Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

Started Jun 19, 2014 | Discussions
DocetLector Regular Member • Posts: 358
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
2

I am very sorry but the title of this thread is stupid....which coffin do you mean?

I am not a Leica user now, I had a M6 back in the film aera and didn`t like it very much -  changing film was a pain and I was not able to see the 28mm frame in the viewfinder because I was wearing glasses at that time.

But this comparison doesn`t say anything to me, I don`t know if a tripod was used and the focus was properly set and the PP was well done.

And still I like the Leica image more - it looks more natural to me - the Sony has a more digital and oversaturated look like all Sony`s. But this is a matter of taste.

Like most people I also cannot afford to buy into the Leica system but because of that I am not bashing this company .

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Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,130
More like Sony's coffin
5

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.

The Leica lens is a 50mm, while the Sony is a 55mm. As half a century proves, a tolerable 50 beats the best 55, every time.

Phorographers like "normal" lenses, where the focal length is about equal to the image diagonal. For the 35mm format, that's 43.3mm. Lenses around that focal length are easy to shoot, they're "transparent", with a very natural coverage.

Fast normals are difficult to build.

It's easier to build good  fast lenses around 1.3x normal than true normal. So, the camera makers did what was "easier" in the late 50s and early 60s and make their f1.4 offerings 55 or 58mm lenses. The photographers, naturally, said "screw you". So, the camera makers tried 50mm. They were more expensive than the 55 or 58mm lenses, and they didn't perform as well, but photographers liked them better.

And the rest is history.

A class it appears you, Steve Huff, and Sony have all failed.

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darklamp Senior Member • Posts: 3,567
What part of "crazy comparison" did you miss ? (nt)

No text.

Lightpath48 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,916
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

FrancoD wrote:

how is one photo going to sink a company like Leica ?

Photography isn't just about sharpness,bokeh, resolution and all of that, if you are not just a pixel peeping geek.

There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera (could be a Leica...) that is the camera that one should use.

No, I don't own a Leica.

Ask a Maserati (whatever...) driver why he drives that car.

It isn't about fuel consumption or speed , it's the joy of driving that particular car.

No, I don't own a Maserati.

Precisely why I love my Fujifilm X-S1. Not the best IQ, but fantastic ergonomics/ handling, and lots of nice external buttons for customizing on the fly.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 17,676
I don't get it
3

Steve writes:

The Sony surprised me here!

Why ? A CZ prime on a state of the art FF sensor produces a sharp picture ... what's there to be surprised at ?

Anyway, the A7 might be a sort-of-alternative to Leica for a few people who were never going to buy a Leica anyway. And it might offer an affordable digital body to people who have old Leica kits, but who were reluctant to spend $7k+ on an M body.

But Leica really has no competition. I'm not saying it's better than anything else; just that some people are going to buy it and a lot of people aren't, and there's not much that anyone other than Leica is going to do to change that.

EvokeEmotion Contributing Member • Posts: 998
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

EvokeEmotion wrote:

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

How sad. It means either you have a job you hate, a hobby you don't enjoy, or equipment you don't like using.

Sad? Not at all. I care about the image I'm taking, not a piece of cold hard machinery used to do it. It is people who are worrying about how the camera feels in their hands that are sad.

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EvokeEmotion Contributing Member • Posts: 998
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
1

EvokeEmotion wrote:

how is one photo going to sink a company like Leica ?

Photography isn't just about sharpness,bokeh, resolution and all of that, if you are not just a pixel peeping geek.

There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera (could be a Leica...) that is the camera that one should use.

No, I don't own a Leica.

Ask a Maserati (whatever...) driver why he drives that car.

It isn't about fuel consumption or speed , it's the joy of driving that particular car.

No, I don't own a Maserati.

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

I guess you must have a terrible camera? I guess the advantage of Leica is that it only covers your right eye and doesn't seat on your face. No, I do not own one, but I can see it's advantages.

Do I care about sharpness of lenses? Nope, they do not make good photographs. All I know is that there were many great photos made 30+ years ago and it's still better than anything on this website.

Sharpness and metrics are for the people who can't take a good photo and they need a way to justify their hobby of being camera and lens collectors IMHO.

"Sharpness and metrics are for the people who can't take a good photo and they need a way to justify their hobby of being camera and lens collectors IMHO."

Do you see me mentioning sharpness or metrics? People exhibit their images in the galleries, not the cameras they use. An emotion evoking image takes skill, knowledge, experience and perhaps some luck. But anyone willing to sell a kidney can get their hands on a 'feel good in the hands' Leica. Where's the pride and glory in that?

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HussH Junior Member • Posts: 34
No nail, Leica is the best. Whether you can afford it is another issue
1

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/comparing-rangefinder-and-slr-50mm-lenses-version-0-7

Tested on an Image Master Optical bench.  Against Zeiss Otus, Sigma Art etc.

Leica APO clearly the best. And the Leica Summilux and Summicron are up there too.

Whether you can afford it is another issue.  I can't, and I'm good with that.  But it seems to me that these posts are started by people who can't, and are not good with that.

Toccata47 Senior Member • Posts: 2,800
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

What is most interesting to me is the reaction from posters. It seems resolution and sharpness are less preferable to most posters than color saturation and out of focus texture.

