is useful due to increased quality but doesn't give that much more and cant compensate for the lack of zoom.
  • so far I feel I play more with the settings of the G6 in order to get the results I want compared to the FZ150
  • to be honest only recently have I taken some photos I really liked whereas with the FZ150 I felt getting many more keepers.

What I miss from the FZ150:

  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

With an ILC one in general turns to different lenses for different (and more so specialty) objectives.  This has advantages as well as disadvantages.  Not everyone wants/needs to cope with that set of compromises, finding the compromise of a fixed zoom camera to be more suitable.

If you're not adverse to adding more lenses for specific objectives, and can weather the learning curve you're still wrestling with, then sure, give it more time.   If you find that's taking all the enjoyment out of the endeavor, and you were pretty much satisfied with past fixed-zoom cameras, the FZ1000 may be all you really need.   I can't say which is right for you in the long run.

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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
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 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
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Yannis1976
OP Yannis1976 Senior Member • Posts: 2,292
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?
1

Either way I am planning to give the G6 more time, let the FZ1000 mature a bit and also read some user reviews. Regarding the lenses, I want to avoid getting a lot of them, maybe one more for low light and reducing the overall size (eg pancake).

 Yannis1976's gear list:Yannis1976's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-TX5 Fujifilm XQ2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Olympus Body Cap Lens 15mm F8.0 Sigma 60mm F2.8 DN Art +3 more
Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 33,442
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?
2

Yannis1976 wrote:

Either way I am planning to give the G6 more time, let the FZ1000 mature a bit and also read some user reviews. Regarding the lenses, I want to avoid getting a lot of them, maybe one more for low light and reducing the overall size (eg pancake).

If you want to shoot feathers, you'd want the Lumix 70-300 in your bag.   There's also macro lenses by both Panasonic and Olympus for that objectives - the Oly 12-50 lens sports a 45mm macro mode that is quite stunning.  Non of those are 'fast' for low light opportunities - for that consideration would look at the 12mm, 20mm, 17mm, 35mm, or 50mm f/1.x prime lenses.

So it sounds to me, if you stick with m4/3, you'd end up with 4, maybe 5 lenses in total to cover the subjects you enjoy covering.  Not that you'd carry it all around all the time, but so you had what you needed for whatever whim struck.   Then you go out to do some general landscape and macros, and you run into the best wildlife opportunity ever, but that lens wasn't packed because you didn't anticipate having to.   This is how it can go with an ILC system.

Maybe you want to go slow but continue with your current m4/3 kit, but get a fixed zoom now, and see how you naturally come to want to build on the lenses for m4/3 (buys you time to determine if you really want to continue with m4/3, as well).

Just more food for thought, hope it helps.

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...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Sony RX1R II Sony Alpha a7R II Fujifilm X-T2 Zeiss Batis 25mm F2 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 +11 more
Brian Wadie
Brian Wadie Veteran Member • Posts: 8,189
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

I found it quite steep when I went from Canon DSLR to EM-5 but more because the apparent similarities between systems confused me when they didn't work out on the EM-1 as I anticipated

Once I stopped  trying to shoot with it as if it were my 7D / 5Dmk2 and shot it like an EM-5 it went very smoothly and quickly

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So much to learn, so little time left to do it!

 Brian Wadie's gear list:Brian Wadie's gear list
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pocketpygmy Contributing Member • Posts: 829
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?
1

yannis wrote:

Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

nah. if you're not interested in buying a bunch of lenses, i'd just go with a good bridge cam if that's what you like.

Terminal Boy Senior Member • Posts: 1,095
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

So far these are my impressions with the G6:

  • superior quality in PC screen, not that much difference in paper.
  • much better high ISO quality and therefore much better for low light pictures.
  • much nicer DOF
  • crop is useful due to increased quality but doesn't give that much more and cant compensate for the lack of zoom.
  • so far I feel I play more with the settings of the G6 in order to get the results I want compared to the FZ150
  • to be honest only recently have I taken some photos I really liked whereas with the FZ150 I felt getting many more keepers.

