Pentax inn need of the big next step

Started Jul 19, 2014 | Discussions
Holger Bargen Veteran Member • Posts: 4,330
Pentax inn need of the big next step

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

Best regards

Holger

 Holger Bargen's gear list:Holger Bargen's gear list
Pentax K-5 Pentax K-S1 Pentax K-1 Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Sigma 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +7 more
Pentax K-5
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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 11,826
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
6

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

Yawn. Ricoh Imaging reported increased sales.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Ricoh GR III Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +8 more
jamesm007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,663
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

Yawn. Ricoh Imaging reported increased sales.

Alex

Yea how many times do we read this. Keep going Pentax, you have some folks nervous or jealous or both. Never seen so many new people buying Pentax on this forum. We have a lot of regulars just watching right now or better, taking pictures!

 jamesm007's gear list:jamesm007's gear list
Pentax K20D Pentax K-5 Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR +12 more
Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Veteran Member • Posts: 3,125
Pentax only needs stop treating K-mount as the 645-mount

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

And that is all.

Which means, not issue one really good camera in 4 years, and then leave it alone. Since K5 in 2010, we have had a K3 only that is really good and exciting. And now is mid-2014. The K3 is not the most versatile camera in the world either; it is a bit bigger and heavier than the K5.

Instead of such an approach, a bit more flavour / diversity in the offer within the K-mount would be more interesting for many. For example, a really small DSLR camera like the Canon's own SL1 would be appreciated.

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Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.

britcam
britcam Senior Member • Posts: 2,464
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
3

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

Best regards

Holger

I see the same thing in both the UK and in France ... I watch eBay and forum classifieds quite a bit. Prices being achieved are lower, and there is much less interest these days in Pentax cameras and lenses that have previously been highly sought after, attracting good prices.  Fine examples of DA and DA* lenses are just not selling at what I would call "proper" prices.

Pentax needs to up its game and restore some confidence, and soon ... In the meantime many will put their heads in the sand ... its normal.

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Regards
Rich S (britcam)

 britcam's gear list:britcam's gear list
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Petroglyph
Petroglyph Veteran Member • Posts: 6,096
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
1

Asahi Kogaku Goshi Kaisha, November 1919 = spectacle manufacturer (still makes them today)

Asahi optical = 1938 - 2002 (AsahiFlex introduced 1952)

Pentax corp. = 2002 - 2007

Hoya = 2007-2011 (Closed Japan factory and moved camera/lens operations to SE Asia)

Ricoh = 2011 - present (Bought camera division Hoya kept medical devices)

Pentax was only more than a brand name for 5-years in the early digital era.  If Ricoh finds the K-mount profitable they'll keep it going.

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zakaria
zakaria Veteran Member • Posts: 5,418
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
6

Don't worry about the pentax future. It is doing well. Although it is a niche company it has 3 mounts. Things that the big boys can't do. Their MF system is promising. Full frame is not the end of the world.
--
pentaxian .

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jamesm007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,663
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
5

britcam wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

Best regards

Holger

I see the same thing in both the UK and in France ... I watch eBay and forum classifieds quite a bit. Prices being achieved are lower, and there is much less interest these days in Pentax cameras and lenses that have previously been highly sought after, attracting good prices. Fine examples of DA and DA* lenses are just not selling at what I would call "proper" prices.

Pentax needs to up its game and restore some confidence, and soon ... In the meantime many will put their heads in the sand ... its normal.

KM had far more resource than Pentax, and even they after much pain, decide to let it go. The market is right now being doiminated by Nikon and Canon. And I have put it somewhere before. that is time had tide do not wait for anybody. The market had seen the Consumer imaging market of Digital side pretty much a mature affair. Both DSLR and DC. Mfr that do not or cannot keep up with the market expectation , market need, and most of all who cannot provide the needed product NOW and made it availiable is not going to made it.

With Sony now clearly in for it. Its likely that Sony can put their might behind the system and push for a chunk of the market. There is now Nikon & Canon in the forefornt, with a bunch of Medium Format digital solution for the real PRO and Top end. Olympus and Sony will battle it out for the 3rd place and that all important critial market penetration. What's it up for others. Kodak, well they aien't look like they are any serious into this sector anymore. Sigma, well the Mfr can bet on more Lens sale, and DSLR is not one of their core business and likeluy remain so.