Most posters seem to also have a distaste for leica. It would have been more interesting if Huff had posted blind samples. Barring that, he could have easily matched the samples for focus and balance.

DaveOl
DaveOl Veteran Member • Posts: 3,191
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
1

If someone was giving me the camera and lens, I would rather have the Leica.  Since no one is going to give it to me, I would rather buy the Sony A7 and Sony/Zeiss lens.

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tex Veteran Member • Posts: 7,172
Thanks for the lesson. Actually it's weirdly affirming....
1

I always had this weird feeling that lenses in the '50's (in 35mm terms....) seemed slightly off to me---sorta "tight".  I didn't know why, but the few times I used something nearer 40, the better it "felt" to me visually.  I could never explain it, and people I mentioned this to looked at me funny....

So, your comment actually has made me feel better today (I woke up felling cr@ppy...).

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AlbertInFrance
AlbertInFrance Senior Member • Posts: 6,849
Re: Thanks for the lesson. Actually it's weirdly affirming....

tex wrote:

I always had this weird feeling that lenses in the '50's (in 35mm terms....) seemed slightly off to me---sorta "tight". I didn't know why, but the few times I used something nearer 40, the better it "felt" to me visually. I could never explain it, and people I mentioned this to looked at me funny....

Interesting. My first (1963-67 IIRC) 35mm camera had a 45mm fixed lens. The number of times I found myself cropping really hard made me realise that I'm more an 85mm kind of guy.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,590
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

EvokeEmotion wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

How sad. It means either you have a job you hate, a hobby you don't enjoy, or equipment you don't like using.

Sad? Not at all. I care about the image I'm taking, not a piece of cold hard machinery used to do it. It is people who are worrying about how the camera feels in their hands that are sad.

Each to his / her own.  But surely you can appreciate that there some (perhaps even many) people who get pleasure from using and owning beautifully crafted equipment?  Whether that translates into better photographs is perhaps irrelevant - after all I'm a pretty average driver and could probably never get the best out of some of the cars I own but it doesn't stop me enjoying them.  Same with cameras, golf clubs, etc., etc.

Chikoo
Chikoo Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

Maybe.

Maybe this will push Leica to develop a lens with cleaner sharper focus and a better creamier bokeh than this one.

The race is ALWAYS on.

bosjohn21
bosjohn21 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,477
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

the range finder optics are also noticeably brighter than a dslr so are very good in very low light. And if your right eyed you wont squish your nose

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eyeswideshut Regular Member • Posts: 320
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

One picture from Steve Huff? Pretty thin evidence. You must want that nail in Leica's coffin pretty badly.

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eyeswideshut

Ontario Gone
Ontario Gone Senior Member • Posts: 4,183
Re: Thanks for the lesson. Actually it's weirdly affirming....

tex wrote:

I always had this weird feeling that lenses in the '50's (in 35mm terms....) seemed slightly off to me---sorta "tight". I didn't know why, but the few times I used something nearer 40, the better it "felt" to me visually. I could never explain it, and people I mentioned this to looked at me funny....

So, your comment actually has made me feel better today (I woke up felling cr@ppy...).

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"I would like to see photography make people despise painting until something else will make photography unbearable." Marcel Duchamp

I as well. I have a 20mm F1.7 (40 equiv) on my MFT cam, i much prefer it's FOV for a walk around than any of the 25s. This lens is very sharp, it's very small and light, and i only paid $275 for it. With that being said it has some drawbacks like it won't work with C-AF, it's only F1.7, and it's slightly slower to lock than the faster options. Still, i prefer the FOV so i sold my 25 and kept this one.

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bosjohn21
bosjohn21 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,477
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
1

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Sharpness and metrics are for the people who can't take a good photo and they need a way to justify their hobby of being camera and lens collectors IMHO.

But anyone willing to sell a kidney can get their hands on a 'feel good in the hands' Leica. Where's the pride and glory in that?

I was with you right up to here. I checked carefully and I still have both kidneys.  I think it is a tad gratuitous but I understand your point just because you can buy an expensive camera doesn't ipso facto make you a better photographer. However there is nothing less legitimate about enjoying collecting or buying and selling etc. who are you to say that the only folks with any legitimacy are those who make great images.

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Ontario Gone
Ontario Gone Senior Member • Posts: 4,183
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

bosjohn21 wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Sharpness and metrics are for the people who can't take a good photo and they need a way to justify their hobby of being camera and lens collectors IMHO.

But anyone willing to sell a kidney can get their hands on a 'feel good in the hands' Leica. Where's the pride and glory in that?

I was with you right up to here. I checked carefully and I still have both kidneys. I think it is a tad gratuitous but I understand your point just because you can buy an expensive camera doesn't ipso facto make you a better photographer. However there is nothing less legitimate about enjoying collecting or buying and selling etc. who are you to say that the only folks with any legitimacy are those who make great images.

Agree, but you must remember the source. These are usually the same people who criticize other posters for being gearheads, insisting that skill is more important than the camera. There is irony in a person claiming gear isn't important when they are holding a modern marvel of engineering in their hands, still there is no reasoning with them.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 17,676
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
1

DaveOl wrote:

If someone was giving me the camera and lens, I would rather have the Leica. Since no one is going to give it to me, I would rather buy the Sony A7 and Sony/Zeiss lens.

There you go !

I'd rather drive a BMW but choose to buy a Ford.

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