Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons? Locked

Started May 21, 2014 | Discussions
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70Der Regular Member • Posts: 344
Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

Kasper FC Regular Member • Posts: 238
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes.

If you like the 6D get that, its not that expensive

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daMatrix Contributing Member • Posts: 863
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

But, if you use the images for small print in book and internet the extra IQ is muffled.

I really like the deeper colors and better detail with full-frame sensors, but sometimes it is not worth the extra weight; For instance on hollidays and other long walks for leisure the extra weight may obstruct an inspired view on surrounding (see also  the succes of gsm cameras).

OP 70Der Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

Kasper FC wrote:

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes.

If you like the 6D get that, its not that expensive

I just got a 70D, which I really do like, and am not yet ready for a FF camera, but am considering moving up.

The 6D scares me because on one hand it has probably the best consumer sensor, but Canon kind of purposely gimped certain aspects such as crosspoint focus points, 1/4000th shutter speed etc.

diness Veteran Member • Posts: 3,130
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

I'm surprised you don't see it.  I bet if you owned a FF camera and used it extensively, you would see the difference.  But I could be wrong on that!

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

Yes, you will notice this.  Keep in mind you will need to get closer to things though at the same focal length!

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

This is the biggest difference.  I don't know how much it is in stops, but when I moved from a t2i to a 6d, the difference was dramatic!  If this is something important to you, it is absolutely worth it to move to full frame

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

Yes, I think it has these as well, although this difference wasn't as dramatic for me.

If you have a 70d and really like it and are concerned about the AF of the 6d and possibly other things, you could always wait for the 6d II.  I am guessing (obviously have no knowledge of this) that the AF will be upgraded in the next version of the 6d.  Be prepared to possibly wait awhile, but the 70d is a great camera and if you don't feel the need to upgrade soon, waiting could be the best option!

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24Peter
24Peter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,215
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C.

There is a difference and I would bet 90% of your non-photographer acquaintances and maybe 1/2 of your photographer friends won't notice any difference either under most normal shooting/viewing conditions

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

Yes and sometimes shallower DOF at a given focal length/apeture is a liability.

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

Necessary only if you do a lot of low light shooting. Personally I realize I am always comparing camera sensors tests based on high ISO performance only to finally realize I almost never shoot at high ISO

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

Probably, but not by much and perhaps not enough to justify the jump. On the other hand, this can be significant depending on what type of shooting you do.

I would consider getting one in the future.

If you're in the US, you can rent any Canon/Nikon FF on-line to try before you buy.

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qianp2k Forum Pro • Posts: 10,350
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

All of three a big YES. Get a 6D.

But if you don't care those differences in your shooting areas, don't bother as even today's Canon APS-C is good enough for most people.

Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 42,853
All true, but...

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C.

Sure.

Not sharper for example.

But FF does resolve more detail. Whether or not it's enough more detail for you to see (or care) is another matter all together.

But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

All true. However, if you can't see it, why go FF?

dboreham Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

Careful : the image created by a particular lens doesn't change depending on the sensor size. If you mean that a FF f4 lens will produce shallower DOF than an f4 APS-C lens of equivalent field of view, then yes. (e.g. 50mm@f4 FF vs 30mm @f4 APS-C).

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

Two more:

4) Improved viewfinder experience (viewfinder no longer like looking through a narrow tunnel).

5) Ability to use lenses that have no equivalent in APS-C (e.g. 14mm f2.8, 85mm f1.4, well, almost every prime shorter than 100mm...).

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Rick Knepper
Rick Knepper Forum Pro • Posts: 17,033
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

dboreham wrote:

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

Careful : the image created by a particular lens doesn't change depending on the sensor size. If you mean that a FF f4 lens will produce shallower DOF than an f4 APS-C lens of equivalent field of view, then yes. (e.g. 50mm@f4 FF vs 30mm @f4 APS-C).

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

Two more:

4) Improved viewfinder experience (viewfinder no longer like looking through a narrow tunnel).

FF VFs are no picnic for some of us.

5) Ability to use lenses that have no equivalent in APS-C (e.g. 14mm f2.8, 85mm f1.4, well, almost every prime shorter than 100mm...).

6.) No holes or overlaps in the 3 zoom line-up from 16mm to 200mm.

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Atoche
Atoche Contributing Member • Posts: 677
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

It's all just a simple matter of perspective, eh?