Pentax do not have any technological advantage nor do it have the system penetration or market share to guarantee a viable future. I can see tough roads ahead for this system. Unless Pentax can come around big in 2006. Their position is but only shaky ...

Above Written Jan 19, 2006 by a forum member not me.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/16786782

I have been reading the same thing over and over for years! No one as this poster and other think a company tries to match established players and ninche players and the whole market. Pentax is still here because they do what they do best! And people buy it. They have MF and world class APS dSLRs with image quality up to par. Morever the best APS all weather lens selection bar none. I don't know if anyone notices but the industry moves at the pace of sensor manufactures. For a long stretch of time, over a year to years we had no development in FF. Because Sonys factories were under water. When Sony, Toshiba, Samsung who ever dishes out new sensors then new models can be made rather than a upgrade around the same sensor as the K5II(s) were. The K-3 was a major step up. Does Sony have a 30mp APS sensor that's has 15ev of DR and better shadow noise performance than the K-5. Now that would be a camera! Give it time.

I can literly pull up hundreds of posts just like yours. Did you buy a brand or a camera to take pics with? You can email Ricoh with what you think to try and help them out if you want.

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petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,614
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

Yawn. Ricoh Imaging reported increased sales.

Alex

Could well be but could you supply the reference for increased sales of cameras as distinct from the performance generally of their imaging division? I'm thinking this division might include more than cameras and that the figure aren't broken out, though perhaps they are.

Second, while it's good news if Ricoh are indeed increasing the sales of their cameras, it doesn't make a great deal of difference to an individual buyer, or to a market segment of buyers, if the increased activity is in an area of part of the world which holds no interest for them. If Pentax increased the sales of their bridge cameras and P&S ones by 300 per cent, just for example, but let their support at the K3 and Limited lens level go fallow, then most of those posting on this board would be off elsewhere.

Second-hand prices on Ebay do seem pretty soft as others in this thread have suggested. That's not a great sign really.

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 11,826
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

petreluk wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

Yawn. Ricoh Imaging reported increased sales.

Alex

Could well be but could you supply the reference for increased sales of cameras as distinct from the performance generally of their imaging division? I'm thinking this division might include more than cameras and that the figure aren't broken out, though perhaps they are.

You won't find any such figures. All there is - they're talking about "increase in sales of digital cameras".

Note that industrial cameras & surveillance are in a different division. Ricoh Imaging is just Pentax and Ricoh's camera division combined - and it's grouped into Other, together with their lease and financing business.

Second, while it's good news if Ricoh are indeed increasing the sales of their cameras, it doesn't make a great deal of difference to an individual buyer, or to a market segment of buyers, if the increased activity is in an area of part of the world which holds no interest for them. If Pentax increased the sales of their bridge cameras and P&S ones by 300 per cent, just for example, but let their support at the K3 and Limited lens level go fallow, then most of those posting on this board would be off elsewhere.

Huh? Do you know what cameras they launched? How on Earth would they increase "the sales of their bridge cameras and P&S ones by 300 per cent", and that's in a free falling market?

Second-hand prices on Ebay do seem pretty soft as others in this thread have suggested. That's not a great sign really.

Yeah, the sky is falling. I keep hearing this story for decades.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Ricoh GR III Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +8 more
rwl408 Senior Member • Posts: 1,849
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

petreluk wrote:

Could well be but could you supply the reference for increased sales of cameras as distinct from the performance generally of their imaging division? I'm thinking this division might include more than cameras and that the figure aren't broken out, though perhaps they are.

You don't believe words of mouth? How dare you are! Sorry, I have to say it.  I would like to see those secretive numbers too.

DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 6,345
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

Yes S/H prices are falling for Pentax gear, but as far as I can see S/H prices are falling for everything, things that were selling two to three years ago are now half price, the S/H market in general is half dead!

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Dave's clichés

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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Veteran Member • Posts: 3,125
It can be the opposite
2

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people ..

The impression can be quite the contrary. There could be more Pentax cameras all around available, and more lenses too. That means, people are selling / changing old to get new Pentax cameras and some better lenses. Or they are getting rid of two mediocre lenses to get one new better lens.

