Subjective camera preferences.....

I was wondering how many other people out there have had what should be the "perfect" camera, but end up using something else for most of what they do?

As I am sure many readers know, I am an inveterate gearhead about M43 camera bodies.  I've enjoyed the format since my first M43 (an EPL1) 3 1/2 years ago, but I've felt like I have been chasing technology to get the output I have wanted in a camera that I enjoy operating.

Each new technological advance has been welcome; first the improved focusing speeds, then better sensors...but of course, with each new change, something else that I liked about a particular camera body gets altered to something less desirable for my uses.  It's always a tradeoff.....

However, what I seem to be discovering that in amongst all of this camera perfection/imperfection, there are some intangibles that seem to make me want to consistently reach for one camera over another.

Example:  I immediately took to two cameras; one was the GF3 and one was the GH2.  The GF3 felt wonderful in hand, but I ended up not using it much due to it having the old sensor, which frustrated me. I loved the GH2.  It was just at the upper edge of the size I like, but still within it.  Its down side was the greenish cast to its colors and difficult higher ISO performance.  When the EM5 came out, I was tempted by it for a few minutes, but then realized that there were things about it that would make me nuts (the small focus box thing (which has since been fixed) for one...and the grip...) so I stayed with the GH2.  Then when the GH3 came out, I bought one.  I was a little worried about its size, but I thought it would be ok.

There were a lot of nice things about the GH3 (beautifully balanced camera in hand, solid build, excellent DR), but I found that after I had had it for a couple of months, I started not looking forward to taking it out and using it.  It sat in the bag.  I decided to buy a smaller cam instead, so I got a G5, and sold the GH3. G5 was a perfect size, but it felt so plastic-y to me, and the shutter shock was terrible...so that got sold.  I figured I'd get a temporary M43 until the next gen of Panasonics and Olys came out, so I got an EPM2.  I adjusted ok to it, but I missed having a bigger rear screen and more direct controls.

When the EM1 came out, I thought I had found the perfect combo.  Great EVF, excellent performance, beautiful color rendition, IBIS, terrific build quality, and a nice grip.  So, I bought one.  It's a great camera.  However, when I reach for the bag, it's not the one that goes with me now.  I got a GM1 a few months ago as my second body, and even with its lack of direct controls, I was enjoying using it more than the EM1!  So, I started thinking that maybe a slightly lighter, slightly smaller camera with the UI I preferred would make more sense...and I bought a GX7 to try.  Of course, the first two GX7s I got were defective, so I figured that was that.  However, a good buy on one came around and I got a third.

I've had the GX7 now for about three weeks...and the EM1 stays in the back up bag at home, and the GX7 goes with me.  Even though the EM1 has a vastly superior viewfinder, and better IBIS, and the GX7 for sure has some quirks, I am just more comfortable using the GX7.  It is FAR from a perfect camera, but in three weeks, it seems have been able to become more invisible in my hands than the EM1 has after six months of use. Even after carefully programming the buttons and dials on the EM1 to work the way I want, I still get tripped up by its operation......and this is after using the Oly menu system for over a year (between the EPM2 and the EM1).  I think the Panasonic UI might just be too deeply ingrained in my brain at this point, perhaps....

I just think this whole thing is curious.  I suppose it's not a bad thing in a way....the one thing that has gotten very clear after this last round of camera experimenting for me is that the IQ of the most recent sensored M43 bodies is remarkably close between them all.  So, at least that factor in the equation of what camera to use is considerably reduced from earlier generation cameras. I just find it kind of strange that I am more comfortable with a camera with lots of quirks and a few significant flaws than a really solid and well thought out high level body.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

-J

So that's why so many m4/3 were sold!  I can relate, having had a G2, GH2, G5, EM5 and EM1.  Among them I only felt connected to the GH2 and after some time, the EM1.  The Panasonic interface is without doubt better, but I now find my EM1 indispensable having programmed mysets for how I shoot.

I really wonder when camera manufacturers catch on to the intuitive approach of ios and android, rather than the cumbersome menu systems.

Bob G

jalywol wrote:

I was wondering how many other people out there have had what should be the "perfect" camera, but end up using something else for most of what they do?

