What is "Foveon Blue"?

For PicOne, the SD10 can do the "Foveon Blue" too, for example http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/image/34322272

I had many 'intense' blue skies with the SD10, even in Washington, DC light. Out west, skies could be spectacularly blue... without a polarizer! First, I recall many people complained that those skies weren't 'real' then when the SD14 came out and the skies toned down, people complained that the skies weren't blue enough LOL. The "Foveon Blue" setting is something recent in SPP which may (or may not) emulate that intense blue.

One of the classic "Foveon Blue" shots for me is this early SD9 photo

http://www.pbase.com/sphomphanh/image/14167857/large

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

I bought an SD9 with the original 1.0 firmware, and the skies were very similar to your photo, where skies were more magenta. I don't have a Merrill camera, so I don't know what the Foveon Blue does in practice, but it should be more like this:

It still has some magenta in the skies in this photo

John.

In my experience with the DP3M  FOV Blue really snaps-up the blue sky, but it also throws a lot of yellow around.  I haven't had the time to figure out if there's a way around the yellow.  This might work for some images but not all.  It's a bit confusing though as it treats clouds OK but turns snow yellow...not a good look.

FOVBlue

FOVBlue

PicOne wrote:

SandyF wrote:

For PicOne, the SD10 can do the "Foveon Blue" too, for example http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/image/34322272

Coincidentally, one of the other very few pictures I think I used the FOV Blue setting on, was also in SF area:

I had many 'intense' blue skies with the SD10, even in Washington, DC light. Out west, skies could be spectacularly blue... without a polarizer! First, I recall many people complained that those skies weren't 'real' then when the SD14 came out and the skies toned down, people complained that the skies weren't blue enough LOL. The "Foveon Blue" setting is something recent in SPP which may (or may not) emulate that intense blue.

So if I got it right, Foveon Blue was what you used to get when using what was probably called the "standard" setting on the SD9 and SD10?   Did those cameras have a neutral setting?

There are no 'standard' or 'neutral' settings on the SD9 & SD10, ie no colormodes; just pick your white balance. I usually used the SD10 in sunlight/daylight wb, very nice, without tending to yellow up as much as I find the SD14 and even DP2Merrill do in sunlight wb. As a generality, the only color occasionally a bit off could be intense reds, with the SD10 they can end up pink. I have some early pink ishcaboose shots on pbase (archival) in my SD10 gallery.
Another btw, the SD9 and SD10 only produced RAW, which is why we early or relatively early Sigma/Foveon users use RAW primarily and SPP generally. I learned everything about processing through SPP, starting 2004. Others here 2002; I recall the earliest commercial SD9 was available December 2002 I met Dick Merrill using one in October 2002 I have an 8x10 he took of me and printed at the conference. It seemed almost magic to produce and print such a photo in moments. At our conference in November 2001 at San Francisco, Foveon was still showing their prism (not CMOS sensor) based camera. I met Dick Merrill and Carver Mead then.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

Also curious, did the old SD9 and SD10 usually throw off the yellows in the same manner the Merrill's emulated Fov Blue mode does?

SandyF wrote:

PicOne wrote:

SandyF wrote:

For PicOne, the SD10 can do the "Foveon Blue" too, for example http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/image/34322272

Coincidentally, one of the other very few pictures I think I used the FOV Blue setting on, was also in SF area:

I had many 'intense' blue skies with the SD10, even in Washington, DC light. Out west, skies could be spectacularly blue... without a polarizer! First, I recall many people complained that those skies weren't 'real' then when the SD14 came out and the skies toned down, people complained that the skies weren't blue enough LOL. The "Foveon Blue" setting is something recent in SPP which may (or may not) emulate that intense blue.

So if I got it right, Foveon Blue was what you used to get when using what was probably called the "standard" setting on the SD9 and SD10?   Did those cameras have a neutral setting?

There are no 'standard' or 'neutral' settings on the SD9 & SD10, ie no colormodes; just pick your white balance. I usually used the SD10 in sunlight/daylight wb, very nice, without tending to yellow up as much as I find the SD14 and even DP2Merrill do in sunlight wb. As a generality, the only color occasionally a bit off could be intense reds, with the SD10 they can end up pink. I have some early pink ishcaboose shots on pbase (archival) in my SD10 gallery.
Another btw, the SD9 and SD10 only produced RAW, which is why we early or relatively early Sigma/Foveon users use RAW primarily and SPP generally. I learned everything about processing through SPP, starting 2004. Others here 2002; I recall the earliest commercial SD9 was available December 2002 I met Dick Merrill using one in October 2002 I have an 8x10 he took of me and printed at the conference. It seemed almost magic to produce and print such a photo in moments. At our conference in November 2001 at San Francisco, Foveon was still showing their prism (not CMOS sensor) based camera. I met Dick Merrill and Carver Mead then.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

Also curious, did the old SD9 and SD10 usually throw off the yellows in the same manner the Merrill's emulated Fov Blue mode does?

No, see above.
PS: My SD10 and SD9 work fine. The main reason I seldom shoot with them is their WEIGHT and heavy shutter, which causes me to 'wobble' as I put it, move causing motion blur. The screen is also historically small compared with any later camera.

It's completely reproducible by converting to Lab mode, and make the b layer more of an S curve. My example didn't have any yellows in it, and it was from an Sd9, not a Merrill conversion to Foveon Blue.

'Blue' skies vary tremendously, not just from horizon to zenith, but according to temperature, altitude, latitude, time of year, atmospheric conditions etc. I've found my DP1 to be pretty good at all of the variations with which I've presented it!

PicOne, no colormodes are available with the older cameras. Definitely not the SD9 and SD10. I just checked some old DP1 and DP2 X3F RAWs. No colormodes on the original DP1, but yes for the original DP2. So that seems to be the camera for which they were introduced. The DP1 and DP2 came after the SD14, so I assume no colormodes for SD14, but I have no RAWs to check on this computer. Yes for SD15 and all the Merrill cameras. For my cameras, the order of release is
SD9
SD10
SD14
DP1
DP2
SD15
DP2Merrill
One can fill in the s, x, SD1, other Merrill releases (those cameras I don't have). So again, colormodes seem to begin with the original DP2. FWIW I tend to use standard and landscape primarily, neutral sometimes and vivid occasionally. I haven't tried Foveon Blue often.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)
added: I found a SD14 X3F on this computer.... colormodes are not supported.

While Sandy was typing, I found this recent SD9 shot and opened it in SPP 5.5.3

Working space is ProPhoto, so ignore the color-picker numbers as to color accuracy vs. Macbeth

Color Mode is grayed out

Just took this SD9 LO-res shot of my sky at about 8am local solar time:

Sunlight WB, no adjustments at all.

I do find that messing with various WB settings and the exposure comp. gives you almost any 'Foveon Blue' you want and, if you like a little purple tinge, open it in FastStone Viewer instead!

Which leads me to ask if 'Foveon Blue' has ever been defined in device-independent terms such as XYZ, Lab, Luv, etc?

And what is the correct WB for a blue sky?

JohnLindroth wrote:

I bought an SD9 with the original 1.0 firmware, and the skies were very similar to your photo, where skies were more magenta . . . <>

Indeed, John, as we know, the processing makes quite a difference. See below for SPP 3.5 versus FastStone Viewer (which uses dcraw):

Won't insult our intelligence by saying which is which . . .