Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Started May 24, 2014 | Discussions
brandrx Forum Pro • Posts: 28,337
Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Hi folks,

FWIW: I noticed that at BHPhotovideo.com you can now narrow the DSLR lenses down to Full Frame (FF) or APS-C lenses.

Full Frame (FF) - 50 lenses for Pentax

APS-C - 57 lenses for Pentax

Cheers.

Ron

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JeffAHayes
JeffAHayes Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

MANY thanks for this post, Ron!

For the first time, not only am I able to see EVERY SINGLE LENS currently available in the K mount, I'm also able to see them separated by APS-C only vs. FF compatible.

This is excellent! For those of us who're anticipating the likelihood Ricoh/Pentax WILL come out with a FF camera some time in the near future, it can better help us make decisions when buying lenses, as we can see which ones will be FF compatible, since those lenses also work just FINE on APS-C cameras. Some of us already have a few such lenses (such as the Sigma 50-500, or the Pentax F 2.8 100mm Macro -- one of only a half dozen lenses in the current Pentax line that IS FF compatible, and one of only two or three that is a lens DEVELOPED since Pentax went digital-only that is FF compatible).

Based on a few factors (including the fact that for a brief time a year or two ago there were WARNINGS on Pentax's lens page under all the DA* lenses that they would VIGNETTE on a FF camera), I feel certain a FF camera is on the horizon. That makes it much more of a debate whether or not to buy an APS-C-ONLY K-mount lens, or one that's FF compatible. Unless it's a bargain lens (the Sigma 18-250 is an example -- especially now that it's down to $349), or something I just HAVE TO HAVE, I think I'll "err" on the side of a likely future with any lens purchases I make from now on.

One thing I feel will seal the deal as to whether Ricoh/Pentax is planning to release a FF camera will be if the new DA* lens on the "road map" is FF compatible. If it is, I think we will KNOW FOR SURE. Of course it's entirely possible if that's the case that the lens and the FF camera will both be released together at Photokina in the fall.

Jeff

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robbo d Senior Member • Posts: 2,681
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Not being familiar with the site in question, I went into the link and all brands exhibit the same choice. Perhaps this is just something new that BHP wanted to do for all their camera brands ?

Not wanting to pour cold water over speculation, but is it just them being helpful to everyone?

I stand to be corrected.........as much as a FF option would be welcomed by many and an option for me also. Just don't want to get excited over purely innocent changes

OP brandrx Forum Pro • Posts: 28,337
Jeff...

JeffAHayes wrote:

MANY thanks for this post, Ron!

For the first time, not only am I able to see EVERY SINGLE LENS currently available in the K mount, I'm also able to see them separated by APS-C only vs. FF compatible.

This is excellent! For those of us who're anticipating the likelihood Ricoh/Pentax WILL come out with a FF camera some time in the near future, it can better help us make decisions when buying lenses, as we can see which ones will be FF compatible, since those lenses also work just FINE on APS-C cameras. Some of us already have a few such lenses (such as the Sigma 50-500, or the Pentax F 2.8 100mm Macro -- one of only a half dozen lenses in the current Pentax line that IS FF compatible, and one of only two or three that is a lens DEVELOPED since Pentax went digital-only that is FF compatible).

Based on a few factors (including the fact that for a brief time a year or two ago there were WARNINGS on Pentax's lens page under all the DA* lenses that they would VIGNETTE on a FF camera), I feel certain a FF camera is on the horizon. That makes it much more of a debate whether or not to buy an APS-C-ONLY K-mount lens, or one that's FF compatible. Unless it's a bargain lens (the Sigma 18-250 is an example -- especially now that it's down to $349), or something I just HAVE TO HAVE, I think I'll "err" on the side of a likely future with any lens purchases I make from now on.

One thing I feel will seal the deal as to whether Ricoh/Pentax is planning to release a FF camera will be if the new DA* lens on the "road map" is FF compatible. If it is, I think we will KNOW FOR SURE. Of course it's entirely possible if that's the case that the lens and the FF camera will both be released together at Photokina in the fall.