As I am sure many readers know, I am an inveterate gearhead about M43 camera bodies. I've enjoyed the format since my first M43 (an EPL1) 3 1/2 years ago, but I've felt like I have been chasing technology to get the output I have wanted in a camera that I enjoy operating.

Each new technological advance has been welcome; first the improved focusing speeds, then better sensors...but of course, with each new change, something else that I liked about a particular camera body gets altered to something less desirable for my uses. It's always a tradeoff.....

However, what I seem to be discovering that in amongst all of this camera perfection/imperfection, there are some intangibles that seem to make me want to consistently reach for one camera over another.

Example: I immediately took to two cameras; one was the GF3 and one was the GH2. The GF3 felt wonderful in hand, but I ended up not using it much due to it having the old sensor, which frustrated me. I loved the GH2. It was just at the upper edge of the size I like, but still within it. Its down side was the greenish cast to its colors and difficult higher ISO performance. When the EM5 came out, I was tempted by it for a few minutes, but then realized that there were things about it that would make me nuts (the small focus box thing (which has since been fixed) for one...and the grip...) so I stayed with the GH2. Then when the GH3 came out, I bought one. I was a little worried about its size, but I thought it would be ok.

There were a lot of nice things about the GH3 (beautifully balanced camera in hand, solid build, excellent DR), but I found that after I had had it for a couple of months, I started not looking forward to taking it out and using it. It sat in the bag. I decided to buy a smaller cam instead, so I got a G5, and sold the GH3. G5 was a perfect size, but it felt so plastic-y to me, and the shutter shock was terrible...so that got sold. I figured I'd get a temporary M43 until the next gen of Panasonics and Olys came out, so I got an EPM2. I adjusted ok to it, but I missed having a bigger rear screen and more direct controls.

When the EM1 came out, I thought I had found the perfect combo. Great EVF, excellent performance, beautiful color rendition, IBIS, terrific build quality, and a nice grip. So, I bought one. It's a great camera. However, when I reach for the bag, it's not the one that goes with me now. I got a GM1 a few months ago as my second body, and even with its lack of direct controls, I was enjoying using it more than the EM1! So, I started thinking that maybe a slightly lighter, slightly smaller camera with the UI I preferred would make more sense...and I bought a GX7 to try. Of course, the first two GX7s I got were defective, so I figured that was that. However, a good buy on one came around and I got a third.

I've had the GX7 now for about three weeks...and the EM1 stays in the back up bag at home, and the GX7 goes with me. Even though the EM1 has a vastly superior viewfinder, and better IBIS, and the GX7 for sure has some quirks, I am just more comfortable using the GX7. It is FAR from a perfect camera, but in three weeks, it seems have been able to become more invisible in my hands than the EM1 has after six months of use. Even after carefully programming the buttons and dials on the EM1 to work the way I want, I still get tripped up by its operation......and this is after using the Oly menu system for over a year (between the EPM2 and the EM1). I think the Panasonic UI might just be too deeply ingrained in my brain at this point, perhaps....

I just think this whole thing is curious. I suppose it's not a bad thing in a way....the one thing that has gotten very clear after this last round of camera experimenting for me is that the IQ of the most recent sensored M43 bodies is remarkably close between them all. So, at least that factor in the equation of what camera to use is considerably reduced from earlier generation cameras. I just find it kind of strange that I am more comfortable with a camera with lots of quirks and a few significant flaws than a really solid and well thought out high level body.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

-J

Indeed.

I find the Em5 probably the most reliable camera I own.

And what can “reliable” be a synonym for? Boring?

Subsequently I’m using it maybe 5%-10% of the time and enjoying the X-Pro1 and DP-1 by far and away most of the time. The Fuji system certainly has some issues with regards to RAW processing but the glass is simply incredible, and the DP-1 is an utter joke as a camera - except insofar as it’s capable of the most detailed photos this side of any Medium Format.

Despite, or possibly because of these quirks I tend to grab these babies instead of the m43 and find the output very satisfying.

However, for an interchangeable lightweight kit for hiking, it can’t be beaten.