It is ridiculous to analyse market just in one possible way of explaining something. Myself, if I had a K10 / K20/ K7 / Kx / K-r etc and even the K5, and some kit or mediocre lenses, I would be interested to step up my choices when buying a K5II or a K3. Cameras like K5II or K3 show every fault of mediocre lenses and to use kit lenses on them is sacrilege.

And how would I try to get rid of old kits and be happy even with a modest price obtained for them? Obviously, sell them on the eBay.

A. To new users of K30 / K50 / K500 plus kits lenses, that offer of mine would be uninteresting because they get their gear brand new and with a warranty. The Prices of new K50 etc are so low people pay less for brand new than I could viably ask for for my used equipment.

B. Then to many who have similar kits and lenses as I do, that offer would be uninteresting too.

So to whom I could possibly sell my second-hand gear when cameras as good as K50 are priced dirt cheap? That is the trouble of the entire second-hand market and in fact means Pentax production is well established that it can offer new gear for such a low price that makes my eBay offer irrelevant.

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Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.

asw66 Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

My reading of the market -- based purely on what I see on the 'webs, social media etc. is that Sony has made huge strides in mind share in the past year. Fuji is still pretty hot, and Olympus is well regarded.

Am I worried about the relative anonymity of Ricoh/Pentax? Not really. It seems to me that Ricoh have their act together, but it takes time to implement business strategies. The K3 was an early win, with its unique technologies and class-leading performance. Hopefully this is just a taste of what's to come.

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Model Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 3,895
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
1

jamesm007 wrote:
Never seen so many new people buying Pentax on this forum.

Hmmm... it seems a little quiet to me.

No more breathless unboxing videos. No clamouring to replace K-5 II's...

dSLRs just don't create, well, the same excitement as they once did. People snort at Nikon, and yawn at Canon, which can't be good for the overall market. I see fewer new Pentax users on DPR. dSLR's are so darned good, fewer people need to switch brands, or buy into the next point upgrade.

In my own case, I now use a GR for the majority of my shooting, especially street shooting, for convenience, discretion, and - yes - IQ. It's noticable that fewer people carry dSLR's in London, even tourists, so carrying one marks you out as a 'photog' more than it did.

Still love the K-5 II, but I don't use it for everything as I used to.

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Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,457
yep, articulated Screen....

I agree...Actually articulated screen alone is reason why I have now Sony SLT and NEX cameras. I can't understand why Pentax/Ricoh does not consider this an important feature. Now they have nice well working live view and focus peaking, but no...blaah...

(besides - it would also be relatively simple to implement, not rocket science)

Ari

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

Best regards

Holger

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- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

britcam
britcam Senior Member • Posts: 2,464
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
2

jamesm007 wrote:

britcam wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason is an Observation of the ebay offers the last months. I follow the offers of Pentax lenses on ebay since years and during the last weeks in Germany there are numerous offers of not just kit lenses which came with cameras during the last decades but also a lot of prime lenses - often entire Equipments with a lot of very nice lenses.

I can't offer any statistics but my impression is that many people leave the Pentax system for other systems right now.

I am waiting for a follow up model of the K3. The K3 is an interesting camera but the mirror flop problem should be solved and I think that there are innovations in the filed of photography which could be added to a follow up model. Even a K3ii or K3 super would be ice - please with articulated Screen.

Regarding the lenses offered on ebay: there is some motivation to make a bid for them - but to be honest: there are also thoughts about leaving the system and start something new.

Best regards

Holger

I see the same thing in both the UK and in France ... I watch eBay and forum classifieds quite a bit. Prices being achieved are lower, and there is much less interest these days in Pentax cameras and lenses that have previously been highly sought after, attracting good prices. Fine examples of DA and DA* lenses are just not selling at what I would call "proper" prices.

Pentax needs to up its game and restore some confidence, and soon ... In the meantime many will put their heads in the sand ... its normal.

I can literly pull up hundreds of posts just like yours. Did you buy a brand or a camera to take pics with? You can email Ricoh with what you think to try and help them out if you want.