What I miss from the FZ150:

  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

I'll let you know in a year's time..

Just moved from a TZ8 point and clicker which lived in iAuto mode its whole life to a GM1 with a Tamron 14-150mm as I wanted something very capable, but much smaller than a DSLR / Super Zoom so I can carry it around in my work bag.

I fully expect to make lots of bone-headed mistakes...

 Terminal Boy's gear list:Terminal Boy's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Panasonic G85 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS +5 more
ijm5012 Senior Member • Posts: 1,430
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

If you want to do macro, look at buying an adapter that fits on to the 14-140 lens. There are plenty of good quality adapters out there that deliver excellent results.

As for the "reach", the 14-140 will deliver 280mm equivalent FOV. Use the 2x digital zoom, and now you're looking at 560mm equivalent FOV, compared to the 600mm of the FZ200 (or 400mm of the FZ1000). Granted you won't be at the full 16MP, and the aperture will be rather slow, but it does just fine for outdoor shots in good light.

None of the above mentioned cameras will get you the reach of a FZ150/200, but they are better cameras when it comes to sensor size, aperture, feature set, etc. I can tell you that after owning two G6's, and using an FZ200 extensively, the G6 is the far superior camera. Better build quality, more cusomization, better screen/EVF, better ergonomics, better for video. There really isn't a comparison between the two, other than they're built by Panaosonic.

If you want to pick up a lens for low light, look at the 12/2.0, 15/1.7, 17/1.8, 20/1.7 (slower to focus due to older AF design), 25/1.8, or 25/1.4. Any of these lenses are going to smoke teh 14-140 in low light, and would easily be better than a FZ150/200.

 ijm5012's gear list:ijm5012's gear list
Olympus E-M5 II Nikon D500 Olympus E-M1 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +11 more
Mahmoud Mousef Senior Member • Posts: 2,604
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

What I miss from the FZ150:
  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

If you get a macro lens for the G6 I bet you'd be blown away. Then the lens collection starts to grow. But nothing will beat a superzoom for all-in-one convenience and long reach and I'm tempted by the new breed of superzooms myself, even though they are fairly large. My first encounter with an interchangeable lens camera (DSLR) was a let down for a few reasons:

1) poor kit lenses

2) inability to do close-up macros without spending more

3) size / weight

4) dust in viewfinder that developed later (how did it get there?)

And I still dislike changing lenses (I tend to have different lenses on different cameras instead). But if you want better quality at the cost of convenience, they are well worthwhile. Though they will probably demand more money from you.

Lola1234 Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

So far these are my impressions with the G6:

  • superior quality in PC screen, not that much difference in paper.
  • much better high ISO quality and therefore much better for low light pictures.
  • much nicer DOF
  • crop is useful due to increased quality but doesn't give that much more and cant compensate for the lack of zoom.
  • so far I feel I play more with the settings of the G6 in order to get the results I want compared to the FZ150
  • to be honest only recently have I taken some photos I really liked whereas with the FZ150 I felt getting many more keepers.

What I miss from the FZ150:

  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

Very honest post.  I understand your explanation between the two types.  It sounds like what I'm going thru.  But I think I've made up my mind to keep the fz200.  You've given me a good reason as to why I'm having equal amounts of keepers.  I think a more experienced person can put the Oly OMDe5 to much better use than me.

Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 15,366
David Muench using tiny sensor digicams
2

David Muench, the famous landscape photographer, is well known for his use of 4x5 view cameras, but he started using digicams several years ago. He writes about using a Canon PowerShot G10 and Panasonic Lumix FZ50 in 2010:

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/columns/natural-connections/stormlight.html

Panasonic Lumix FZ50: 10.1mp, 1/1.8" sensor, 35-420mm lens Canon PowerShot G10: 14.7mp, 1/1.7" sensor, 28-140mm lens

And then in a 2014 article he talks about using a Canon PowerShot SX50 HS and Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ70:

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/locations/north-america/the-timeless-moment.html

Canon PowerShot SX50 HS: 12.1mp, 1/2.3" sensor, 24-1200mm lens, $349.00 at B&H

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ70: 16mp, 1/2.3" sensor, 20-1200mm lens, $297.99 at B&H

I see that he flirted with big sensor cameras such as the Canon G10, but then decided to go for smaller.

