Loss of GPS in the NEW A77II

Started Jun 24, 2014 | Discussions
Allan Olesen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,391
Re: GPS

dr jim wrote:

What I find frustrating about these "feature discussions" is that so many people seem to think that if they find a feature useless, then it is indeed useless.

Exactly.

"My imagination is so limited that I can't see the reason for wanting this feature. And I am so proud of my limited imagination that I boast about it whenever I have the chance."

Allan Olesen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,391
Re: GPS
1

tbcass wrote:

You are right about all of that but there has to be some reason why Sony removed it.

The same Sony who went back to a flash shoe from 1913 without getting any real compatibility with other 1913 equipment, and at the same time failed to make an adapter which could securely hold the non-1913 flashes attached to the camera?

Yes, they probably have their reasons for what they do....

Allan Olesen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,391
Re: Loss of GPS in the NEW A77II

VirtualMirage wrote:


Unfortunately, despite it having its own on/off setting that can be adjusted even when the flash is set to off, it will only work if the flash is not disabled.

I am not sure exactly what you were trying to do with what equipment. But the focus assist lamp on my Minolta 3600 HS(D) will work when mounted on my a77, even when I have turned the flash off with the on/off button on the rear of the flash.

Allan Olesen Veteran Member • Posts: 3,391
Re: In camera GPS convenient but incomplete

K E Hoffman wrote:

It will update the clock.. I doubt very much it updates the timezone.

When I travel to another timezone, my a77 automatically set the time to the local time.

That would involve the storing and updating of detailed geographical boundaries etc.

If it does not have this information, it will not be able to set the time to local time.

GPS uses UTC time..

Yes, but irrelevant here. We are talking about the time which is stored in EXIF and shown in the camera.

nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: GPS

cplunk wrote:

nandbytes wrote:

dr jim wrote:

The code is written so it costs nothing

Not true. The amount of integration testing that goes into these things are phenominal. Even if the code is written it needs to be integrated within the new camera/body/software which mean more and more testing. Testing isn't cheap especially if it requires testing on such specialised product line.

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And it costs them new sales. People that are willing to upgrade for THAT feature, but have no other reason to buy the new camera.

That's money in THEIR pocket, they aren't a charity. And they are pretty consistent in not revising old camera firmware with new features.

well either people in Sony don't realise that or they feel it costs more than its worth it.

I am not passing judgement, just saying even if you have something already coded it still costs money to integrate it and test it for production. dr jim said it "costs nothing" which isn't true was all I was pointing out.

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VirtualMirage
VirtualMirage Veteran Member • Posts: 3,922
Re: Loss of GPS in the NEW A77II

Allan Olesen wrote:

VirtualMirage wrote:

Unfortunately, despite it having its own on/off setting that can be adjusted even when the flash is set to off, it will only work if the flash is not disabled.

I am not sure exactly what you were trying to do with what equipment. But the focus assist lamp on my Minolta 3600 HS(D) will work when mounted on my a77, even when I have turned the flash off with the on/off button on the rear of the flash.

If you reread the post, I explain with what equipment. I was testing out the built in focus assist on both my A77 and A77II. The quote you took from my post above was referencing the A77II, not the A77.

On the A77, the built in focus assist WILL work even if the flash is turned off. On the A77II, the built in focus assist WILL NOT work if the flash is turned off.

External flashes are a different story and I don't doubt that I can get the focus assist on my HVL-F56AM to work on the A77II without need to the flash to be turned on, it worked on my A77 and A700 without needing the flash. I would double check this, but I don't have a flash adapter yet.

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McQuestion
McQuestion Contributing Member • Posts: 954
Re: GPS and other lost features, Goodbye MR

Hear, hear.

It's funny, because I was just thinking about this exact same thing related to MR mode. I've just gotten interested in using this and posted in both the E and A forums for suggestions, but everyone seems to be busy explaining why their camera is better than the less expensive model or vice versa. Based on the sound of crickets chirping, my conclusion is there aren't many people who use MR mode. Perhaps Sony should eliminate it. It got me to thinking that maybe I should post a thread entitled "MR Mode to be Eliminated on Future Sony's" to see if that might draw some kind of response.

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cplunk Senior Member • Posts: 1,818
Re: GPS

Allan Olesen wrote:

tbcass wrote:

You are right about all of that but there has to be some reason why Sony removed it.

The same Sony who went back to a flash shoe from 1913 without getting any real compatibility with other 1913 equipment, and at the same time failed to make an adapter which could securely hold the non-1913 flashes attached to the camera?

Yes, they probably have their reasons for what they do....

The created the new shoe to be increase it's capabilities and have new accessories like shoe mounted GPS.

Except, the haven't created many of these new accessories, just removing the capabilities they might have from the new cameras.