I find its the same with a lot of my tools, I find one that fits my hand and the way I like to work and that becomes my "go to" tool, even if I have purchased newer / "better ones" (thinking about it, I'm the same with shoes, loads of new pairs but its the old comfortable ones that seem to end up on my feet )

Moving on to my cameras, I've ended up with the EM-5 and EM-1 for a similar reason, its not the tech spec (although obviously if they didn't achieve the quality I wanted they wouldn't be in my bag) but the fact that, particularly with the EM-1 + grip, it fits my hand and is so "comfortable" to use that I don't think about it

I've got their via canon DSLR's and the early Panasonic m4/3rds, each of which had its strong points but it just so happens that the EM's are my "Comfy Shoes" when it comes to cameras

jalywol wrote:

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

-J

Umm, yes. But different. I try (don't always succeed) to get the maximum lifetime from every bit of tech I buy. For example, I've only owned 3 mobile phones since 1994.

My first job as a kid was working for a farmer, who taught me to care for tools, and also explained that the time spent looking for the perfect tool usually wasted more time than simply using what you had at hand.

When I started hunting, I read somewhere the saying "beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it." So I have a rabbit rifle, a shotgun, and a deer rifle. My friend has probably 5 of each...I usually get more game than he does.

I've been a bit more frenetic with cameras. Been digital since my first kid was born in 2001. Had 3 Panasonic compacts (drowned 1, another stolen), an Olympus E-PL1 for 3 years, and bought an Olympus E-M1 early this year. Not because I was unhappy with the IQ of the E-PL1, but because my son is now a very good rugby player, so I wanted something with predictive AF. Very happy with it so far, I guess I get about 60% of C-AF action shots in perfect focus.

I guess what I am trying to say is that a subjective preference is influenced by use and familiarity. Use something long enough, it will feel right. Often folks give up on something too soon, because it feels "different" to what they're used too, which they might translate as feeling "wrong". Never thought I would enjoy driving an automatic Yank Tank (started out with an MG Midget), but I love my GMC Sierra at the moment!

But then, I'm still with my first wife after 22 years, so what would I know....

Cheers,

Tom

DonTom wrote:

But then, I'm still with my first wife after 22 years, so what would I know....

Cheers,

Tom

Wow.

Talk about thrifty!

I've had my wife for 51 years, though I've far more cameras .I must admit I always wanted the latest model, but I know my E-M1 is going to be around for many years.

Big Ga wrote:

What I want is for one manufacturer to stick all the good bits into ONE body !!!

The frustrating thing is that I can't think of a technical reason why this hasn't been done as yet

Because the camera that, for you, has all the good bits, would very probably not be my perfect camera.

Besides that, I am pretty amazed about the amount of cameras some people here have (had). Makes for a pretty expensive hobby.  Since I started with digital,  early 2000,  I went trough a Canon 10D (still occasionally used), Panasonic TZwhatever compact, GH2 (stolen) and currently an RX100.

Now I am spending way to much time on research and doubt for a new camera. Can somebody please make me an weather sealed EM1 style body with pop-up flash,  Panasonics menus, 5 axis IBIS and the GH4 video?

And the camera that I liked most?

My old and battered (now disfunctional) Practika film camera with its 2 not to good 50 and 135 mm lenses. With an allowance of 8 images a day, otherwise it got to expensive. Manual focus, a nifty needle for exposure, ran forever on one battery, and without metering also without battery. That got me an amazingly high keeper rate, far higher than nowadays. That was in the 80s.

Not that I would like to go back to it, technology is addictive.

Regards,

Merijn

Big Ga wrote:

The frustrating thing is that I can't think of a technical reason why this hasn't been done as yet

It wouldn't all fit in a GM-1 size body!

I miss a viewfinder on the GX1 but not enough to buy the add on (which would probably spend most of its life in the bag).

Mark

jalywol wrote:

I was wondering how many other people out there have had what should be the "perfect" camera, but end up using something else for most of what they do?

"Perfect" camera? HAH! Good luck on that one!

I kind of have the same experiences with the GH2 and GX7, though my only real folly was buying a GX1, when they were dirt cheap, and never really liking it.