Hi Jeff,

See the thread I just now started.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53732941

Ron

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Holger Bargen Senior Member • Posts: 2,835
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Hope there ist a reason behind for this separation

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OP brandrx Forum Pro • Posts: 28,337
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

robbo d wrote:

Not being familiar with the site in question, I went into the link and all brands exhibit the same choice. Perhaps this is just something new that BHP wanted to do for all their camera brands ?

Not wanting to pour cold water over speculation, but is it just them being helpful to everyone?

I stand to be corrected.........as much as a FF option would be welcomed by many and an option for me also. Just don't want to get excited over purely innocent changes

This is something that was started by BHPhotovideo.com in the last day or so.

You are welcome to take it however you want to take it.

You getting excited or not is of no concern to me.

Ron

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Ron - 'We don't have time to go take pics this afternoon Carl.'
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SirSeth
SirSeth Veteran Member • Posts: 9,946
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses
2

I don't believe we can read anything into how this change at B&H corresponds with Ricoh's plans.

Personally I believe that if Ricoh tries to compete in the FF arena that means they would shave off enthusiast DSLRs as Canon and Nikon have done so as not to compete with their new FF. At least they would price down and cut corners on the model following the K3 so as not to compete against themselves. They would probably also lack the resources to update the questionably flaky SDM motors and the crop sensor lens line would suffer future development. Is this really what you all want? Let Canon and Nikon have FF and Pentax can continue to make the most advanced, best featured, semi-professional enthusiast APS-C camera made.

Cheers,

Seth

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OP brandrx Forum Pro • Posts: 28,337
Holger...

Holger Bargen wrote:

Hope there ist a reason behind for this separation

Hi Holger,

This was just started by BHPhotovideo.com and applies to all brands of DSLR lenses. So, I wouldn't take it to mean anything other than what it is.

Ron

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Ron - 'We don't have time to go take pics this afternoon Carl.'
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'Keep your eyes looking forward. However, glance back now and then to see where you've come from. It will put a smile on your face.' ~ brandrx

Petroglyph
Petroglyph Veteran Member • Posts: 6,052
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Interesting - They're also the folks who've said June 15th on the K-mount 18-35 Sigma I believe.

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robbo d Senior Member • Posts: 2,681
clarify....

Apologies, my response was more so to Jeff. He seemed to have jumped on the potential for Pentax FF ....... perhaps you can help me out here..... do i gather correctly that it's just a new function that has been added to all brands and youare merely pointing out the new (helpful) feature rather than surmising an imminent announcement from Pentax ?

I could see some looking at this as such and starting a new FF thread.......

JeffAHayes
JeffAHayes Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Petroglyph wrote:

Interesting - They're also the folks who've said June 15th on the K-mount 18-35 Sigma I believe.

Hmmmmmm, I'll see it when I believe it (sic). Been saying "pre-order" for MONTHS, now. I'm waiting until those of you with pre-orders in HAVE THEM IN YOUR STICKY LITTLE FINGERS and can report back to the rest of us how well they perform. THEN I'll see about plunking down MY $800. 

Then again, with all these pre-orders, there might be a BACK-ORDER issue at that point, but I've always said patience is a virtue, so I can wait, while I peruse all the beautiful images those of you who pre-ordered post here on the forum.

Jeff

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OP brandrx Forum Pro • Posts: 28,337
Re: clarify....

robbo d wrote:

Apologies, my response was more so to Jeff. He seemed to have jumped on the Pentax FF bandwagon.......

You might have meant it for Jeff but the reply was to me.

perhaps you can help me out here..... do i gather correctly that it's just a new function that has been added to all brands and youare merely pointing out the new (helpful) feature rather than surmising an imminent announcement from Pentax ? 

As I wrote in the OP, "FWIW: I noticed that at BHPhotovideo.com you can now narrow the DSLR lenses down to Full Frame (FF) or APS-C lenses." That implies all DSLR lenses. The "you can now" (see above) implies that it was not that way before but it is now. Since this is a Pentax forum the links I provided are for Pentax mount DSLR lenses.

In a nutshell, it is something that is new (in the last day or two) and I noticed it. I then merely pointed out this new feature to forum members.

Cheers.