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dr jim Veteran Member • Posts: 5,729
Re: GPS

OK, I'll give you that.  Nothing may have been hyperbole, but continuing an exhausting feature in a new model certainly can't be anywhere near as expensive as adding a whole new feature (wi fi). They somehow found the cash laying around to keep every other feature on the camera (well, except for the AF assist light)

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dr jim Veteran Member • Posts: 5,729
Re: GPS

The code should already be there. It would just be need to be modified for the new BionzX.  The hardware is certainly no mystery to them.

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nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: GPS

dr jim wrote:

OK, I'll give you that. Nothing may have been hyperbole, but continuing an exhausting feature in a new model certainly can't be anywhere near as expensive as adding a whole new feature (wi fi). They somehow found the cash laying around to keep every other feature on the camera (well, except for the AF assist light)

adding wifi or GPS I imagine probably cost around the same-ish as they had both tech. Like I said in my earlier thread I am not passing judgement, just saying it doesn't cost nothing.

To me it seems like a choice between GPS or wifi, could be due to physical constrains? there is only so much you can fit in a body lol.

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dr jim Veteran Member • Posts: 5,729
Re: GPS

Just checked. the Cybershot HX400V contains both GBS and Wi Fi, so....... That's a $400 camera

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nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: GPS

dr jim wrote:

Just checked. the Cybershot HX400V contains both GBS and Wi Fi, so....... That's a $400 camera

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yeah but its distinctly missing everything else A77m2 provides lol.

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ajff Regular Member • Posts: 413
Re: GPS

tbcass wrote:

....but just in case I do leave it off as I don't find it particularly useful. Maybe if I was a World traveler I'd feel differently.

Precisely.
For those of us who, for better or for worse, are obliged to be "world travelers" it's a real bummer!

Rather remnds me of when Sony removed "nightvision" and "nightframing" going from the F828 to R1. Or Concorde, used to be able to cross in 3 1/2 hours. no more.

even if a superior product, If ain't profitable, forget it!

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A.J.
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dr jim Veteran Member • Posts: 5,729
Re: GPS

Of course.  My point was that apparently there is no physical or technical reason that a camera can't have both. I thought that possibly there were "radio" interferences between the two but that doesn't seem to be the case, The other possibility was that there was no room in the body for both, yet the A77II is physically, even larger than this body. Obviously I am comparing apples and oranges but it convinces me that Sony could do it if they chose to.

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nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: GPS

dr jim wrote:

Of course. My point was that apparently there is no physical or technical reason that a camera can't have both. I thought that possibly there were "radio" interferences between the two but that doesn't seem to be the case,

well my phone can use both lol.

The other possibility was that there was no room in the body for both, yet the A77II is physically, even larger than this body.

It may be larger than the other body but it also has more stuff in it than the other body. Like I said the other body doesn't have everything A77m2 has in it.

Obviously I am comparing apples and oranges but it convinces me that Sony could do it if they chose to.

yep, I believe so too. Nothing is impossible and GPS modules aren't particularly big. I was a bit surprised it was gone.

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K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 5,101
Re: In camera GPS convenient but incomplete

cplunk wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

cplunk wrote:

Been there and done that, much prefer the A77 / A99 in camera GPS.

These only work as well as the clocks are sync'd, which becomes an issue especially if you are moving fast enough.

So if you get one of these GPS loggers, make sure you have a way to sync the camera time with it.

And if you go to the other side of the world and don't update the timezone, it gets interesting. With the GPS on the A77 / A99, the timezone updates itself, and sets the clock.

It will update the clock.. I doubt very much it updates the timezone. That would involve the storing and updating of detailed geographical boundaries etc. GPS uses UTC time.. infact the GPX log files are all encoded in UTC with a simple time zone offset in the file that can be edited say if you updated your camera time zone but then didn't update your GPS timezone. Then you change one number and import the file.

It does.

Turn the GPS time correction on and reset the "Area Setting", then go outside and wait for the GPS to lock.

OK.. will try that.. wonder if its global or just key markets.. or if GPS system is updated to send info on that.

Thanks

When I start using a GPS device.. I will probably just set my camera time to UTC and call it good. I am not ready to shoot globally even if doing so from a fast moving jet crossing over AZ or Indian..

There is a good article here about it.. http://mulita.com/blog/?p=4516

On the other hand... phone based GPS can pull TIME zone off the cell tower network IF you have a phone service account which you don't need to use the GPS.

I totally understand why and how some people use GPS and that is important. But is it important enough to adapt.. Sony should offer an ugly GPS add on like Canon and Nikon.. but I wouldn't touch it because the alternatives are better.

I don't like the alternatives, and yes, I already know how they all work and have used them before. I have a Sony GPS-CS1, and used it traveling before I bought the A77. I always had issues with it, and was glad to see the GPS built into the A77, one of the reasons I bought it.

