Should Panasonic add a Minimum Shutter Duration setting to the GH4?

I have been using the GH4 since day 1. Honestly, it is very close to being the perfect camera for my needs. The biggest issue I have is that Program Priority mode with Auto ISO will never use faster than 1/60 of a second shutter duration if you have a wide angle prime on the camera. Here is a video that explains why we need a minimum shutter duration setting for Auto ISO in Program priority mode for both stills and video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jWzbXczUnE

Even if your ISO is very low the camera will simply use whichever is faster of “1 divided by 2 times the focal length” or “1/60 of a second” in Program Priority mode with Auto ISO. If you are using the excellent Leica 25mm F1.4 lens or the 14mm F2.5 lens it will always use 1/60 of a second or slower in low light situations.

The GH4 is excellent even up to ISO 12,800. There is no good reason for it to be shooting at ISO 1600 and 1/60 of a second if it could be shooting at 1/120 of a second and ISO 3200. Even if your subjects are standing still a simple head turn can cause blurring at 1/60 of a second.

Panasonic recommends the Intelligent ISO feature instead of the Auto ISO feature in order to predict motion. However, the Intelligent ISO feature is actually even worse. With the 35-100mm F2.8 lens in low light it will often use 1/30 of a second or slower shutter duration and a low ISO if it doesn’t detect fast movement. At the equivalent of 200mm focal length on full frame 1/30 of a second is absolutely not sufficient even with the in lens image stabilization.

The true remedy for these issues is to implement the minimum shutter duration setting for Auto ISO in Program Priority mode that is found on the LX7 and most likely on the upcoming FZ1000 and LX8. This feature would be easy to implement on the GH4 with a firmware update. The problem is that Panasonic doesn’t think we really want it that bad.

Please watch the video above and let Panasonic know that they should implement the minimum shutter duration feature for the GH4.

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

Do you ever use Auto ISO indoors with a wide angle lens. If you try that you will see the issue.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

Do you ever use Auto ISO indoors with a wide angle lens. If you try that you will see the issue.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Why not just use shutter priority and set it for 1/120 if that's what you want? The camera will then open up the lens to maximum aperture and adjust the ISO accordingly. It sounds as though in your examples you'd get the results you want.
--
Let the light guide you...

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

Do you ever use Auto ISO indoors with a wide angle lens. If you try that you will see the issue.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Why not just use shutter priority and set it for 1/120 if that's what you want? The camera will then open up the lens to maximum aperture and adjust the ISO accordingly. It sounds as though in your examples you'd get the results you want.
--
Let the light guide you...

The issue is that I don't always want 1/120. I just don't ever want it to go slower than 1/120. If I move into bright sunlight it will have to go faster than 1/120 without an ND filter.

I use the bright primes a lot but that requires to to adjust the shutter speed too often when going in and out of dark and bright areas.

The point of program priority mode is that it is almost completely automated. It is intended for situations where the lighting is not controlled and changing rapidly. It still offers some control over aperture and shutter speed but it has enough automation to handle changing conditions. It can't do this effectively without the min shutter duration setting that the LX7 has.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

mpgxsvcd wrote:

The point of program priority mode is that it is almost completely automated. It is intended for situations where the lighting is not controlled and changing rapidly. It still offers some control over aperture and shutter speed but it has enough automation to handle changing conditions. It can't do this effectively without the min shutter duration setting that the LX7 has.
--

Nikon is one of the few companies that implements the auto-ISO well in their mid to upper level dSLRs. Panasonic apparently is not the only company that appears to default to 1/60 sec, I remember in the reviews for SONY A7 and possibly Fuji XT-1, they have the same odd behavior. Is there a technical reason why this cannot be done better or do all the camera engineers go to the same photography school? I don't know, neither can I understand why it was so difficult to enable Exp compensation in M-mode when auto ISO is on.

You and I are probably shooting the same thing most of the time, fast moving kids. I thus use S-priority a lot now with m3/4 cameras since freezing their motion is a far higher priority than DOF (and since the limited implementation of auto ISO).

e1rond wrote:

Does any camera manufacturer implement a minimum shutter setting? I've thought the exact same thing before about how useful a minimum shutter setting would be.

Nikon for one does it even in their entry level D3x00 cameras. You can read the review at Dpreview.

amtberg wrote:

I would like them to add min. ISO (also for aperture priority mode), but I disagree with your conclusion that the gH4 is excellent up to ISO 12800. Personally I would shoot at 1/60 and ISO 1600 in most circumstances over 1/120 at ISO 3200. In fact, in most cases I would set the minimum shutter speed *below* what the camera chooses automatically -- especially with OIS lenses.

If they add a minimum shutter speed and set the default value to 1/60 then it will operate precisely as it does today. The added benefit would be that you could set it faster or slower than that depending on how much priority you put on shutter speed vs. ISO. You could get your 1/30 or 1/15 at a lower ISO if you wanted.

Really this is a no brainer. This setting would hurt no one. It would help some of us based on the posts so far and for everyone else they wouldn't even know it was there.

