Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

Started Jun 25, 2014 | Questions
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ksarkar77 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

Hello All,

I have recently purchase a Sony A7. I was comparing it against my beloved Nex5n and I noticed a strange shutter speed behavior. I was shooting the same subject under same lighting condition with respective kit lenses wide open, i.e, 18-55 on Nex5n @F 3.5 and 28-70 on A7 @ F 3.5.

Here is the shutter speed and other details.

Nex5N: 18 mm, ISO 3200, Shutter Speed 1/50, F 3.5

A7: 28 mm, ISO 3200, Shutter Speed 1/20, F 3.5

I was expecting that A7 would record higher or at least the same shutter speed compared to Nex5n as Nex5n is shooting 18 mm @f 3.5 (27 mm f 5.2 on full frame equivalent after considering the crop factor).

Is my Sony A7 broken? Or am I missing something?

I have started learning f stops, shutter speed and crop factors and so on very recently, so if it is very silly question then please forgive my ignorance.

Thanks

Kuntal

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andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,643
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

If the photos are taken at those settings are they the same brightness?

If they are the same brightness then the A7 is overrating its ISO relative to the 5N.
If the A7 image is a lot brighter it is a difference in metering (area used / algorithm / calibration)

Andrew

ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

andrewD2 wrote:

If the photos are taken at those settings are they the same brightness?

If they are the same brightness then the A7 is overrating its ISO relative to the 5N.
If the A7 image is a lot brighter it is a difference in metering (area used / algorithm / calibration)

Andrew

Hi, I am not sure about that. I did not see them side by side on the monitor. I assumed that both camera should expose similarly.

Ok, I will take couple of pictures tonight and post it here.

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,235
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

If your scene has mixed bright and dark spots, you may also want to switch to spot metering to ensure the two cameras are using the same point and light intensity on which to calculate exposure.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

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Canon PowerShot G9 Nikon D200 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha 7 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G +2 more
ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

SQLGuy wrote:

If your scene has mixed bright and dark spots, you may also want to switch to spot metering to ensure the two cameras are using the same point and light intensity on which to calculate exposure.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

Thank you SQL guy for the advice. My cameras were in matrix metering mode. I will switch them to spot metering and get some samples.

Thanks

Kuntal

andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,643
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

ksarkar77 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

If your scene has mixed bright and dark spots, you may also want to switch to spot metering to ensure the two cameras are using the same point and light intensity on which to calculate exposure.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

Thank you SQL guy for the advice. My cameras were in matrix metering mode. I will switch them to spot metering and get some samples.

Thanks

Kuntal

The simpler way is to set both to the same exposure manually "M Mode" and see if they match.

The other possible is that the A7 lens vignettes so badly it is losing more light than the 18-55.

Andrew

ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

andrewD2 wrote:

ksarkar77 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

If your scene has mixed bright and dark spots, you may also want to switch to spot metering to ensure the two cameras are using the same point and light intensity on which to calculate exposure.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

Thank you SQL guy for the advice. My cameras were in matrix metering mode. I will switch them to spot metering and get some samples.

Thanks

Kuntal

The simpler way is to set both to the same exposure manually "M Mode" and see if they match.

The other possible is that the A7 lens vignettes so badly it is losing more light than the 18-55.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Can you please be little bit more elaborate? Did you mean that on M mode, set the same shutter speed, ISO, F stops and then compare the brightness of the pictures?

About the Vignetting, did you mean that I have a bad copy of lens on my A7?

Thanks

andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,643
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

ksarkar77 wrote:

andrewD2 wrote:

ksarkar77 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

If your scene has mixed bright and dark spots, you may also want to switch to spot metering to ensure the two cameras are using the same point and light intensity on which to calculate exposure.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

Thank you SQL guy for the advice. My cameras were in matrix metering mode. I will switch them to spot metering and get some samples.

Thanks

Kuntal

The simpler way is to set both to the same exposure manually "M Mode" and see if they match.