Aside from the timezone issue, which always screws with me when it GMT + more than 8 (being in US Pacific time, GMT -8, I always seem to get confused trying to add a day), there is the synchronization issue. Camera clocks aren't terribly accurate on their own, and on a train ride (third world style, with open windows) or in the back of a truck (put a bench on each side and now it's a bus), you can move pretty far in a short period of time, shifting that position off quite a bit.

FACT based on everything I know in the camera market.

We will all be upgrading to DSLR Style cameras without GPS.. its not built in on any new models that I can see.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

I don't have to adapt, it's a camera, I can resist, and not upgrade. Saves me some money, keeps one feature I want to have. Decreases Sony's sales, if only by a highly insignificant amount. A camera like the A99 oughta work for many, many years if taken care of. I'd be satisfied if they offered some shoe mount GPS, and might even buy it to go with my NEX-6, if they have the firmware on that to work with it.

That is where we are different.   If it looks like any of the other shoe mount GPSs I don't want it.  If they do a small one.. I would look at it.. but still like the GPS with Voice tags as a tool I am thinking of getting even with the A77.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 5,101
Re: In camera GPS convenient but incomplete

Allan Olesen wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

It will update the clock.. I doubt very much it updates the timezone.

When I travel to another timezone, my a77 automatically set the time to the local time.

Curious how it calculates this, and how accurate it is in some areas near zones etc.

That would involve the storing and updating of detailed geographical boundaries etc.

If it does not have this information, it will not be able to set the time to local time.

The camera requires you to set the time yourself the first time according to the manual.  SO my assumption was and it would work.. that it would easily correct small drifts in time without knowing timezone.. but since some people have confirm it does this cool

GPS uses UTC time..

Yes, but irrelevant here. We are talking about the time which is stored in EXIF and shown in the camera.

Not irrelevant.. as a matter of fact I can see many reasons to encode UTC.  Can I keep the camera from changing time zone on me?

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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sybersitizen Veteran Member • Posts: 8,387
Re: In camera GPS convenient but incomplete

K E Hoffman wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

It will update the clock.. I doubt very much it updates the timezone.

When I travel to another timezone, my a77 automatically set the time to the local time.

Curious how it calculates this, and how accurate it is in some areas near zones etc.

That would involve the storing and updating of detailed geographical boundaries etc.

If it does not have this information, it will not be able to set the time to local time.

The camera requires you to set the time yourself the first time according to the manual. SO my assumption was and it would work.. that it would easily correct small drifts in time without knowing timezone.. but since some people have confirm it does this cool

GPS uses UTC time..

Yes, but irrelevant here. We are talking about the time which is stored in EXIF and shown in the camera.

Not irrelevant.. as a matter of fact I can see many reasons to encode UTC. Can I keep the camera from changing time zone on me?

Now you want it to NOT track time zone changes? Well, okay. UTC is just another name for Greenwich time. Tell your camera (you have the A77, right?) you live in England, set the clock to Greenwich time, then turn off GPS Auto Time Correction. That oughta work. But if it drifts, I assume you'll have to reset it manually. (I personally have had no opportunity yet to take the A77 out of my own time zone.)

K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 5,101
Re: In camera GPS convenient but incomplete

sybersitizen wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

It will update the clock.. I doubt very much it updates the timezone.

When I travel to another timezone, my a77 automatically set the time to the local time.

Curious how it calculates this, and how accurate it is in some areas near zones etc.

That would involve the storing and updating of detailed geographical boundaries etc.

If it does not have this information, it will not be able to set the time to local time.

The camera requires you to set the time yourself the first time according to the manual. SO my assumption was and it would work.. that it would easily correct small drifts in time without knowing timezone.. but since some people have confirm it does this cool

GPS uses UTC time..

Yes, but irrelevant here. We are talking about the time which is stored in EXIF and shown in the camera.

Not irrelevant.. as a matter of fact I can see many reasons to encode UTC. Can I keep the camera from changing time zone on me?

Now you want it to NOT track timezone changes? Well, okay. UTC is just another name for Greenwich time. Tell your camera (you have the A77, right?) you live in England, set the clock to Greenwich time, then turn off GPS Auto Time Correction. That oughta work.

Now you don't want the GPS at all?  Well Okay..  What I am saying is that if the GPS time correction is a feature one values, but you want to use UTC (trust me there are plenty of reasons for this having to do this including the fact that some organizations use it or to coordinated work done globally etc.  Say photos of solar event etc.  IE Sony should have give you location correction off..

ITs not a giant issue.. but it could be for some kinds of work.. You would not be someone who discounts someone else's value of a feature would you?   Note in several posts I have clearly said I see why people value GPS.. so why not also see why some would want GPS and UTC?  Its pretty common with astronomy people, radio operators, pilots and military.. etc.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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