The eBay & classifieds situation as I (and others) see it, is an "observation", no more, no less. If you prefer to ignore it, that's fine too. The fact is that we are not living in 2006. Times have moved on. As another poster said, buyers these days are looking at SONY, Fuji and perhaps to a lesser extent, Olympus. Read the Fuji forum and see how many Canikon shooters are selling up ... They won't be turning to Pentax - why should they? - "MF and world class APS dSLRs with image quality up to par. Morever the best APS all weather lens selection bar none" ... is that it? Where else is Ricoh / Pentax going? I'm sorry, but leaving MF aside, no one has a clue, nor do prospective DSLR buyers, and where is their incentive to buy into a system that itself has big question marks over SDM & mirror flapping ..

Many ads I see from Pentax sellers are from those saying they are moving to FF, or to MILC and selling their entire Pentax system.

As for your quip about taking pics with a "brand or camera", to me, a camera is just a tool to get the image results I am looking for, and I select the one that suits the situation.

For myself, I use both Fuji and Pentax, depending on circumstances. In fact yesterday afternoon I was out with an elderly FA 24-90 on my K5IIs. Great IQ & focal range, with the usual floppy zoom. Then in the evening, I used my Fuji X-E2 with 35mm f1.4. Does Pentax have anything that can compete with the XF 35 f1.4 for low light indoor work..?

PENTAX

FUJI

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Regards
Rich S (britcam)

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Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,457
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

britcam wrote:

jamesm007 wrote:

britcam wrote:Then in the evening, I used my Fuji X-E2 with 35mm f1.4. Does Pentax have anything that can compete with the XF 35 f1.4 for low light indoor work..?

Of course...Their great & legendary Pentax SMC-FA 31mm f/1.8 AL Limited!!

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- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,614
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

Dear all,

I have Pentax Equipment since more than 30 years. I like my K5 but I am worried about the future of Pentax/Ricoh.

Yawn. Ricoh Imaging reported increased sales.

Alex

Could well be but could you supply the reference for increased sales of cameras as distinct from the performance generally of their imaging division? I'm thinking this division might include more than cameras and that the figure aren't broken out, though perhaps they are.

You won't find any such figures. All there is - they're talking about "increase in sales of digital cameras".

Note that industrial cameras & surveillance are in a different division. Ricoh Imaging is just Pentax and Ricoh's camera division combined - and it's grouped into Other, together with their lease and financing business.

Second, while it's good news if Ricoh are indeed increasing the sales of their cameras, it doesn't make a great deal of difference to an individual buyer, or to a market segment of buyers, if the increased activity is in an area of part of the world which holds no interest for them. If Pentax increased the sales of their bridge cameras and P&S ones by 300 per cent, just for example, but let their support at the K3 and Limited lens level go fallow, then most of those posting on this board would be off elsewhere.

Huh? Do you know what cameras they launched? How on Earth would they increase "the sales of their bridge cameras and P&S ones by 300 per cent", and that's in a free falling market?

Second-hand prices on Ebay do seem pretty soft as others in this thread have suggested. That's not a great sign really.

Yeah, the sky is falling. I keep hearing this story for decades.

Alex

Hmmn, talk without figures is just self-promotion, although I'd be surprised if the figures weren't better since Ricoh have put a great deal into sorting out the business. But if you read my post I said "just for example". I guess that doesn't fit with your plan ... Or, to put it another way, Ricoh are free to decide that the future of their camera division lies in re-orienting the business to cater to markets in Asia and the Far East much more than has been the case so far. This would very likely influence the mix in their portfolio of products and might make them a less attractive brand to the majority who post on this forum. It's hardly a contentious idea, in fact not even a surprising one were Ricoh to feel that they can make better headway against their competitors in countries outside the the West where Canon, Nikon and co are so entrenched. The world changes all the time; why should folks not expect Ricoh to change too?

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britcam
britcam Senior Member • Posts: 2,464
Re: Pentax inn need of the big next step

Ari Aikomus wrote:

britcam wrote:

jamesm007 wrote:

britcam wrote:Then in the evening, I used my Fuji X-E2 with 35mm f1.4. Does Pentax have anything that can compete with the XF 35 f1.4 for low light indoor work..?

Of course...Their great & legendary Pentax SMC-FA 31mm f/1.8 AL Limited!!

Of course - and I used to have one!  I'm not that sure that Pentax IQ at 6400 could compete with the Fuji though ...  even with that magnificent piece of glass.

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Regards
Rich S (britcam)

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