I love(d) the GH2! What a great camera on so many levels, but far from perfect. The GX7 is kind of the same, though I don't quite gave the same attachment to it as the GH2.

I tend to think about lenses more, especially since cameras have become disposable electronic devices, and lenses you have for years, maybe decades… but maybe that's just me. With cameras, it's how they feel and get out of my way. My favorite was my Nikon FM2… a 20mm f2.8 and 35-135mm macro zoom. It was dead simple, all manual, no BS. Still have the same kit and use the lenses on my GX7.

Yes - the camera I couldn't bond with was the GH2.  It was the best camera I had, but would favor a smaller sensor Pen at the time.   I reflected on it for a full year before giving in and selling the GH2.

I just find it kind of strange that I am more comfortable with a camera with lots of quirks and a few significant flaws than a really solid and well thought out high level body. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I don't find that strange at all. The experience of using a camera is subjective and in my opinion more important than technical quality, especially now that all of the new M43 exhibit the same level of noise, sharpness etc.

The camera that gives me most pleasure to use is the GH4, not because it is high end but because it feels great to me, the best designed cameras I've ever used. I pick it up in preference to the GX7 or GM1 and use those mainly when I want something smaller.

I've used the E-M1 and didn't like it half as much yet I know many people hold the reverse opinion just as strongly.

My neighbour has a GF1 and loves the thing. Size, weight, performance, it all gels for him. I try to tempt him sometimes letting him use my GH4 or GX7/ GM1.

He could afford any or all of them but none of them feel as good as his GF1. He agrees the swiveling or articulated screens are great, as are the EVFs....he feels the GM1 is too small..nothing is going to drag him away from his first M43 camera.

In the end, humans are hard wired to subjectivity. If someone told me that the E-M1 had half the noise and twice the resolving power of my GH4, I'd be impressed but on picking it up I'd say, "nah, I'll stick with my GH thanks, it'll do".

And the fact that the next person would say the same about a camera I can't stand gives me nothing but pleasure. If cameras were bounded by lens sharpness and IQ I think I'd take up train spotting.

jalywol wrote:

I just find it kind of strange that I am more comfortable with a camera with lots of quirks and a few significant flaws than a really solid and well thought out high level body.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

-J

I had a similar experience some years ago with the Olympus E-5 and the E-P1.

Despite being a full featured camera, the E-5 sat in the bag, while the E-P1 (one of the most quirky camera ever!) brought me back to the fun of photography

jalywol wrote:

I was wondering how many other people out there have had what should be the "perfect" camera, but end up using something else for most of what they do?

As I am sure many readers know, I am an inveterate gearhead about M43 camera bodies. I've enjoyed the format since my first M43 (an EPL1) 3 1/2 years ago, but I've felt like I have been chasing technology to get the output I have wanted in a camera that I enjoy operating.

Each new technological advance has been welcome; first the improved focusing speeds, then better sensors...but of course, with each new change, something else that I liked about a particular camera body gets altered to something less desirable for my uses. It's always a tradeoff.....

However, what I seem to be discovering that in amongst all of this camera perfection/imperfection, there are some intangibles that seem to make me want to consistently reach for one camera over another.

Example: I immediately took to two cameras; one was the GF3 and one was the GH2. The GF3 felt wonderful in hand, but I ended up not using it much due to it having the old sensor, which frustrated me. I loved the GH2. It was just at the upper edge of the size I like, but still within it. Its down side was the greenish cast to its colors and difficult higher ISO performance. When the EM5 came out, I was tempted by it for a few minutes, but then realized that there were things about it that would make me nuts (the small focus box thing (which has since been fixed) for one...and the grip...) so I stayed with the GH2. Then when the GH3 came out, I bought one. I was a little worried about its size, but I thought it would be ok.

There were a lot of nice things about the GH3 (beautifully balanced camera in hand, solid build, excellent DR), but I found that after I had had it for a couple of months, I started not looking forward to taking it out and using it. It sat in the bag. I decided to buy a smaller cam instead, so I got a G5, and sold the GH3. G5 was a perfect size, but it felt so plastic-y to me, and the shutter shock was terrible...so that got sold. I figured I'd get a temporary M43 until the next gen of Panasonics and Olys came out, so I got an EPM2. I adjusted ok to it, but I missed having a bigger rear screen and more direct controls.