Why wouldn't you add something that had no down side?

e1rond wrote:

Does any camera manufacturer implement a minimum shutter setting? I've thought the exact same thing before about how useful a minimum shutter setting would be.

Samsung in their NX mirrorless series. I find it extremely useful in A mode.

MayaTlab0 wrote:

G1Houston wrote:

mpgxsvcd wrote:

The point of program priority mode is that it is almost completely automated. It is intended for situations where the lighting is not controlled and changing rapidly. It still offers some control over aperture and shutter speed but it has enough automation to handle changing conditions. It can't do this effectively without the min shutter duration setting that the LX7 has.
--

Nikon is one of the few companies that implements the auto-ISO well in their mid to upper level dSLRs. Panasonic apparently is not the only company that appears to default to 1/60 sec, I remember in the reviews for SONY A7 and possibly Fuji XT-1, they have the same odd behavior. Is there a technical reason why this cannot be done better or do all the camera engineers go to the same photography school? I don't know, neither can I understand why it was so difficult to enable Exp compensation in M-mode when auto ISO is on.

Simply because camera manufacturers are stupid. There is no other way to put it. There is no technical limitation. Panasonic spent resources to allow users to be able to set the camera's auto AF point selection area in a row or column (frankly, is it that useful ?) and not on implementing a decent auto ISO implementation... even though the LX series cameras already had the ability to select a custom minimum shutter speed in auto ISO.

I've said this for a long time : camera manufacturers' engineering teams are brilliant, but their design teams are mostly rubbish.

You are 1000% correct.  I only hope that someone from Panasonic or Olympus becomes aware of this post.  It is my top desire.  I am using the GX7 and the GM1 and would love to have this feature.  I have been thinking that these 2 cameras are so good that from this point on I will be reluctant to buy future upgrades...however if the would had minimum shutter speed to a camera, I would upgrade.

Actually, the could make this a firmware update.

Thanks for your excellent post.

Hal

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

Do you ever use Auto ISO indoors with a wide angle lens. If you try that you will see the issue.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Why not just use shutter priority and set it for 1/120 if that's what you want? The camera will then open up the lens to maximum aperture and adjust the ISO accordingly. It sounds as though in your examples you'd get the results you want.
--
Let the light guide you...

The issue is that I don't always want 1/120. I just don't ever want it to go slower than 1/120. If I move into bright sunlight it will have to go faster than 1/120 without an ND filter.

I use the bright primes a lot but that requires to to adjust the shutter speed too often when going in and out of dark and bright areas.

The point of program priority mode is that it is almost completely automated. It is intended for situations where the lighting is not controlled and changing rapidly. It still offers some control over aperture and shutter speed but it has enough automation to handle changing conditions. It can't do this effectively without the min shutter duration setting that the LX7 has.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

I see, thanks for clearing that up.
I agree it would be a good feature!

The GH4 works just fine for me as it is -- as did the GH3.

Do you ever use Auto ISO indoors with a wide angle lens. If you try that you will see the issue.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Why not just use shutter priority and set it for 1/120 if that's what you want? The camera will then open up the lens to maximum aperture and adjust the ISO accordingly. It sounds as though in your examples you'd get the results you want.
--
Let the light guide you...

The issue is that I don't always want 1/120. I just don't ever want it to go slower than 1/120. If I move into bright sunlight it will have to go faster than 1/120 without an ND filter.

I use the bright primes a lot but that requires to to adjust the shutter speed too often when going in and out of dark and bright areas.

The point of program priority mode is that it is almost completely automated. It is intended for situations where the lighting is not controlled and changing rapidly. It still offers some control over aperture and shutter speed but it has enough automation to handle changing conditions. It can't do this effectively without the min shutter duration setting that the LX7 has.
--
GH4, GH3(For Sale), and Full Spectrum GF1 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH3 Tips and Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMdxoGbNXU

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH3, GH2, GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

I see, thanks for explaining. I agree it'd be a great feature.
--
Let the light guide you...

mpgxsvcd wrote:

Really this is a no brainer. This setting would hurt no one. It would help some of us based on the posts so far and for everyone else they wouldn't even know it was there.

Why wouldn't you add something that had no down side?

One downside is potentially the "everyone else" that you mentioned above who doesn't know how to use this feature may accidentally have it turned on and all their pictures would either come out unsharp (setting minimum SS too slow) or too noisy (setting minimum SS to high)?

Dr Hal wrote:

You are 1000% correct. I only hope that someone from Panasonic or Olympus becomes aware of this post. It is my top desire. I am using the GX7 and the GM1 and would love to have this feature. I have been thinking that these 2 cameras are so good that from this point on I will be reluctant to buy future upgrades...however if the would had minimum shutter speed to a camera, I would upgrade.

Actually, the could make this a firmware update.

Why not stop at GX7 and GM1? The "mirrorless camera of the year" EM1 should have this firmware fix too. It's a blatant disrespect for photographers to not offer this, unless this is really an engineering limitation that is hardware based.

Well, most of the review sites are not making any fuss about this, so camera manufacturers assume users, or at least the majority of users don't care?