Should Panasonic add a Minimum Shutter Duration setting to the GH4?

digitalphotographer wrote:

Why not stop at GX7 and GM1? The "mirrorless camera of the year" EM1 should have this firmware fix too. It's a blatant disrespect for photographers to not offer this, unless this is really an engineering limitation that is hardware based.

Oops, it should've said "why stop at GX7 and GM1?"

completely agree.

MayaTlab0 wrote:

digitalphotographer wrote:

Dr Hal wrote:

You are 1000% correct. I only hope that someone from Panasonic or Olympus becomes aware of this post. It is my top desire. I am using the GX7 and the GM1 and would love to have this feature. I have been thinking that these 2 cameras are so good that from this point on I will be reluctant to buy future upgrades...however if the would had minimum shutter speed to a camera, I would upgrade.

Actually, the could make this a firmware update.

Why not stop at GX7 and GM1? The "mirrorless camera of the year" EM1 should have this firmware fix too. It's a blatant disrespect for photographers to not offer this, unless this is really an engineering limitation that is hardware based.

On Olympus cameras the issue is slightly (only slightly) less urgent since the slow flash sync unofficial trick works as a minimum shutter speed (with numerous limitations). But indeed that's something all camera manufacturers should add ASAP via a firmware upgrade.

But when you realise that Olympus has never fixed the completely idiotic menu item "Burst mode + IS OFF" where you have to select "off" to actually turn the IS in burst mode on, while it should be the easiest of all fixes on the planet (just change a few letters in the option's title), you start to expect that it's going to take them a decade to change their auto ISO implementation.

Well, most of the review sites are not making any fuss about this, so camera manufacturers assume users, or at least the majority of users don't care?

I think review sites have been much too lenient regarding cameras' ergonomics in general. To me, for example, the Olympus E-M5 would have been torn to bits because of its god-awful button layout / implementation and feel. In fact I can't think of a single camera I'd give a pass concerning ergonomics / handling / user interface, except perhaps the 1DX post 2.0 firmware (and even then I'd just give it a pass to incite other manufacturers to look carefully at the many innovative ideas it's got in that regard).

I just wanted to bump this thread again because I think I failed to make one point clear.

This minimum shutter speed for Program Priority mode needs to apply to both video and stills. By that I mean whenever you are recording either stills or video in Program priority mode the camera should adhere to the minimum shutter speed rule.

This is necessary especially for 60p video. By default the camera will use 1/60 of a second shutter speed for all wide angle video that is not shot in the creative movie mode. That is fine for 30p video but not the ideal setting for 24p or more importantly 60p video.

What this setting does is guarantee that the shutter speed won’t drop down below the 180 degree rule for 60p video. We want to be able to keep 1/120 of faster shutter speed at all times for 60p video. Ideally we would always want 1/120 for 60p. However, without built-in ND filters you will find that the camera has to use a faster shutter speed in bright light.

If Panasonic reads this I really hope they understand why having this setting apply to both video and stills is so important to many of us. It can’t possibly be that hard to implement. I posted a video like this one for the GF1 shortly after it came out.

That GF1 video talked about how the default logic for the GF1 was not correct. That camera would default to 1/30 of a second in Program Priority mode. The video seemed to have worked because they quickly changed the logic in the cameras after that.

I hope they will change it for the GH4 and not wait to implement it in the GH5. This is missing functionality that should have been in there all along.

mpgxsvcd wrote:

I have been using the GH4 since day 1. Honestly, it is very close to being the perfect camera for my needs. The biggest issue I have is that Program Priority mode with Auto ISO will never use faster than 1/60 of a second shutter duration if you have a wide angle prime on the camera. Here is a video that explains why we need a minimum shutter duration setting for Auto ISO in Program priority mode for both stills and video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jWzbXczUnE

Even if your ISO is very low the camera will simply use whichever is faster of “1 divided by 2 times the focal length” or “1/60 of a second” in Program Priority mode with Auto ISO. If you are using the excellent Leica 25mm F1.4 lens or the 14mm F2.5 lens it will always use 1/60 of a second or slower in low light situations.

The GH4 is excellent even up to ISO 12,800. There is no good reason for it to be shooting at ISO 1600 and 1/60 of a second if it could be shooting at 1/120 of a second and ISO 3200. Even if your subjects are standing still a simple head turn can cause blurring at 1/60 of a second.

Panasonic recommends the Intelligent ISO feature instead of the Auto ISO feature in order to predict motion. However, the Intelligent ISO feature is actually even worse. With the 35-100mm F2.8 lens in low light it will often use 1/30 of a second or slower shutter duration and a low ISO if it doesn’t detect fast movement. At the equivalent of 200mm focal length on full frame 1/30 of a second is absolutely not sufficient even with the in lens image stabilization.

The true remedy for these issues is to implement the minimum shutter duration setting for Auto ISO in Program Priority mode that is found on the LX7 and most likely on the upcoming FZ1000 and LX8. This feature would be easy to implement on the GH4 with a firmware update. The problem is that Panasonic doesn’t think we really want it that bad.

Please watch the video above and let Panasonic know that they should implement the minimum shutter duration feature for the GH4.