And then this recent 2015 article about his continued use of digicams for landscape photography:

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/locations/north-america/the-big-sky.html

He is still using the Canon PowerShot SX50 HS and Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ70.

I haven't seen anything written about how David Muench makes use of the digicams that he has been using the last few years for his landscape photography. My guess, just a common sense guess, is that he uses the lowest ISO setting and shoots raw. It would be cool to see some of his prints at a gallery.

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 31,602
Re: m4/3...Is the learning curve steep?

Yannis1976 wrote:

Hi,

After being for more than 10 years a Pany compact zoom user (FZ8, FZ28, FZ100, FZ150), I was debating whether to get the G6+14-140 or the FZ200. I finally ended with the G6 but after 3 months of using it I am still not totally convinced, mainly missing the long end of the lens and the macro. Now that the FZ1000 review is out I am also a bit tempted...

So far these are my impressions with the G6:

  • superior quality in PC screen, not that much difference in paper.
  • much better high ISO quality and therefore much better for low light pictures.
  • much nicer DOF
  • crop is useful due to increased quality but doesn't give that much more and cant compensate for the lack of zoom.
  • so far I feel I play more with the settings of the G6 in order to get the results I want compared to the FZ150
  • to be honest only recently have I taken some photos I really liked whereas with the FZ150 I felt getting many more keepers.

What I miss from the FZ150:

  • the looooong end of the zoom where I could catch every bird/animal I wanted in nature
  • the very useful macro where in the G6 is simply non existent.

What do you think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give it more time?

thx

Don't call it so much the "learning curve" but the "curve to the bottom of deep pockets" - otherwise know as "owning a lens for every occasion".  Sometimes made more easy as "buy a couple of zoom lenses to cover all focal lengths".  Not everybody sees the necessity of spending a King's ransom on camera gear.

I think that it is a personal decision to buy the best body affordable and build up a series of lenses that suit the type of shooting that is fancied.  Best to get exotic "best for purpose" lenses rather than general purpose that will cope with anything zooms.  Not that there are no good zoom lenses available and the standard of modern zoom lenses has improved.

But if the FZ200 suits the purpose I would have trouble seeing how a G6 camera body fitted to a standard multi-focal length zoom could do appreciably better.  If you had bought (say) a GX7 and fitted it to a 35-100mm f2.8 zoom then I could have expected you to see better results.

More money of course.  Add (say) a Nocticron 42.5/1.2 and your learning curve would suddenly improve out of sight - but at some real cost and only a fixed focal length prime that will take some cropping to partially compensate.

In the end best stick to what you really need.

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Tom Caldwell

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 31,602
Re: David Muench using tiny sensor digicams OT

Henry,

Just for debate.  I have used the Pentax Q (has IBIS) with its tiny sensor but GM1 sized body and D-mount lenses.  C&D mount lenses can be very variable (and is a subject all of its own) but I have just a few that are of excellent quality such as the Yashinon 38mm f1.4. On the Q this is a FF Eq of about 210mm f1.4.

For all the disadvantages this set up can give long-telephoto use in a very small package and surprisingly good images.

I have not ventured very deeply into longer C&D-mount lenses as I don't really need more than what the 38mm can provide and also that you can buy a few clunkers in the process as I have found out to my cost. But a (say) 75mm D mount would give a pretty good reach for not much lens real estate.

M4/3 really struggles (often vignettes) with C mount and D mount is out of the question of course.

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Tom Caldwell

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