Ron

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Ron - 'We don't have time to go take pics this afternoon Carl.'
Carl - 'What do you mean? It will only take 1/1000s.'
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JeffAHayes
JeffAHayes Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: clarify....

robbo d wrote:

Apologies, my response was more so to Jeff. He seemed to have jumped on the Pentax FF bandwagon....... perhaps you can help me out here..... do i gather correctly that it's just a new function that has been added to all brands and youare merely pointing out the new (helpful) feature rather than surmising an imminent announcement from Pentax ?

Yes, and robbo, I didn't assume B&H did that JUST for K-mount lenses (didn't really think about it, to be honest, but I certainly wouldn't make such an assumption, considering the BULK of their DSLR sales HAS to be CaNikon and Sony).

That's why I break my paragraphs off like I do, with a SPACE between them. My SECOND paragraph laid out my reasons I think Ricoh/Pentax MIGHT finally be coming out with a FF DSLR, which I see no reason to repeat. My point was that SINCE B&H has now listed its lenses by frame-size compatibility, it will make it MUCH EASIER for those of us who want to HEDGE OUR BETS on the POSSIBILITY of a future FF Pentax camera to decide whether to buy an APS-C-ONLY lens, or one that's also FF compatible when we go to make any future lens purchases, whether they're a Pentax lens, or a Pentax-compatible lens made by Sigma, Tamron, etc.

The fact, for instance, that the Tamron F 2.8 70-200 lens (although that version is no longer in production and the new one is about twice as expensive, it's STILL available in the K-mount) IS also FF compatible is just one more potential selling point for a lens that's also only $800 and has had good reports from a lot of folks on this forum. I just today discovered, as well, that there are not one, but TWO Tilt-Shift lenses in the K-mount via that B&H feature, both FF compatible, one 90mm and F 4, the other 50mm (I think) and F 2.8, from a German company (I think), a name with which I wasn't familiar, but at a steep price, $3,200 and $3,500, respectively, if I recall correctly (those are rough rememberances, the exact prices were close). I also discovered there are a great many Samyang/Rokinon/Bower lenses available in APS-C-ONLY and just about as many, if not more, available in FF compatible for K-mount. I didn't know THAT, either. As I didn't take the time to A/B them, I'm not sure if any (or all) of them were different versions of the same lens, although I'm pretty sure some of the FF versions were different lenses, and it appeared there were MORE FF than APS-C-ONLY.

Who knows if Ricoh/Pentax WILL release a FF camera. A lot of us think they need to ONLY because many non-Pentax photographers (and some who DO shoot Pentax) are starting to not take Pentax seriously simply because they're the only one of the major APS-C makers that HASN'T also come out with a FF camera. Frankly, I think that's a bit absurd -- especially considering the outstanding quality of the K-3, but as the saying goes, perception is close to 100% of reality, which is at least PART of the reason SONY has taken Pentax's place in the magazine ads for B&H and Adorama in the past couple of years.

What Ricoh/Pentax does in the next few months should tell us for sure, one way or another. I'd say we'll know by the end of Photokina, at the latest.

Unlike some, I DON'T think they'll have to abandon or shortchange their APS-C line if they bring out a FF camera. They just don't need to bring out A PLETHORA like CaNikon and Sony have done. Then again, it CAN be argued that Pentax has ONE LEG UP on those three with the 645Z, which SURPASSES a FF camera with its MEDIUM FORMAT sensor. But then again, such a camera is not only more expensive than all but the MOST expensive FF cameras in Nikon and Canon's line, and even then, it's right up there, it also has only two or three lenses that fit it, and THEY are all multiple thousands of dollars, as well, and all except one new one are NOT stabilized (no built-in stabilization on THAT camera, either). So it's NOT a camera anyone's going to be using to go shoot wildlife or sports (plus it's good for MAYBE 3 FPS in SHORT bursts).

So I REALLY DON'T think a Pentax FF camera will be a BAD move for Ricoh, so long as they do it right -- make it a mid-level camera, something around the $2,000 mark, a sort of FF equivalent of the K-3 -- a FF that would KNOCK it out of the ballpark, so to speak, and put CaNikon and Sony BACK ON NOTICE not only in the APS-C market, but in the FF market, as well!

They CAN do it!