You, that you have a Mode, which you can use to control your shutter speed, don't you? It is called "S".

digitalphotographer wrote:

completely agree.

Well, I completely disagree. The Olympus OM-D (even more so have one of the best ergonomics and view finders in the small mirrorless market. The E-M5 wasn't perfect but with the HDL-6 grip, the handling was actually very good. Contrary to Olympus at the same time Panasonic came out with a cameras, which had good ergonomics but awful view finders (GH3 and G6), I would always sacrifice a little on ergonomics in favor for the better finder.

When the E-M5 came out mirrorless was somewhat defined, and that camera was tremendously successful.

MayaTlab0 wrote:

digitalphotographer wrote:

Dr Hal wrote:

You are 1000% correct. I only hope that someone from Panasonic or Olympus becomes aware of this post. It is my top desire. I am using the GX7 and the GM1 and would love to have this feature. I have been thinking that these 2 cameras are so good that from this point on I will be reluctant to buy future upgrades...however if the would had minimum shutter speed to a camera, I would upgrade.

Actually, the could make this a firmware update.

Why not stop at GX7 and GM1? The "mirrorless camera of the year" EM1 should have this firmware fix too. It's a blatant disrespect for photographers to not offer this, unless this is really an engineering limitation that is hardware based.

On Olympus cameras the issue is slightly (only slightly) less urgent since the slow flash sync unofficial trick works as a minimum shutter speed (with numerous limitations). But indeed that's something all camera manufacturers should add ASAP via a firmware upgrade.

But when you realise that Olympus has never fixed the completely idiotic menu item "Burst mode + IS OFF" where you have to select "off" to actually turn the IS in burst mode on, while it should be the easiest of all fixes on the planet (just change a few letters in the option's title), you start to expect that it's going to take them a decade to change their auto ISO implementation.

Well, most of the review sites are not making any fuss about this, so camera manufacturers assume users, or at least the majority of users don't care?

I think review sites have been much too lenient regarding cameras' ergonomics in general. To me, for example, the Olympus E-M5 would have been torn to bits because of its god-awful button layout / implementation and feel. In fact I can't think of a single camera I'd give a pass concerning ergonomics / handling / user interface, except perhaps the 1DX post 2.0 firmware (and even then I'd just give it a pass to incite other manufacturers to look carefully at the many innovative ideas it's got in that regard).

tgutgu wrote:

You, that you have a Mode, which you can use to control your shutter speed, don't you? It is called "S".

I think some people are missing the point of this. Yes shutter priority mode allows you to control shutter speed. That isn’t what I am looking for. What I want is the camera to control the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO between a range of shutter speeds.

I want to be able to take the camera out of my bag, turn it on, and have it ready to shoot a properly exposed shot with the aperture in the optimal position and still use a reasonable shutter duration(1/120 of a second or faster).

“P” mode with Auto ISO will give me the Auto ISO with the aperture in the optimal position. However, with shorter prime lenses it will NEVER give me an appropriate shutter speed for people in low light situations. It will always use 1/60 or slower. I never shoot with a shutter speed of 1/60 or slower so P mode is never a viable option for me.

If I choose a fast prime lens like the 25mm F1.4 with the GH4 I expect that the camera will allow me to use a higher ISO with faster shutter speeds in P mode. Instead it gives me ridiculously low ISO values with completely inappropriate shutter speeds.

I really thought that this GH4 firmware update would be heavily geared towards video features. Adding S-Log, fixing the 96 FPS resolution issue, and improved 4K focusing all seemed like reasonable items that they would add or update.

I was shocked and pleased to see the updates were photocentric. Ironically they seem to follow the video that I posted. I asked for a few features that would help take pictures and videos simultaneously and they appears to be exactly what this update does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jWzbXczUnE

Now I am sure this was their plan all along and my video had no influence on them. However, I really would like to know if they will implement the minimum shutter duration in Program Priority mode. That is essential for pulling the still frames from video like they are suggesting.

Their synopsis of the changes hints that you will be able to set the video settings exactly like you set photo settings. That means Aperture priority mode is out because it won’t let you control shutter speed. With stills and the mechanical shutter you sometimes don’t care what the shutter speed is. However, with video and the electronic shutter you always have to be careful about what shutter duration you are using to avoid skewing and strobing from fluorescent lighting sources.

Shutter Priority isn’t much use either because it won’t allow you to control aperture.

Manual control mode is good if they allow Auto ISO. However, you can’t currently adjust exposure compensation with Full manual controls in movie mode. Therefore, manual mode is not the best mode either.

In Program Priority mode you can adjust Aperture and shutter speed relative to each other and you can adjust exposure compensation as well. That is almost perfect except for Panasonic has chosen to set the minimum shutter duration at 1/60 of second for very wide lenses even if they are very fast as well.

1/60 just isn’t fast enough for a lot of situations. A min shutter duration would resolve all of these issues. I really hope that they implement that feature from the LX7.

Wow I am pretty shocked they still haven't implemented this yet! What is the hold up?

digitalphotographer wrote:

Wow I am pretty shocked they still haven't implemented this yet! What is the hold up?

It could be coming in as little as two weeks.