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Joe Mayer Regular Member • Posts: 122
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

Ok, you know the answers to this.  You know these are all "yes".  So I'm not sure why you're asking.  It almost sounds as if you're wondering if you should rather than if you need to.  That no one knows but you.  Rent a 6D or 5D3 for a weekend, shoot it and you'll know if it floats your boat or not and then you'll know whether or not you need it.

Serickmetz
Serickmetz Contributing Member • Posts: 944
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

Yep, Full frame will blow away all the competition for those reasons.  Especially those reasons.

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MisterBG Veteran Member • Posts: 6,557
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example.

Funny, I just got a 70D to supplement my 6D and I could see the difference immediately, to the extent I thought the 70D might be faulty.

After a more considered comparison I concluded that it is just the difference in format.

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Atoche
Atoche Contributing Member • Posts: 677
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

dboreham wrote:

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

Careful : the image created by a particular lens doesn't change depending on the sensor size. If you mean that a FF f4 lens will produce shallower DOF than an f4 APS-C lens of equivalent field of view, then yes. (e.g. 50mm@f4 FF vs 30mm @f4 APS-C).

oh man... Here we go.  there is no " true equivalent field of view" because the perspective is different - not to mention the lens characteristics.  I would say that "one can achieve a similar field of view, but one must realize the effects on perpective.". If you really want to feel this out for yourself, take the same lens and both bodies into the field and shoot them head to head.  I have over and over, and the reason I like FF is the perspective.  I fear I would love the perspective of medium format - something far to expensive for a hobbies like myself.

50mm and 30mm lenses have different characteristics, if you have a 50mm on FF, and 30mm on ASP-C - even though the field of view would be similar, you will see 30mm characteristics to your photograph you ultimately wanted from the 50mm....

but then again I do tend to be a purist, so equivalency is against  my nature .

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

Two more:

4) Improved viewfinder experience (viewfinder no longer like looking through a narrow tunnel).

5) Ability to use lenses that have no equivalent in APS-C (e.g. 14mm f2.8, 85mm f1.4, well, almost every prime shorter than 100mm...).

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NancyP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,240
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

6D is great for landscape, travel - AF is simple, so probably not what you want if you shoot sports.

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gavin Veteran Member • Posts: 6,180
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

Yes to all.

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bronxbombers4 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,387
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

it actually does tend to capture more overall detail

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

yes

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

providing shooting wide open gives enough DOF on FF too

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

maybe a trace (and exmor aps-c has a lot more DR and shadow detail at low ISO than Canon FF)

I would consider getting one in the future.

Timbukto Veteran Member • Posts: 4,988
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

70Der wrote:

I don't honestly see the difference when looking at pics between FF and APS-C. Not sharper for example. But if

1) I could get more depth of field control (my F4 lens becomes one stop shallower for example)

2) I get an extra stop of noise free light.

3) Maybe better dynamic range and shadow detail

I would consider getting one in the future.

The one difference you can't see is probably the #1 difference to me for the following reasons.

The extra stop of noise only comes at shallower DOF with FF.  Stopped down to be equivalent to APS-C and there is little difference in low-light performance.  Low-light performance only *comes* with shallower DOF...it does not have better low-light performance at equivalent DOF.

The better dynamic range and shadow detail is capped off by Canon sensor...it is better but not *worlds* better because of read noise.  The 18MP APS-C's like in the 7D's are a bit bandy and not even that efficient however.  6D is one of the least bandy and more efficient sensors in Canon's line-up.  But if you cared about shadow detail and dynamic range you could seriously buy a refurbed Nikon D3200 for $330 bucks and it'll include LR5.

So the #1 difference left indeed is how much easier the sensor is on a vast majority of EF lenses, many of which are older.  Yet again at telephoto ranges if you do not have the equivalent telephoto focal length for FF and are forced to crop, APS-C can win in sharpness there.

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qianp2k Forum Pro • Posts: 10,350
Re: Is a FF camera worth it for these reasons?

Timbukto wrote:

The one difference you can't see is probably the #1 difference to me for the following reasons.

The extra stop of noise only comes at shallower DOF with FF. Stopped down to be equivalent to APS-C and there is little difference in low-light performance. Low-light performance only *comes* with shallower DOF...it does not have better low-light performance at equivalent DOF.

In theory yes assuming sensors between FF and APS-C have the same design but just different in sizes. In reality you don't have to shoot FF at equivalent DOF of APS-C such as in low-light/evening events. Even F2.8 has sufficient DOF on FF on a stage from distance with 70-200L II for example such as you shoot 6D/5D3 @200mm vs 70D @125mm both at F2.8.  6D/5D3 will win easily at the same ISO such as ISO 1600.

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