Jeff

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TomWret
TomWret Senior Member • Posts: 2,883
Re: Separation of FF and APS-C Lenses

Ron, Kudos to you and B&H, what a great Idea. A good Marketing idea.

Tom W(ret)

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Leandros S Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
This should not be part of FF speculation

since Pentax lenses can be adapted on the Sony A7 series.

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JeffAHayes
JeffAHayes Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: This should not be part of FF speculation

Leandros S wrote:

since Pentax lenses can be adapted on the Sony A7 series.

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No amount of perceived entitlement can replace actual expertise.

It's NOT "a part of FF speculation," at least not from me. RATHER, if anyone bothers to ACCURATELY READ MY POSTS, AHEM, what I said, and what I MEAN, is that by dividing up its lens line this way, B&H makes it MUCH EASIER for a lens purchaser to tell which K-mount lenses ARE FF compatible (some may even still have old film cameras they use occasionally, even), thus making it MUCH EASIER to tell when buying a lens whether it will or won't be compatible in any POTENTIAL FUTURE FF Pentax DSLR camera. Whether one is ever released, or not, is beside the point.

For instance, when I bought the Sigma 50-500 F 4.5-6.3 (sometimes called the Bigma), I bought it for its features as A LENS. When it came with TWO different lens hoods, that threw me a little bit until someone told me that one hood was for APS-C cameras and the other was for FF cameras, as the lens is FF compatible.

By making a lens that's FF compatible, but will still work perfectly well with APS-C cameras, a lens maker has a lens that works for BOTH types of cameras. Similarly, now that it's easy to separate out the FF-compatible lenses from the APS-C-ONLY lenses when making buying decisions, those of us who may wish to "hedge our bets" against the POTENTIAL that Pentax may release a FF camera in the future can make a more informed decision. IF they don't, well, so long as we ALSO make sure we're buying a good-quality lens, what have we lost?

The Pentax-brand F 2.8 100mm Macro WR, for instance, is FF compatible and was introduced only in 2008. WHY Pentax decided to make THAT lens FF compatible but continued to release other lenses that were APS-C only, I have no idea, but I'm glad they did. I own that lens, and except for a whiny autofocus, it's par excellence. When it came out, Popular Photography gave it a score of 9 out of 10 and a Best Buy award (or similar -- I'd have to look at the review again). I had no idea that lens was FF compatible when I bought it, and it doesn't really mean anything to me at this point, since Pentax doesn't make any FF DSLRs. HOWEVER when and if they DO make one, I'll already own at least ONE high-quality Pentax-brand FF lens.

Again, I'm not speculating on whether Pentax will make a FF DSLR, just saying that by dividing its lens line this way, lens purchasers can more easily make AN INFORMED DECISION IF they want to "hedge their bets" for the future.

Jeff

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Joseph Tainter Forum Pro • Posts: 10,064
Re: This should not be part of FF speculation

JeffAHayes wrote:

The Pentax-brand F 2.8 100mm Macro WR, for instance, is FF compatible and was introduced only in 2008. WHY Pentax decided to make THAT lens FF compatible but continued to release other lenses that were APS-C only, I have no idea, --

The DFA 50 and 100 macro lenses were introduced in 2004. The WR versions are just weather sealed, but optically the same. The DFA 50 and 100 were based on the FA 50 and 100 macros. That's probably why they are full frame. It was a shortcut at a time when Pentax had few digital lenses, and needed to get some out in a hurry.

Boz's site has it all.

Joe

Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,643
8 out of 50 are made by Pentax

Rest is mostly Sigma. Then Tamron, Rokinon, Vivitar, etc.

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justin23 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,347
Re: This should not be part of FF speculation

JeffAHayes wrote:

The Pentax-brand F 2.8 100mm Macro WR, for instance, is FF compatible and was introduced only in 2008. WHY Pentax decided to make THAT lens FF compatible but continued to release other lenses that were APS-C only, I have no idea, but I'm glad they did.

This has a simple answer. The DFA100 was originally introduced early on when there were still many film photographers and they needed a macro to cover both film and digital.  Also I suspect the design of a macro lens means there is not much space saving to be done for an APS-C only macro lens.

The current DFA100 macro is the original macro with WR.

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