The other possible is that the A7 lens vignettes so badly it is losing more light than the 18-55.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Can you please be little bit more elaborate? Did you mean that on M mode, set the same shutter speed, ISO, F stops and then compare the brightness of the pictures?

About the Vignetting, did you mean that I have a bad copy of lens on my A7?

Thanks

Yes, eliminate the possibility of the cameras metering differently by setting the same ISO, exposure time and aperture.
I'd not worry about your lens, if it vignettes strongly it is likely to do it on them all. Wait and see the results of the test first.

Andrew

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,137
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question
1

ksarkar77 wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Can you please be little bit more elaborate? Did you mean that on M mode, set the same shutter speed, ISO, F stops and then compare the brightness of the pictures?

About the Vignetting, did you mean that I have a bad copy of lens on my A7?

Thanks

Check settings like DRO (dynamic range optimizer) as that intentionally underexposes and boosts the exposure of the shadows to protect highlights.

For M mode, set both cameras to M and do the same exposure for both and look at the resulting images. Brightness should be the same.

For example, it might be 1/100 at ISO 100 f/7.1 the resulting image should be the same brightness on both cameras.

In terms of equivalence if you want truly similar photos:

18mm f/3.5 1/100 at ISO 100 on the 5N should look like:

28mm f/5.6 1/100 at ISO 250 on the A7.

Eric

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ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

viking79 wrote:

ksarkar77 wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Can you please be little bit more elaborate? Did you mean that on M mode, set the same shutter speed, ISO, F stops and then compare the brightness of the pictures?

About the Vignetting, did you mean that I have a bad copy of lens on my A7?

Thanks

Check settings like DRO (dynamic range optimizer) as that intentionally underexposes and boosts the exposure of the shadows to protect highlights.

For M mode, set both cameras to M and do the same exposure for both and look at the resulting images. Brightness should be the same.

For example, it might be 1/100 at ISO 100 f/7.1 the resulting image should be the same brightness on both cameras.

In terms of equivalence if you want truly similar photos:

18mm f/3.5 1/100 at ISO 100 on the 5N should look like:

28mm f/5.6 1/100 at ISO 250 on the A7.

Eric

Thank you both to Eric and Andrew. I will do the test and post the result here.

Thanks

Elandreth Regular Member • Posts: 196
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

viking79 wrote:

In terms of equivalence if you want truly similar photos:

18mm f/3.5 1/100 at ISO 100 on the 5N should look like:

28mm f/5.6 1/100 at ISO 250 on the A7.

Eric

Why is the ISO different between the two cameras in your equivalence example?  Is it based on pixel density?

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AlphaLux
AlphaLux Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question
2

Guys, you don't calculate crop factor and equivalency of f-stops when it comes to light gathering capabilities. Only in depth of field comparisons. As far as exposures go, the f-stops will be the same
--
Brand new Tumblr dedicated to my life through the Sony a7
http://alphaetlux.tumblr.com/

ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

AlphaLux wrote:

Guys, you don't calculate crop factor and equivalency of f-stops when it comes to light gathering capabilities. Only in depth of field comparisons. As far as exposures go, the f-stops will be the same
--
Brand new Tumblr dedicated to my life through the Sony a7
http://alphaetlux.tumblr.com/

AlphaLux, I do not get it. Is it not that light gathering ability is more on full frame, hence should get higher shutter speed ?

I did some test today as per the suggestion from the other posters. Manual mode, F 3.5, ISO 3200, Spot Metering, straight JPEG out of camera. Still A7 is registering slower shutter speed compared to 5N.  What is going on here guys???

A7, ISO 3200, F 3.5, Shutter Speed is 1/8

5N, ISO 3200, F 3.5, Shutter Speed is 1/10

forpetessake
forpetessake Senior Member • Posts: 4,892
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

AlphaLux wrote:

Guys, you don't calculate crop factor and equivalency of f-stops when it comes to light gathering capabilities. Only in depth of field comparisons. As far as exposures go, the f-stops will be the same

That is incorrect, the DOF and amount of light are affected to the same degree by cropping. You need to multiply f-stop by the crop factor to get equivalent settings on both cameras. The ISO can be set on auto, it doesn't really matter.

ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

I am posting it on the main thread although I have posted the result on the child thread.

I did some test today as per the suggestion from the other posters. Manual mode, F 3.5, ISO 3200, Spot Metering, straight JPEG out of camera. Still A7 is registering slower shutter speed compared to 5N. What is going on here guys???

A7: Shutter speed is 1/8

5N: Shutter speed is 1/10

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,235
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

That's a pretty good comparison, but you should also match the white balance between the two.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD); A3000 converted to IR.

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Nikon D200 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha 7 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G +2 more
andrewD2 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,643
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

ksarkar77 wrote:

AlphaLux wrote:

Guys, you don't calculate crop factor and equivalency of f-stops when it comes to light gathering capabilities. Only in depth of field comparisons. As far as exposures go, the f-stops will be the same
--
Brand new Tumblr dedicated to my life through the Sony a7
http://alphaetlux.tumblr.com/

AlphaLux, I do not get it. Is it not that light gathering ability is more on full frame, hence should get higher shutter speed ?

I did some test today as per the suggestion from the other posters. Manual mode, F 3.5, ISO 3200, Spot Metering, straight JPEG out of camera. Still A7 is registering slower shutter speed compared to 5N. What is going on here guys???

You should get the same exposure times.
Full frame does gather more total light per second at the same aperture but the same light PER AREA.
They are not far off, ISO rating slightly different, lens vignetting, T stop of the lens are possible reasons but they need to be shot at the same white balance first (raw might be better).

Andrew

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

ksarkar77 wrote:

Can you please be little bit more elaborate? Did you mean that on M mode, set the same shutter speed, ISO, F stops and then compare the brightness of the pictures?

That would tell you if the shutter speeds and f stops are matching.

My advice would be to stop worrying about it. The question is whether both cameras can take good photos.

About the Vignetting, did you mean that I have a bad copy of lens on my A7?

Vignetting will be the same for all lenses of the same design. It doesn't vary from copy to copy as decentring does.

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

ksarkar77 wrote:

I am posting it on the main thread although I have posted the result on the child thread.

I did some test today as per the suggestion from the other posters. Manual mode, F 3.5, ISO 3200, Spot Metering, straight JPEG out of camera. Still A7 is registering slower shutter speed compared to 5N. What is going on here guys???

What is going on is that you are fretting over trivial differences. There is no practical difference between 1/8 and 1/10.

If it was 1/8 and 1/100, then it would be interesting.

Bear in mind that lenses of different design transmit slightly different amounts of light at the same f number. This is why cinematographers use T stops. I doubt if T stops are necessary now we have digital photography, which allows easy adjustment of exposures in post processing.

ksarkar77 OP Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Nex5n Owner bought an A7, shutter speed question

D Cox wrote:

ksarkar77 wrote:

I am posting it on the main thread although I have posted the result on the child thread.

I did some test today as per the suggestion from the other posters. Manual mode, F 3.5, ISO 3200, Spot Metering, straight JPEG out of camera. Still A7 is registering slower shutter speed compared to 5N. What is going on here guys???

What is going on is that you are fretting over trivial differences. There is no practical difference between 1/8 and 1/10.

If it was 1/8 and 1/100, then it would be interesting.

Bear in mind that lenses of different design transmit slightly different amounts of light at the same f number. This is why cinematographers use T stops. I doubt if T stops are necessary now we have digital photography, which allows easy adjustment of exposures in post processing.

Hi D Cox,

I was thinking that I would get double the shutter speed compared to 5 N because full frame

supposed to have 1 stop advantage over APSC. So, whatever shutter speed I am getting is pretty much correct?

Thanks

Kuntal

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