When the EM1 came out, I thought I had found the perfect combo. Great EVF, excellent performance, beautiful color rendition, IBIS, terrific build quality, and a nice grip. So, I bought one. It's a great camera. However, when I reach for the bag, it's not the one that goes with me now. I got a GM1 a few months ago as my second body, and even with its lack of direct controls, I was enjoying using it more than the EM1! So, I started thinking that maybe a slightly lighter, slightly smaller camera with the UI I preferred would make more sense...and I bought a GX7 to try. Of course, the first two GX7s I got were defective, so I figured that was that. However, a good buy on one came around and I got a third.

I've had the GX7 now for about three weeks...and the EM1 stays in the back up bag at home, and the GX7 goes with me. Even though the EM1 has a vastly superior viewfinder, and better IBIS, and the GX7 for sure has some quirks, I am just more comfortable using the GX7. It is FAR from a perfect camera, but in three weeks, it seems have been able to become more invisible in my hands than the EM1 has after six months of use. Even after carefully programming the buttons and dials on the EM1 to work the way I want, I still get tripped up by its operation......and this is after using the Oly menu system for over a year (between the EPM2 and the EM1). I think the Panasonic UI might just be too deeply ingrained in my brain at this point, perhaps....

I just think this whole thing is curious. I suppose it's not a bad thing in a way....the one thing that has gotten very clear after this last round of camera experimenting for me is that the IQ of the most recent sensored M43 bodies is remarkably close between them all. So, at least that factor in the equation of what camera to use is considerably reduced from earlier generation cameras. I just find it kind of strange that I am more comfortable with a camera with lots of quirks and a few significant flaws than a really solid and well thought out high level body.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Nice story... and so many details inconceivably mixed in a desperate try to convince yourself that all m43 bodies today produce the same icon... I think you will forget this taste of smoke after a wile that JK will produce this fake Kodak m43 bodies... Please... Do us the favor ---  there are ONLY TWO companies in the market with the best IQ and a clear color signature... and you know them Fuji - Olympus... Maybe you feel more comfortable with a toy GX7 but don't make us laugh because you can't work with an EM1.... LOL

Interesting confession.

As you freely admit, you are a MFT Gearhead, and as one, and in your own words , you take pleasure in "experimenting" with the many MFT gears you've acquired over the past couple of years.

So, you have a bad case of G.A.S. Many here have it. There is no shame in that.

But, really, what's up with and behind , that kind of behavior? It's like those people are always searching for the Holy Grail "perfect camera". I really have to wonder. Maybe behind that, there is a psychological explanation?

And, it's people with G.A.S. that keep the camera assembly lines rolling out new cameras every 4 months. That is good.

Ultimate consumerism.

Enjoy your new camera until the next one comes out that strikes your fancy, and then do it all over again.

I started with a G5, then bought an EM5, mostly because I loved my OM2 back in the day. I liked it, but the bizarre menu system annoyed me, especially switching back and forth between it and the intuitive Panasonic menus.

So I sold the EM5 and a PM1 body I bought for backup, bought a GX7 and am happier. The G5 is for backup and the 100-300 lens. It handles better for me on the G5 than on the GX7.

What would I like in a future camera?  A smaller GX with a better viewfinder and 5 axis IBIS, and a G body with the above GX innards.

gak44 wrote:

I started with a G5, then bought an EM5, mostly because I loved my OM2 back in the day. I liked it, but the bizarre menu system annoyed me, especially switching back and forth between it and the intuitive Panasonic menus.

So I sold the EM5 and a PM1 body I bought for backup, bought a GX7 and am happier. The G5 is for backup and the 100-300 lens. It handles better for me on the G5 than on the GX7.

What would I like in a future camera? A smaller GX with a better viewfinder and 5 axis IBIS, and a G body with the above GX innards.

Could you tell us what exactly in the menu of the EM5 was that difficult for you to master...? I own EM5 and I don't feel there is any special problem with the menu... plus Olympus has one of the best together with Canon quick on screen menu as you press the OK...